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Kettlebell Lower body strength without a barbell

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Jevgenij

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It seems that for lower body having a barbell is essential. Squats and deadlifts are in general superior to kettlebells, dumbbells and bodyweight exercises, but I'm sure you still can get a strong lower body without a barbell - of course not as strong as weightlifters and powerlifters, but strong enough for a common person. For someone who trains with kettlebells, deadlift alternatives are not such a big problem - swings, cleans and one legged deadlifts are great. For legs it's a bigger problem - there are a lot of exercises that can be done with weights/kettlebells - goblet and front squats, pistols, lunges, split squats, step ups. And there are also unweighted box jumps and hill sprints. But you need more weight to challenge your legs. Someone swinging 40 kg is strong, but someone squatting 40 kg is not. There are different scenarios and the best one is having several different bells, use heavy weights and constantly increase them. But if you have only a couple of kettlebells and they are not very heavy, it's not possible. Are there are solutions and programs for this case? Can the StrongFirst principles be applied to achieve this? How would smart programming look like?

For example my training template generally contains 6 exercises - vertical upper body push / pull, horizontal upper body push / pull and lower body body push / pull For the upper body part there are more than enough possibilites using rings, bodyweight and kettlebells and I have an idea which exercises to use and how to progressively overload them. For the lower body part I'm not so sure. For the hinging/lower body pulling part I just do swings or snatches as a finisher. For lower body I do unweighted pistols or front squats with my bells (maximal 16+24=40 kg) and just increase the reps. It works, as I am weak now, but in a year I plan to be stronger and even if I buy a 32 bell the maximal weigth will not be enough (24+32=56kg). Should I aim to do as many reps per set as possible? And doing lunges or pistols with this weight?
 
You are correct in some ways, to get big gains and big hypertrophy in the legs one needs big weight and the barbell is proven to do this better than anything else. This is also true of upper body as well - KBs can do a great job, but for big mass gains, heavy weight on a barbell is still the king.

However, it is possible to safely disadvantage yourself mechanically and get solid strength and hypertrophic results with lighter loads up to a point. Front squats are a good example, a powerful person on a regular barbell squat cannot do near the same weight with the bar in front. Single front squats with a 32kg will feel mighty taxing. Double squats with 32s = only 140 lbs which is an anemic load for a barbell squat will be extremely challenging. Pistols with a heavy load will certainly generate results!

You can do goblet squats but jump as you come up and catch as much air as you can manage. You will find fewer sets and lower weight still very taxing.

Duck walking with racked KBs is another mean exercise.

You can also improvise with sandbags or similar. At one point in my program I opened up my 100lb heavy bag and stuffed another 20 lbs of sand in it. Slumped over one shoulder it is an awkward bugger and very challenging to do many reps with. Sand loads of 200 lbs or more could be whipped up on the cheap, and slung over a shoulder(s) with a deep squat will do a great job.

I found Hack squats with the spine closer to straight up and down to be crazy challenging with moderate loads, and also provides a serious dose of agonistic/antagonistic activity in the lower legs such as produced by a Bosu Ball.

So ultimately it would be easier to have a rack and bar, but with a bit of creativity you can still give yourself an intense workout, and one that can be taken to the local park or backyard.
 
It's definitely easier with a barbell, but someone who swings a beast and especially is able to perform pistols with it will have an nice looking and very strong lower body.
 
As noted, KB front squats are a great exercise and challenging beyond the nominal load. Double 32s are no joke.

KB hack squats are a very underappreciated exercise although, in the nomenclature of @Brett Jones's recent article, more of a spice than a main course. Hold the KB behind the back and squat down, rolling onto the toes and keeping the torso upright (leaning forward like a ski jumper changes the leverage and makes the drill trivially easy). You can do reps touch and go style at the bottom, or relax in the bottom position with the KB resting on the ground before retightening and standing up.

Push presses or jerks are another way of dynamically loading the squat pattern.

