Kettlebell Low-Volume Kettlebell Press Program?

[John K]

Thanks, but I'm asking from the perspective of a beginner. If 28kg were my working weight, I wouldn't mind spending 13 weeks with it to get to 32kg. But my current working weight for RoP based on RM would be 16kg, and my half-bodyweight press would be 48kg. I have a loooong way to go compared to smaller people who would target 32-36kg. I'm 6'6" and broad (would easily weigh 200 pounds at absolute leanest); I think there's an opportunity to quickly establish 24-28kg as working weight prior to diving into 13-week cycles. If I just did RoP starting at 16kg, it would take 6-9 months to reach 24-28kg.

My answer is the same for a beginner. Most of my clients are brand new to training, and that is how I train them.

If you're doing 16kg and it is getting easy, cut the rest. As long as you aren't sacrificing rep quality, that's an excellent way to train. I can do the ROP ladders with a 24kg using a 1:1 work:rest ratio and get an excellent session in, despite most of my working presses being 32kg or 36kg.

If you're dead set on using heavier weights, and you are doing ROP and it is easy, then progress faster OR retest at the next bell and if you get 8-10, restart ROP with the heavier bell.

Alternatively, replace your singles with 16kg in a ladder with singles with a 20kg IF you can press the 20kg with a good single. So a ladder would look like 20kg x 1, 16kg x 2, 16kg x 3, etc.... When 20kg x 1 is super easy, replace the first two rungs. This way you can work in a heavier bell while building volume with a lighter bell.

If you don't have a 20kg, or you can't press a 20kg, or you have but can't press a 24kg then the whole question is moot. Just build volume with 16kg.

Don't be in a rush. If it takes a year to "own" the 28kg, and another year to own the 32kg and the 36kg, cool. If that takes 3 years, cool. Shoot it could take 5 years or 10 years - it doesn't matter. If you're training and finding ways to progress, you're getting stronger.

 

[BillSteamshovel]

Another aspect to the various "take your time" comments above

Recent comment in another thread by Steve Freides ....... treat your strength training like music lessons ........ its a long term thing that benefits from a lot of practice ......... that made a huge impact upon me .... be patient gains will come

Recent comment from my physio ...... "Tendons like the status quo, so change the status quo slowly" ....... this in response to me trying too much too quickly and hurting some tendons.

 

[getterupper]

My answer is the same for a beginner. Most of my clients are brand new to training, and that is how I train them.

If you're doing 16kg and it is getting easy, cut the rest. As long as you aren't sacrificing rep quality, that's an excellent way to train. I can do the ROP ladders with a 24kg using a 1:1 work:rest ratio and get an excellent session in, despite most of my working presses being 32kg or 36kg.

If you're dead set on using heavier weights, and you are doing ROP and it is easy, then progress faster OR retest at the next bell and if you get 8-10, restart ROP with the heavier bell.

Alternatively, replace your singles with 16kg in a ladder with singles with a 20kg IF you can press the 20kg with a good single. So a ladder would look like 20kg x 1, 16kg x 2, 16kg x 3, etc.... When 20kg x 1 is super easy, replace the first two rungs. This way you can work in a heavier bell while building volume with a lighter bell.

If you don't have a 20kg, or you can't press a 20kg, or you have but can't press a 24kg then the whole question is moot. Just build volume with 16kg.

Don't be in a rush. If it takes a year to "own" the 28kg, and another year to own the 32kg and the 36kg, cool. If that takes 3 years, cool. Shoot it could take 5 years or 10 years - it doesn't matter. If you're training and finding ways to progress, you're getting stronger.

Thanks for the suggestion.

For reference, I can actually press the 24kg for an easy single. I also own a 20kg, but I don't quite have the volume to use it as working weight for RoP. That forces me down to 16kg, but 16kg feels like a toy to the point that I don't feel like I'm training much strength at all by using it for high volume.

This discrepancy between the easy 24kg single and the easy 16kg volume is what convinces me that I haven't found my correct starting weight for RoP and could do something else to get up to speed before diving in.

 

[John K]

Thanks for the suggestion.

For reference, I can actually press the 24kg for an easy single. I also own a 20kg, but I don't quite have the volume to use it as working weight for RoP. That forces me down to 16kg, but 16kg feels like a toy to the point that I don't feel like I'm training much strength at all by using it for high volume.

This discrepancy between the easy 24kg single and the easy 16kg volume is what convinces me that I haven't found my correct starting weight for RoP and could do something else to get up to speed before diving in.

How many can you do with a 20kg?

Something to also consider is the weight ladder - 24kg x 1, 20kg x 2, 16kg x 3-5. Rinse and repeat 3-5 ladders. When the 24kg is no longer a "clean" single, replace it with the 20kg for the remainder ladders (20kg x 1, 2; 16kg x 3-5).

 

[getterupper]

How many can you do with a 20kg?

Something to also consider is the weight ladder - 24kg x 1, 20kg x 2, 16kg x 3-5. Rinse and repeat 3-5 ladders. When the 24kg is no longer a "clean" single, replace it with the 20kg for the remainder ladders (20kg x 1, 2; 16kg x 3-5).

I haven't tested it too recently, but I think the 20kg is about a 3RM for me. I probably couldn't sustain 3 reps for more than one or two sets though, so it would be more reasonable to work in doubles as you suggested.

 

[John K]

I haven't tested it too recently, but I think the 20kg is about a 3RM for me. I probably couldn't sustain 3 reps for more than one or two sets though, so it would be more reasonable to work in doubles as you suggested.

