all posts post new thread

Barbell Lumbar Training, Rounding The Lower Back

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
I had to look at this for a few minutes to even possibly guess what was going on.

Do you lie across the pad and put the chain between your legs?
I put my feet inside the dip belt, raise the belt somewhere on calves and jump on the stepboard. There's a barbell so weight isn't pulling the legs down, so it's almost like the machine. Barbell too near of crotch though compared to the machine.
 
I put my feet inside the dip belt, raise the belt somewhere on calves and jump on the stepboard. There's a barbell so weight isn't pulling the legs down, so it's almost like the machine. Barbell too near of crotch though compared to the machine.

I need a diagram so I can replicate this in my rack. ;)
 
These days, I keep my deadlift at about 125% of my clean pull, and that's all I need.

And I can still touch my toes and do yoga forward folds.
I think we've strayed from the original topic of the measurable strength of the lumbar spine in motion.

FWIW, I can put my palms on the floor, do Zercher DL's, and whatnot.

-S-
 
This comment may not relate strictly to the discussion but on the same subject. I spend lots of time in my local gym where mostly students from university come to train. The amount of knowledge they have about form and training is nearly zero. I observe that some small guys have thick erector spinae muscles and huge calf, but small glutes and hamstrings. They deadlift with light weight (100 kg is considered to be huge and most of them work in the range from 50 to 70 kg) but their backs were round, their legs were nearly straight. I asked them the feeling and they said that nearly never they felt the legs working during deadlift. Adding a simple calf stretch for few weeks helps them easier to use the hips and hamstring more (and reduce the amount of work for the back).
 
I had to look at this for a few minutes to even possibly guess what was going on.

Do you lie across the pad and put the chain between your legs?
@watchnerd thanks! This gave me an idea. If I can drop the weight lower (dip belt may be a problem) I can do like you said. This would swing legs more to front and would be a new variation slightly.
 
We do these in the calisthenics world. You can add weight with ankle weights or by holding a dumbbell between your knees or something. I would emphasize that a long range of motion where the lumbar is allowed to flex a little at the bottom of the motion is important. [

Reverse Hyper

Yes, this is one way of performing light a Reverse Hyper.

Other Exercises

1) Kick Back



This method using a cable, band or ankle weight works.

2) Walking

One exercise that has been shown to assist with individual lower back issues. The movement pattern is similar to the Reverse Hyper

2) Sled Pulls


This is weighed version what we might term as the "Walking Reverse Hyper".

THE USE OF HEAVY SLED DRAGGING TO INCREASE LOWER BODY STRENGTH AND SPEED IN A FOOTBALL PLAYER WITH LUMBAR ISSUES

PURPOSE: The back squat has been considered the gold standard for lower body strengthening in college football for many years. However, due to disc injury, many athletes are unable to perform this exercise as the axial loading exacerbates their symptoms. Many athletes have been relegated to machines such as leg press, leg extension, leg curl in attempt to maintain or prevent loss of strength to the legs, but rarely do they have a very high transfer of training due to the nature of requiring no stabilization. This intervention was an attempt to see what the effect of replacing the back squat with a heavy sled pull in terms of improvement in speed development in an individual with disc herniation currently experiencing back pain.

METHODS:
The subject for this study was an NCAA Division 1 quarterback with disc herniation at L5-S1 and L4-L5. Instead of performing the barbell back squat, the athlete performed sled pulls with a sled that had the ability to add weight to it. The athlete pulled the sled in a walking manner. The athlete was not allowed to run at any point with the sled. The forward lean angle of the athlete was self-determined. The athlete pulled the sled for 8 repetitions of 27.4 meters every week for 6 weeks. The first week, the athlete started with their bodyweight on the sled, approximately 90kg. For every subsequent set, the weight was altered based off of RPE. The desired RPE was an 8, if the RPE was higher, the weight was reduced. If the RPE was lower than 8, the weight was increased. The 39.6m sprint test was done in a pre/post-test design at week 1 and week 6 to assess sprinting speed.