Plus, all the hinge pattern exercise work the legs and hips as well. One of my favorite hinge/squat combinations (courtesy of Dan John) is the double clean and front squat ladder. Without putting the bells down: 1 double CL/1 double FSQ, 2 double CL/2 double FSQ, 3 double CL/3 double FSQ, etc. You can progress these similar to ROP press ladders. Adding those rungs of 4 and 5 can be very challenging, even with 24s.
 
Just remember some key points.

Big muscles don't equate to big or useful strength.

Big muscles are metabolically demanding and require more food.

Also extra weight carried around requires more food and tires the person out faster than someone with equal strength and less weight.

Steve Maxwell discussed this quite a bit in one of his blog posts about leg strength, size and pistol squats.
 
Jevgenij said:
It seems that for lower body having a barbell is essential. Squats and deadlifts are in general superior to kettlebells, dumbbells and bodyweight exercises, but I'm sure you still can get a strong lower body without a barbell - of course not as strong as weightlifters and powerlifters, but strong enough for a common person. For someone who trains with kettlebells, deadlift alternatives are not such a big problem - swings, cleans and one legged deadlifts are great. For legs it's a bigger problem - there are a lot of exercises that can be done with weights/kettlebells - goblet and front squats, pistols, lunges, split squats, step ups. And there are also unweighted box jumps and hill sprints. But you need more weight to challenge your legs. Someone swinging 40 kg is strong, but someone squatting 40 kg is not. There are different scenarios and the best one is having several different bells, use heavy weights and constantly increase them. But if you have only a couple of kettlebells and they are not very heavy, it's not possible. Are there are solutions and programs for this case? Can the StrongFirst principles be applied to achieve this? How would smart programming look like?

For example my training template generally contains 6 exercises - vertical upper body push / pull, horizontal upper body push / pull and lower body body push / pull For the upper body part there are more than enough possibilites using rings, bodyweight and kettlebells and I have an idea which exercises to use and how to progressively overload them. For the lower body part I'm not so sure. For the hinging/lower body pulling part I just do swings or snatches as a finisher. For lower body I do unweighted pistols or front squats with my bells (maximal 16+24=40 kg) and just increase the reps. It works, as I am weak now, but in a year I plan to be stronger and even if I buy a 32 bell the maximal weigth will not be enough (24+32=56kg). Should I aim to do as many reps per set as possible? And doing lunges or pistols with this weight?
Click to expand...


First...welcome to the Strong First forum. When you say "strong lower body" what do you mean? Strong for what? Strength is often a matter of perspective, and is most certainly a continuum.
Do you have some sport or activity you require a strong lower body for? Do you have some specific goal in mind? The reason I ask, is that this information along with basic physical data and history can help anyone on the form in replying to your answer about programming.

That being said however... The general advice you have been given by the above posters thus far is sound. More specific details about your situation might elicit more specific answers.

Again, welcome
 
I used to powerlift and I trained the squat twice a week, one max effort session and one dynamic session. I had very strong legs and could hit a 700lb back squat. Yes, I had a strong squat and big legs however, it didn't transfer over to most activities. Due to a change in my military job I couldn't just walk around weighing 270lbs and lift a ton, my body just couldn't handle the stress. Once I found Strong First, S&S and PTTP I learned I could have functional, strong legs without a ton of back squats. Swings, deadlifts and especially double kettle bell front squats give me all the strength I need to perform my military duties. The great thing about the KB Front Squats is that it makes me be tight, as well it allows me to hit a greater depth. I don't need a ton of weight and if you can multiple sets for reps you will get strong. And the total body tension is amazing.

This is just my take from my training time over the last couple decades. I am very new to kettle bell training and the Strong First methods, there are a lot of people here with a lot more knowledge and are a lot stronger than me that may have much better advice. I hope this helps.
 
It's specific strength meaning either your barbell strong or kettle bell strong.
Does strength from one carry over to the other? Sure it does but to what degree would be an individual thing.
An example would be powerlifter Donnie Thompson being able to squat 1000 pounds, but squatting a pair of 40KB kettlebells can also be a challenge for him.
It's being strong with a specific tool.
There are many ways to challenge your lower body strength with a kettle bell and you've already touched on some of them.
As far as programing it can also be very individual.
You need to research and implement and come to your own conclusion.
 
