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Nutrition Low carb paleo PWO meal?

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Ryan T

Ryan T

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Hi,

Looking for a little insight into other folks experience. I eat a mainly low carb (60ish grams per day) high fat and moderate protein diet. Partially related to sugar addiction issues and other medical issue. I do S&S fasted in AM and usually eat eggs or sometimes veggie omelet cooked in butter. Occasionally I'll do half a grapefruit with unflavored whey protein shake. Looking for some other options as well.. This AM was the first time I've done S&S and still feel drained afterwards. I know everyone is unique, but how do their folks handle post training nutrition with this sort eating style?

Thanks
 
Is your low carb diet new for you?

I am not on a low-carb diet currently, but when I was on one, it took me a couple weeks before I was able to feel okay (not drained) after workouts. I had to tone things down quite a bit in the first couple weeks and then only a little in the next couple weeks.
 
Hi Bonkin
Low carb high fat has been about a month for me but I started back on S&S just last Monday. I have upped the intensity over the last three sessions, but felt fine until this AM. Eating lunch now.. 4oz of chicken breast and 3 servings of steamed broccoli with butter. I'll see how I feel in 30ish minutes.

Still, any suggestions on post training nutrition would be helpful.. Did you use veggies or fruit, etc...?
 
When I did low carb, I rarely touched fruits, but I ate plenty of veggies - cheese and nuts were my goto snacks. I also don't worry about nutrition timing - i.e. pre or post workout meals. I eat 3 squares and snacks when I'm hungry. I know some folks are proponents of timing - but it seems like too much work for me to bother with - perhaps others will chime in regarding this.

If you are smoked from S&S - maybe back off the intensity a bit and give your body some extra time to adapt. Last time I did low carb for any length of time was when I was seriously into running - I could handle easy (slower) running, but any fast (tempo/interval) work would smoke me fast - so I just slowed it down for awhile (weeks) and eventually my body adapted to being able to perform on the lower carb diet. I know some folks that run 100 mile races and perform just fine on low carb - but others it doesn't work for. You just have to find what works for you.
 
I suspect we're running into one of a couple of things here. Either insufficient keto adaptation, in which case, Bonkin is probably dead on...just back off in intensity for a bit, and let the adaptation take place. Full keto adaptation for normal tdee is about three weeks, but can take up to three months for higher level expenditure. The other option is kind of the same thing, but with a twist. It's possible that the 60g of carbs is knocking you out of ketosis entirely, which means your body needs to re-adapt. While this can be fine for someone that's well adapted to fat metabolism (probably 6 months or longer in pretty stable ketosis), for someone newly adapted, the body typically needs longer to "switch gears", usually two to three days.

I'd suggest "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance", which covers these exact topics: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-...&sr=1-1&keywords=low+carbohydrate+performance
 
+1 to ratcheting back the intensity. I used to feel terrible after I trained fasted. Now I can hit my training hard a few hours before my first meal with no problem. The body takes time to adjust. Until then I would just increase your rest periods, or drop back to whatever you were doing a couple sessions ago.
 
@Ryan T ... You mention a 'medical issue'. We don't need to know the details, but if it's serious enough presumably your diet and exercise are cleared by your doctor or other medical professional?
 
@Ryan T, unless your medical condition dictates otherwise, most people feel that post-workout is a good time to have some carbs. Maybe try to have more than you're having in your post-workout breakfast.

-S-
 
Thanks for all the replies. My medical condition is epilepsy and although I take medication and it is controlled (no grand mal in 15 years) I wanted to explore dietary enhancements as well. Classic dietary approaches and studies have found lots of success with Ketogenic diets. I tried full on metro but I just couldn't make the 20 net carbs a day. More recent research has been done and it looks like low carb, low glycemic index without full blown Keto adaptation has shown benefits(40-60g carbs per day). The mechanisms are still not clearly understood (not have they ever been), however I can say from a purely subjective point of view that I feel more stable and grounded with this style of eating. So I plan to continue. If I get a lot of fiber with those carbs then the net impact will be lower, but I don't know that I could maintain ketosis in the long term. I suppose that may put me in some sort of metabolism limbo where I'm not fully fat adapted, but perhaps not so reliant on carbs either.

This morning I had a whey isolate protein shake with a couple servings of mixed greens, a cup of frozen raspberries, and a tablespoon of MCT oil. So probably around 10 net carbs. I felt better and my intensity was the same yesterday as it was today.
 
@patterner thank you for the book recommendation; I checked it out on Amazon and briefly skimmed some reviews. One of the reviewers seemed to think the book was better suited for endurance-style athletes and not strength. I understand that endurance is strength over time, but what has been your experience with ketogenic nutrition and StrongFirst training?
 
@Ryan T, the advice and experience you'll find here is from people doing keto diets for exercise and body-composition reasons, not a medical condition - please keep that in mind.

-S-
 
@Ryan T That makes sense...in fact the ketogenic diet was originally developed as a treatment modality for adolescent epilepsy.

Yes, the book does deal pretty heavily with endurance, but I find there's a fair amount of carryover for strength, since my experience with maximal force production (not that I *ever* rep to failure or anything :cool:) follows a pretty similar model to what they and some others (Dom D'Agostino, Peter Attia, Mark Sisson, etc) have found for endurance athletes.

Basically, what I've experienced (this is all N=1 stuff, YMMV, etc) is that when I was first adapting, and for probably about three months thereafter, my maximal force production and endurance were down significantly, to about 60% of what they would normally be (this is more than usual which is about 80%, but I was following an *extreme* low carb, low cal, IF protocol). I was literally incapable of completing even one round of the old EtK warm up (squats, halos, pumps). After about three months on that, I transitioned (with some bumps in the road) into my current eating plan, which is still IF based and keto, and in that same time, I've gone from less than one round of warm up, to working in the 24kg on both TGUs and swings (I started with a 12 for TGUs and 16 for the swings due to just not having the energy), so the recover of capacity is quick, once adaptation is complete. I've currently been in pretty solid ketosis for about 8 months (I've taken two full refeed breaks (over a weekend) in that time, with the occasional "cheat" (I hate that term) meal), and I doubt I'll ever not eat this way again. I like not being on what I call the "insulin roller coaster", and love knowing that if I need to skip a meal (or three) because I'm traveling, that it won't be a big deal for me.
 
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