Nutrition Losing fat by diet and aerobic cardio, protecting muscle mass

[JonWin]

Hello folks, I want to cut weight. I did have some success with aerobic cardio and diet (McDougall, which I know many here won't like, but I don't eat meat or animal produce). However, it has started creeping back up and I want to lose at least 2.5 stone (5'11 and 15st5).

To speed it up I am thinking of still doing my hour's running or cycling and 20 minutes of lifting (KB C & P mainly) This has enabled me to add a bit of muscle mass. But the diet needs overhaul.

If I drop to 1500 cals a day with the above training is it too much so that muscle will go? Or will I be able to protect the mass as long as I stay aerobic?

 

[offwidth]

Jon,
A couple of questions....
1. What does a typical day of food look like for you?
2. This hour of running or cycling you do; what type of effort is it? Heart rate zones, exertion level, MAF?

 

[pet']

Hello,

1500cals a day + training is a lot IMO. You will be tired quite quickly.

What is your diet ?
I would go for low carb diet around 2500cals a day and MAF method or daily swings

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[JonWin]

Jon,
A couple of questions....
1. What does a typical day of food look like for you?
2. This hour of running or cycling you do; what type of effort is it? Heart rate zones, exertion level, MAF?

I stick by the Maffetone guidelines and aim for the 'top end' of my aerobic level as indicated by the formula (which is 142 BPM). I know it doesn't apply to biking directly but I try to keep HR at that level allthe same. It can be tough but it is also fulfilling. I lift before I do cardio because otherwise I'd be too tired. (I know if affects the hormonal response, etc.)

Food? Wholegrain rice and vegetables. Kidney or other beans as a post-dinner snack if hungry.

I eat one meal per day. I am not hungry much during the day but ravnous after exercise sometimes and as a side-effect of quetiapine.

Thanks for your reply, Sir.

 

[JonWin]

Hello,

1500cals a day + training is a lot IMO. You will be tired quite quickly.

What is your diet ?
I would go for low carb diet around 2500cals a day and MAF method or daily swings

Kind regards,

Pet'

Low carb is not an option as such for my dietary restrictions so it has to be the 'opposite' end - high complex carbs. So lots of wholegrain rice and green vegetables.

Thanks, Pet'.

I did wonder f 1500 may lead to lethargy. I may see how I get on at 200 and if tired go to 2500?

 

[pet']

Hello,

@JonWin

Low carb is not an option as such for my dietary restrictions

Ok, I did not know. I am very sorry

I did wonder f 1500 may lead to lethargy. I may see how I get on at 200 and if tired go to 2500?

I would not drop to 1500 directly. I would first calculate how much I currently eat. Then, I would cut off 200 for example. Then, I would see 3 weeks or so, to see if I feel tired. If so, I do not cut more. If not, I cut other 200. Wait for other 3 weeks to see how it goes. And so on.

Proceeding that way permits to listen body signals, and do not put the body in "stand-by" mode. If you drop calories too fast, it will not have the time to get used to another diet. Go smooth.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[JonWin]

Pet', no bother about the diet - I am, after all, the odd one out here!

Thanks, what I think I will do is try 2000 for a few days and see how that goes and up it if needs be. I think I need around 2800 to maintain this weight so a limit of 2k plus 500+ burned should see me on a steady course.

Thanks again.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@JonWin
You are welcome. Tell us how it goes.

Give yourself time. An efficient diet is a sustainable diet. Losing too fast is the best way to get back everything (and even more) shortly after. Do not forget the pleasure about what you eat : make it tasty, etc... One a week, you can of course manage a cheat meal

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[North Coast Miller]

At 1500 cal veg diet you will need to increase the % of protein to avoid muscle loss.

I like the idea of dropping over time, but not too long at any level. With activity if you drop to 1800 the weight should come off at a fairly comfortable yet encouraging pace. You'll be a little wiped but not too bad.