Agree with ShawnM. I too love strength. But what I've learned is that for most activities that I enjoy doing, strength endurance is more important. For instance, I love skiing. I used to work on getting my 1RM squat up specifically to be able to ski better and longer. Problem was I had to stop and rest quite a lot and my legs would burn after a few minutes. Endurance was my problem. Another thing I noticed is that doing single leg work gave me increased stability. Some years ago I was trying to work on pistol squats to a bench. Even though I wasn't doing full freestanding pistols, the pistols to a bench were enough to improve single leg stability.

Now, I've heard the saying "If you're not strong you have nothing to endure." Yes, this is true to a point. For that reason I would not give up my barbell (I have a home gym). But if you can do 50 goblet squats using the 40 kg, I'd say you've got some decent strength endurance.
 
I missed going to the gym today. This thread got me thinking. I pulled out my 40kg and my 48kg and did single leg deadlifits. Whoa. that was tough. I did 5 singles. I'm pretty sure the first 2 were decent. I noticed on my last rep that I was cheating on the dominant leg by rowing the 40kg bell a few inches ahead of liftoff with the legs and the 48. Not sure when that started.

My 1RM in the dead lift is 335lbs. Here we are talking about 194lbs on each leg. To what degree we can say that is "like" a 388 lbs deadlift I can't say. The Grip and the demands on my back were not even close, but it sure hit my legs harder than a max dead lift attempt and the added stability demands are crazy. If you can find a pair of bells that add to more than 1/2 your max deadlift...

(On a side note my dominant leg was clearly the less stable and strong of the two. Last time I took measurement it had about a 1/2 inch lead, so this is a bit strange. I've got a nagging foot injury on the dominant side. I'm wondering if that is keeping me from loading the foot properly.)
 
offwidth said:
First...welcome to the Strong First forum. When you say "strong lower body" what do you mean? Strong for what? Strength is often a matter of perspective, and is most certainly a continuum.
Do you have some sport or activity you require a strong lower body for? Do you have some specific goal in mind? The reason I ask, is that this information along with basic physical data and history can help anyone on the form in replying to your answer about programming.

That being said however... The general advice you have been given by the above posters thus far is sound. More specific details about your situation might elicit more specific answers.

Again, welcome
Click to expand...

Thanks. I don't have a specific goal - when I say "strong" I just mean "not weak"/"generally fit". I'm an office worker and am sitting at least 9-12 hours per day. I try to stay healthy, walking 10km each day, try to be outside in the sun and the fresh air as much as possible and such things. I also do strength training and the main goal for this is to stay healthy - physically and mentally. Being strong and fit is being self-confident, optimistic, energetic and positive. Being weak is the opposite.

So I just should stick with front squats (and variations like hack sq., goblet sq., jumping etc.) and hinging exercises? And fit the reps and sets to my level and the weights I have? For example do a 3-5x3-5 program (or another program like 2-3-5 ladders) with 5-6RM and try to increase the weight. After I reach the maximal weight I have, I will increase the reps. And then I will buy a heavier bell and start again. Sounds simple. I just hoped, that there is a specific program/template for this scenario. There are hundreds programs for pullups, deadlifts, pressing or barbell squatting, but I have never seen a lower-body-without-a-barbell program. Something like a S&S brother- a minimalistic template that can be combined with different upper body programs.

Why has no one mentioned lunges? Coach Sommer's Gymnastic Bodies programming for legs is progressing from 5x5 pistols to 5x5 lunges with added 1xBW and after that maintaining that strength.

Can it be dangerous to do front squats with different kettlebells, say 16+24? Or is it ok, if I change hands each set?
 
Jevgenij said:
Can it be dangerous to do front squats with different kettlebells, say 16+24? Or is it ok, if I change hands each set?
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It's fine. I'm doing them with 24kg+20kg. If you can do something with single KB there is no real limitation on doing I with two different KBs.

One thing to keep in mind, keep both sides moving the same with no twisting or any other asymmetries. Someone observing your movement from the side shouldn't be able to tell that you are working with different bell. Be aware to the asymmetrical load and move symmetrically - treat it like a single KB Front Squat (also switch sides each set). Greasing your squat pattern with some symmetrical work (Goblet Squat) would probably also keep everything in balance...

TravisDirks said:
(On a side note my dominant leg was clearly the less stable and strong of the two. Last time I took measurement it had about a 1/2 inch lead, so this is a bit strange. I've got a nagging foot injury on the dominant side. I'm wondering if that is keeping me from loading the foot properly.)
Click to expand...

Rooting is kind of a big thing in SLDL (and all single leg work) so I guess you are correct about your injury interfering with the dominant side movement.

have minor hip rotation mobility limitation in my dominant side. Since mobility is a basic requirement form stability ,If try SLDL without warming up properly and clearing my hip it hurts my rooting and make SLDL unstable and awkward. I tried the ROM test with them recently, and if I do them without proper mobilization my ROM is reduced significantly. It shouldn't be that surprising that performing challenging loaded pattern on top of mobility issues is bad for you...

And 88kg SLDL is cool! I have never tried them on the heavy side. I almost always do them in a single-arm-contra-lateral, the demands on bracing/counter rotation/balance are challenging even with light weights.
 
Shahaf Levin said:
have minor hip rotation mobility limitation in my dominant side
Click to expand...
That is interesting. I've been having some stiffness/impingement type feeling in that hip flexor as well. I'll have to spend some extra time on it and see what difference it might make.
 
you can do airborne lunges , they can be load significantly better than pistols :>

Also consider this :

Own 32kg :
press it multiple times
pistol squat it multiple times
snatch it for 200 reps in 10 min
tgu it for string of reps

would you be strong ?
 
I've low bar squatted 220kg x 5 but currently being worked with 2x32kg KBs in front squats.

Positioning of kettlebells and bodyweight during pistols and lunges easily makes up for lack of load and still challenges the lowerbody musculature equally conpared to a barbell. Just might find specific strength of loaded barbell movement might not be there
 
I addressed this in a book I wrote on the classical Kettlebell lifts. For max lower body strength, yes a barbell is the tool. The single best Kettlebell lower body grind is the pistol squat, but for size or max strength, the barbell is the thing.

However, I've found that most people do not need maximum lower body strength. The Kettlebell ballistic pulls (snatch, swing, clean) create a pulling angle similar to a deadlift (though it may vary), and the jerk and push press contain a quarter squat movement. I think that for most people, the leg strength to do high rep ballistic lifts with a respectable weight, and the mobility to do a full squat are all they need. If you can clean and jerk a pair of 24k's for 40+ reps, for example, and can comfortably lower yourself into and hold a full squat, then you may not need more leg strength. If you are a weightlifter, strongman competitor, or some other specialized athlete, more leg strength may be in order.

The only squatting I do these days is pistol squats. Long cycle takes care of the rest, and my legs continue to get stronger. My knees don't miss back squats at all.
 
Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. What I did for the lower body in the last weeks were swings (2 days of S&S per week), front squats (1x per week, 40kg x 3-5 sets) and pistols (1x per week, 3-5 sets, only unweighted). So far it works good. On Christmas I'll get a 32kg bell from my wife and can increase the weights.

On the SF blog there are some Pavel's articles about Selouyanov's slow/fast twitch fibers training.
Quote Pavel, about the slow twitch fibers training:
For the legs it may not be a bad idea. They have a fifty-fity average ST/FT ratio and you might be skewed far into the ST. Your answer could be training like an injured lifter — moderately heavy singles, doubles, and triples to address the neural and psychological components of strength plus light ST hypertrophy work.
Click to expand...
Should You Train Your Slow Twitch Fibers?

I recently read an article written by Dmitry Kasatov and Alexander Grachev. Both are mentioned in Pavel's article. They go even farther and say that for not powerlifting general population, training legs with Selouyanov's ST protocol is everything that is really needed. 2-5 series twice a week is enough. "Legs are mostly composed of slow twitch fibers and if your goal is not winning all the competions, than it makes sense to train only ST".
I'm considering to try it for a month - instead of doing front squats and pistols and continue doing swings.
Has anyone here tried this protocol for legs? What's your opinion?
 
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