RESULTS: Over the course of the six weeks, the load on the sled increased from 90kg to 380kg. The mean change in the 39.6m sprint for the entire football team during this period was .02 seconds. The change of the athlete who performed the sled pull was an improvement of .26 seconds. Interestingly, the subject also self-reported being able to throw the ball with greater velocity due to the improved leg strength from pulling the sled; this is important due to his position as a quarterback.
 
Last edited:
Reverse Hyper

Yes, this is one way of performing light a Reverse Hyper.

Other Exercises

1) Kick Back



This method using a cable, band or ankle weight works.

2) Walking

One exercise that has been shown to assist with individual lower back issues. The movement pattern is similar to the Reverse Hyper

2) Sled Pulls


This is weighed version what we might term as the "Walking Reverse Hyper".

THE USE OF HEAVY SLED DRAGGING TO INCREASE LOWER BODY STRENGTH AND SPEED IN A FOOTBALL PLAYER WITH LUMBAR ISSUES

PURPOSE: The back squat has been considered the gold standard for lower body strengthening in college football for many years. However, due to disc injury, many athletes are unable to perform this exercise as the axial loading exacerbates their symptoms. Many athletes have been relegated to machines such as leg press, leg extension, leg curl in attempt to maintain or prevent loss of strength to the legs, but rarely do they have a very high transfer of training due to the nature of requiring no stabilization. This intervention was an attempt to see what the effect of replacing the back squat with a heavy sled pull in terms of improvement in speed development in an individual with disc herniation currently experiencing back pain.

METHODS:
The subject for this study was an NCAA Division 1 quarterback with disc herniation at L5-S1 and L4-L5. Instead of performing the barbell back squat, the athlete performed sled pulls with a sled that had the ability to add weight to it. The athlete pulled the sled in a walking manner. The athlete was not allowed to run at any point with the sled. The forward lean angle of the athlete was self-determined. The athlete pulled the sled for 8 repetitions of 27.4 meters every week for 6 weeks. The first week, the athlete started with their bodyweight on the sled, approximately 90kg. For every subsequent set, the weight was altered based off of RPE. The desired RPE was an 8, if the RPE was higher, the weight was reduced. If the RPE was lower than 8, the weight was increased. The 39.6m sprint test was done in a pre/post-test design at week 1 and week 6 to assess sprinting speed.

RESULTS: Over the course of the six weeks, the load on the sled increased from 90kg to 380kg. The mean change in the 39.6m sprint for the entire football team during this period was .02 seconds. The change of the athlete who performed the sled pull was an improvement of .26 seconds. Interestingly, the subject also self-reported being able to throw the ball with greater velocity due to the improved leg strength from pulling the sled; this is important due to his position as a quarterback.


How would one determine the RPE of a sled pull?

I would have also been interested to see how the weight changed during sessions and between sessions.
 
@kennycro@@aol.com, I question what seems like the underlying assumption, that we can measure the strength of every or any muscle in a meaningful way.
Measuring Muscle Activation

The research article provides the method that employed to measure Lumbar strength. Provide me your email and I'll send it to you for your analysis.

It is mentioned in the article under...

Testing:

Isolated Lumbar Extension Strength Testing. Participants were seated in the ILEX device
(Lumbar Extension Machine; MedX Corporation, Ocala, FL, USA). The ILEX device uses restraints to limit unwanted pelvic involvement in an upright position with their thighs at an angle of 15 degrees to the seat in the testing (Figure 1), in addition to a counterweight to neutralize the effects of gravitational forces on the head, torso, and upper extremities. ...

it's not something that, at least for this competing deadlifter with a history of a bad back,

Reiteration of Initial Post

As I stated, "...if someone has back issues, they might not be something to consider. ... And as the saying goes, "If it hurts, don't do it".