 

[pet']

Hello,

An estimation of the proteine intake to maintain muscle mass varies between 1,2 and 1,6g/kg of bdw. However, if you are into daily or almost daily physical activities, you can increase to 1,8. If you are about 2 (or even more) it is about muscle mass gain.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Phil12]

My suggestion would be to get a pair of calipers and learn to use them, if you don't have too much loose skin in the measurement areas. Then you'll know what is going on.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Soy, goat cheese with % fat, chicken and eggs are pretty good proteins sources for the ones who want to avoid fat gains at the same. If physical exercise is done simultanesouly, it'd lead to fat burning and muscle mass gain

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[banzaiengr]

I find it interesting that someone who does not eat meat or animal products is having trouble dropping weight. This would indicate to me that you are ingesting more sugar and simple carbs than you believe. (if I'm wrong then please except my apology).

I would cut out all sugar and be very picky about starches. My calculations if you are working out 3 or 4 times per week are that you could lose weight at 2520 to 2940 cal per day. Of course everyone is different. At 25% carbs, 35% protein, and 40% fat you would need to limit carbs to 158g - 184g. That is really not much. Just one large baked potato would contain nearly 1/3 of your carb needs.

 

[Wesker11]

I would not rely on calipers. I would go get a BodPod or DEXA scan every 2 months. This way you know 100% for sure if your diet is working the way you intend it too. Otherwise, you are just wandering about the wilderness without a map as Ferris puts it.

I recently had my diet scheme verified by BodPod and now I know 100% sure I am on the right track. It will give you great peace of mind plus even more motivation once you are making progress. Some of the best money I have ever spent on my training.

 

[Sean M]

I would not rely on calipers. I would go get a BodPod or DEXA scan every 2 months. This way you know 100% for sure if your diet is working the way you intend it too. Otherwise, you are just wandering about the wilderness without a map as Ferris puts it.

I recently had my diet scheme verified by BodPod and now I know 100% sure I am on the right track. It will give you great peace of mind plus even more motivation once you are making progress. Some of the best money I have ever spent on my training.

Curious, what's wrong with calipers? I have been using tape measurements and calipers and taking the median of several measures as THE number, and the trend on all methods is downward progress. And the variation between methods is about 2%, which unless you are going for single digits should be good enough for most people, especially if budget is a concern.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@JonWin
Protecting muscle mass will be above all a matter of protein intake. Then, related to that, 1.6g/kg of bdw can be a good starting point, specially if you do physical activities (either work or sport, even both).

Fat and / or carbs will be used as "fuel". Basically, what you do not have in carb, have it in fat.

To give you some figures:
1g proteine => 4 kcal
1g carbs => 4 kcal
1g fat => 9 kcal

So you almost have a ratio 1:2 carbs / fat. If you cut off carbs, you have to add a bit less than 50% of what you just cut off, but in fat.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Wesker11]

Curious, what's wrong with calipers? I have been using tape measurements and calipers and taking the median of several measures as THE number, and the trend on all methods is downward progress. And the variation between methods is about 2%, which unless you are going for single digits should be good enough for most people, especially if budget is a concern.

If that is your only option, it can provide you with a decent baseline. The others are just way more accurate. Especially when it comes to measuring lean body mass. Bodpod is actually pretty cheap. I found a clinic that gave me 2 reads for 80$.

 

[mprevost]

Drop all liquid sources of calories. Liquid calories are low satiety. Increase protein a bit to preserve muscle mass. Research has shown that higher protein tends to spare muscle mass on a caloric deficit. Your strength in the gym will be the best indicator of if you are losing muscle mass. I would aim for no more than a 500 kcal per day deficit. Chronometer or myfitnesspal trackers or something similar would be helpful.

You can get very lean on low fat or low carb. If you have access to a Bod Pod or DEXA, they would be ideal. Also, bio impedance is pretty good if you can find a GE Inbody device. Otherwise it is pretty poor.

You can do a decent job with calipers if you buy the good calipers. The plastic calipers are pretty bad. You'll have to spend approx. $200 US dollars on a good set of calipers.

I think your approach is on the right track if you moderate the caloric deficit.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@JonWin
It can tend to overthinking but it is also possible to calculate your macros in function of your regular activities. It will give you a base to think about how many calories you can cut off, and the split between proteines (you are not supposed to really cut them), carbs, and fat.

Kind regards,

Pet'