If that's the case, it might be best to build ladders with 20kg as the single and then 16kg for volume work, and then as you get stronger start working in the 20kg for doubles. When the 20kg is firmly in doubles territory (e.g. you can do 5 ladders with the 20kg as singles and doubles, and the 16kg for the rest), incorporate the 24kg in for singles.

Remember as well that you don't have to go out the gate with the 20kg for all singles. Build up to 5x(1,2,3) with the 16kg, then start adding in the 20kg for singles as you continue growing the ladders with the 16kg, and if rep speed/quality deteriorates, switch back to the 16kg for the remaining singles. As an example, you get two singles (on each arm) with the 20kg this week, but that second set is a grind, so you finish the remaining 3 ladders with only the 16kg. Next time (or next week), you might get 4 singles - or all 5! or only 1! - with the 20kg.

Likewise, when you start incorporating the 20kg for doubles, you might only get 1 or 2 ladders with the 20kg for doubles, and then you can grow it as you go, remembering that progress is not always linear and you might not get an improvement every week.

 

[silveraw]

there is a test every four weeks.

This is an important tidbit in RoP.
Taking 12 weeks to move to the next bell is worst case scenario. Especially if you are a beginner you should be moving up a lot faster. I doubt you will be spending 12 weeks with the 16kg if you can press the 20 right now.

I also wouldn't use Starting Strength progression for pressing. It is notoriously bad at building bench or OHP. Not enough frequency, not enough volume, and too aggressive in loading. Also near impossible to do with kettlebells unless you have an obnoxious number of bells.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I haven't tested it too recently, but I think the 20kg is about a 3RM for me. I probably couldn't sustain 3 reps for more than one or two sets though, so it would be more reasonable to work in doubles as you suggested.

Any chance you can upload a video??

I've seen a trainee struggle by rep 4,5 with a few adjustments, his first and fifth rep looked identical

 

[Steve Freides]

@getterupper, you've gotten lots of great suggestions here. Having been one of the first to respond to your initial post, I'd like to reply again these couple of dozen posts later.

The most important thing you can and should do first is work on your pressing technique. You won't get that by trying to decide on a program.

• Post a video here.
• Or work with a StrongFirst Certified Instructor in person or online - our instructor search feature will let you see who offers online training.
• Or purchase Victorious, our pressing course by Master StrongFirst Certified Instructor, Fabio Zonin, which contains detailed instructions.
• Or take our Kettlebell Courses. Note that our first course, Kettlebell 101, does not include the press because we think there are other things you should learn to do first. But you could take 101 and then 201 and in the latter, you'd get instruction in the press.

I'll also mention that one of my adult private students, who comes for an in-person lesson once every two weeks, started doing the ROP with a 12 kg bell because that's where he was. And he didn't start his ROP until he'd done several months of S&S and was able to do getups and 1-hand swings with a 24 kg. He recently finished the 12kg ROP and tested with a 16 kg and got 6 reps with each arm, so now he's running a different pressing program but with 16 - the ROP @ 16 kg was another option we considered. But the important point was that it took him a while to dial in his form, and now that he's got it dialed in pretty well, we picked a lower volume pressing program for him for the 16k because I'm predicting he'll go through the 16 kg pretty quickly with his improved technique. I say all this to drive home the point that, even if it takes you a while and a light weight to get your technique dialed in, that will be time well spent and that is a "respectable" process, IMO.

-S-

 

[solarbear]

I would use Strong with 20kg or Giant with 16kg. I have a feeling Strong would progress you to 24 and beyond quite quickly using just phase one and phase two. Otoh if you only have or want to do single bell then ROP.

 

[Bauer]

Thanks, but I'm asking from the perspective of a beginner. If 28kg were my working weight, I wouldn't mind spending 13 weeks with it to get to 32kg. But my current working weight for RoP based on RM would be 16kg, and my half-bodyweight press would be 48kg. I have a loooong way to go compared to smaller people who would target 32-36kg. I'm 6'6" and broad (would easily weigh 200 pounds at absolute leanest); I think there's an opportunity to quickly establish 24-28kg as working weight prior to diving into 13-week cycles. If I just did RoP starting at 16kg, it would take 6-9 months to reach 24-28kg.

Yes, that might be the case.

But as others have written: Just test your max reps with a weight you can handle every now and then and use the right bell for the right rep range.

You are not only training your muscles, but also your joints, ligaments, etc., which usually need more time to adapt. Therefore, the lighter weight phases might be good for you in the long run.

 

[Ege]

I hear you very well as a beginner myself.

I would first recommend running an SF program for a while before you decide on the speed of progress. First time I have read about S&S, I was a bit disappointed about seemingly “slow” progress on paper. I have changed my mind after seeing a 32 kg kettlebell in real life

In my opinion you will easily be classified as a “strong” person in “normal” life, if you run an SF program for a while and you are halfway through hitting any given SF standard.

 

[Sam Goldner]

I haven't tested it too recently, but I think the 20kg is about a 3RM for me. I probably couldn't sustain 3 reps for more than one or two sets though, so it would be more reasonable to work in doubles as you suggested.

Soju and Tuba with the 20k and then run ROP with it.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Thanks for the suggestion.

For reference, I can actually press the 24kg for an easy single. I also own a 20kg, but I don't quite have the volume to use it as working weight for RoP. That forces me down to 16kg, but 16kg feels like a toy to the point that I don't feel like I'm training much strength at all by using it for high volume.

This discrepancy between the easy 24kg single and the easy 16kg volume is what convinces me that I haven't found my correct starting weight for RoP and could do something else to get up to speed before diving in.

How many reps can you get with the 20kg?

I'd definitely second what @Steve Freides suggested..

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