Walking

I believe that you do a lot of walking, correct? As I noted it the post above, for individual with lower back issues, walking is a recommended exercise.

Sled Pulls
THE USE OF HEAVY SLED DRAGGING TO INCREASE LOWER BODY STRENGTH AND SPEED IN A FOOTBALL PLAYER WITH LUMBAR ISSUES

This research article demonstrated this type of Resistance Walking for athletes with lower back issues was effective for increasing strength.

McLaughlin's Bio-Mechanic Deadlift Research

I have posted information on McLaughlin's Bio-Mechanic Deadlift Research on this site.

His research demonstrated that with a Conventional Deadlift, the majority break the weight off the floor by initiating the drive with the lower back, with some secondary assistance from the legs.

As McLaughlin and even Contreras have noted, "Leg Pressing" the weight off the floor or the recommendation of "Push the Floor away from you" is counter productive for moving more weight.

Anna performs her Conventional Deadlifts in the same way; more leg drive that back. One of the exercise that she posted that helped her was Halting Deadlifts.

Based on Anna's leg strength, I suspect that she would pull more going Sumo.

Your Deadlift

I realize that due to your back issues, you use leg drive to break the weight off the floor. That is probably one of the reasons that it come off the floor so slow and your pull is stronger at the top.

With your back issues, I understand why you Deadlift this way.

Sumo Deadlift

Since you have back issues and employ leg drive to break the weight off the floor, I have often wondered why you don't go Sumo. Secondly (as you know), there is less stress on the lower back.

I am sure you have tried Sumo. I am just curious as to how it worked for you.

Squat Stance Deadlift




I am sure you have tried this one. How did it work for you?
 
Last edited:
Hmm... I think I disagree with that statement.

Questioning It

I believe things should be questioned.

That should be followed up with doing your own research and coming to your own conclusion rather than basing it on your feeling about it.

As the saying goes, "Your feeling don't matter, facts do."
 
Last edited:
Among my weightlifting peers, I'm one of the few that doesn't do hypers, although I do a crap ton of GMs.

As your poundages and volume increases your appreciation for reverse hypers will grow. Absolutely invaluable restoration tool.
 
As your poundages and volume increases your appreciation for reverse hypers will grow. Absolutely invaluable restoration tool.

Oh, I've used it plenty in the past.

The reason I don't do it now is because I train in my home gym and I don't have an apparatus.

Also, using standard weightlifter snatch/clean/squat ratios, I'm still (frustratingly after 7 years) more technique limited than I am strength limited.
 
Fairs. They are a costly piece of kit. Both in terms of cost and floor space.

Not as costly as my barbells and bumper plates. ;)

It's really the space issue. Although Rogue now sells a collapsible one:

 
Collapsible and half the cost.

Although from the reviews it looks like it will carve grooves in my bumper plates.

That's not great. Although I am starting to gather a lot of cast iron 25kg plates for big compounds. They should do nicely.
 
That's not great. Although I am starting to gather a lot of cast iron 25kg plates for big compounds. They should do nicely.

The reviewer who ran into the issue seems to say you can put in a change plate to act as a spacer and solve the issue.

I have 25 kg plates in my collection, but those are bumpers, too. ;)
 
The reviewer who ran into the issue seems to say you can put in a change plate to act as a spacer and solve the issue.

I have 25 kg plates in my collection, but those are bumpers, too. ;)

Bumpers are 100% essential for your goals. As I'm getting older I'm finding alternatives to the competition lifts, plyometrics and accommodating resistance to be just as beneficial in terms of results without the investment required to learn technique.

However they are awesome for huge traps.
 
A video review of the collapsible hyper:



Looks like a decent bit of kit for those short on space and money. No excuse not to have one really. I think I'm still going to wait for a full sized version to become available as the instability would worry me and my missus bruises VERY easily so something with more padding would benefit her more too.

However only a food would argue against the value of this piece of kit.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom