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Other/Mixed MAF Jump Rope?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
When I'm practiced, doing continuous light kettlebell snatches at a slower pace can be sustained at lower %s.

You'll get arguments from a lot of cardio experts that it's not as good as traditional cardio modes (jogging, rowing, etc), but I'm not convinced that it really matters. If I do an hour of continuous kettlebell snatches, you're absolutely working the heart and lungs and I don't give a crap of concern about wattage.

I have seen you mention this, and one day I will try it, but my concern (which may be unfounded) is that adding something like kettlebell snatches to my other lifting may be too much work for my upper body and shoulders. I'm already doing 2-3 series of Q&D 3 days a week, PLUS barbell lifts in 5/3/1 format, so I am really looking for just a simple way to keep my heart rate in the aerobic range a couple sessions a week. Do you think adding more kettlebells would be advisable? I guess if it's light enough to sustain for an hour it may not be something that I get overworked by, it just worries me that I'm doing too much.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
When I'm practiced, doing continuous light kettlebell snatches at a slower pace can be sustained at lower %s.

You'll get arguments from a lot of cardio experts that it's not as good as traditional cardio modes (jogging, rowing, etc), but I'm not convinced that it really matters. If I do an hour of continuous kettlebell snatches, you're absolutely working the heart and lungs and I don't give a crap of concern about wattage.
I've been curious about this, I question it more from a Frank-Starling perspective than a wattage. I've never tried it because I'd rather run.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
Have you considered replacing running with rucking? If the problem is you hate running, not that you ahve to silently jump rope next to your sleeping baby, that might be a good alternative.
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
Have you considered replacing running with rucking? If the problem is you hate running, not that you ahve to silently jump rope next to your sleeping baby, that might be a good alternative.
Yes, that is what I typically do, actually. The problem is that where I live is totally flat, and I have a hard time getting my HR up ENOUGH while rucking. I'm sure if I get a better bag that I can load more weight in it might do the trick, but with 40lbs in the sack, 2 lb heavy hands, and 5lb ankle weights I still only get my HR up to about 125-130 which is a bit low, even at 15 minute mile. . I really don't want to jog with all that weight on, but that's about the only way I could do it currently since I don't have a good ruck sack and any more weight in the pack I use causes too much shoulder pain.
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
I have seen you mention this, and one day I will try it, but my concern (which may be unfounded) is that adding something like kettlebell snatches to my other lifting may be too much work for my upper body and shoulders. I'm already doing 2-3 series of Q&D 3 days a week, PLUS barbell lifts in 5/3/1 format, so I am really looking for just a simple way to keep my heart rate in the aerobic range a couple sessions a week. Do you think adding more kettlebells would be advisable? I guess if it's light enough to sustain for an hour it may not be something that I get overworked by, it just worries me that I'm doing too much.
I'm not really recommending it for anyone but me, but as a guy who probably will never ever jog, it's just what I am willing to do.
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
I've been curious about this, I question it more from a Frank-Starling perspective than a wattage. I've never tried it because I'd rather run.
I think that everyone should do what they want and when it comes to 'aerobic' work, what you do is infinitely better than nothing as long as it's not harmful. The venous return thing is potentially an issue of course with some exercises, but honestly w. as light as I'm snatching (16kg) at a slower cadence (10-20rpm) I think if venous return were such an issue I'd be dead by now. That said, again, I'm just throwing out my $.02 for the sake of discussion - not saying it's the best option, or even a viable option, for others.
 

Pete S

Level 7 Valued Member
If I understand your original question, you are looking for a quiet way to attain indoor aerobic (MAF) HR on rainy days. The cited SF article on box stepping uses formulas that take me WAY out of the MAF aerobic zone. It also emphasizes minimal or no arm movement to emphasize leg work. I prefer to use OS inspired cross lateral movements emphasis and swing my arms naturally. While following this article will likely give you great conditioning, providing supplemental aerobic specific conditioning is not its intent.

The Nordic track suggestion can also satisfy your requirement. Adding weight via backpack, heavy hands, or even leg weights is also possible during box steps. If you want aerobic conditioning, let HR be your guide. As was pointed out by @offwidth, box steps are highly scalable. You can achieve aerobic conditioning by all sorts of means, but this seems to be a supplemental requirement to your other work and not the main event. Keep it simple.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
I'm sure if I get a better bag that I can load more weight in it might do the trick, but with 40lbs in the sack, 2 lb heavy hands, and 5lb ankle weights I still only get my HR up to about 125-130 which is a bit low, even at 15 minute mile. . I really don't want to jog with all that weight on, but that's about the only way I could do it currently since I don't have a good ruck sack and any more weight in the pack I use causes too much shoulder pain.
Ahh so the problem is that you are a cyborg.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I think that everyone should do what they want and when it comes to 'aerobic' work, what you do is infinitely better than nothing as long as it's not harmful. The venous return thing is potentially an issue of course with some exercises, but honestly w. as light as I'm snatching (16kg) at a slower cadence (10-20rpm) I think if venous return were such an issue I'd be dead by now. That said, again, I'm just throwing out my $.02 for the sake of discussion - not saying it's the best option, or even a viable option, for others.
I wonder if it could “work” as like a cross-training slot. A lot of run programs have a couple optional cross training slots, something like cycling or swimming or slide board, done easy for 30-45 minutes, to decrease some running specific stress while still getting the aerobic benefits of training. I’m just thinking for me here, might try that come spring.
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, that is what I typically do, actually. The problem is that where I live is totally flat, and I have a hard time getting my HR up ENOUGH while rucking. I'm sure if I get a better bag that I can load more weight in it might do the trick, but with 40lbs in the sack, 2 lb heavy hands, and 5lb ankle weights I still only get my HR up to about 125-130 which is a bit low, even at 15 minute mile. . I really don't want to jog with all that weight on, but that's about the only way I could do it currently since I don't have a good ruck sack and any more weight in the pack I use causes too much shoulder pain.
125-130 is probably about right if you are looking for lower intensity stuff. Here's an hour of shouldering a 40lb training bag and walking with it. Low intensity? Absolutely.Screen Shot 2021-12-08 at 6.09.44 PM.png
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Yes, that is what I typically do, actually. The problem is that where I live is totally flat, and I have a hard time getting my HR up ENOUGH while rucking
Something challenging: walking lunges (weighted or not)*. If you go really deep (knee almost at floor level), even a mile will seem a long way... Plus this is surprisingly hard for the core as well. It can "compensate" your flat living area.

*you can use a backpack or even harder, holding a weight at chest level.

Otherwise, @North Coast Miller 's advise seems wise. Unless you are willing to compete in pure endurance events, it will be time efficient and will transfer well (at least to a certain extent) to aerobic fitness.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
@BJJ Shawn

This might sound crazy, but have you considered just using the jump rope to do 2-3 HIIT intervals per week instead of LISS? You have to be pretty advanced to see any real advantage to LISS over HIIT when it comes to increasing aerobic fitness, and it can be done at home, indoors (with the jumprope you already have), with very little stress on the joints.

Yes, I have considered so many things that I think I am overwhelming myself, lol. I am not opposed to HIIT, and I don't know enough about the science, but in one of my other threads someone recommended a book by Joel Jamieson called Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it has a lot of good info. One of the things he talks about is that different protocols effect different aspects of aerobic conditioning, and that in order to expand the valve (left ventrical maybe?) you need to have a high volume of blood flowing for a long enough time (minimum 20 minutes I think? I would have to check the details on that one. He lists 8 different aspects of aerobic conditioning, but one of them he states (again I don't know, just regurgitating what I read) can really only be accomplished by LISS. I might not be advanced enough for this to matter, and being that I am not trying to be a professional athlete I don't know if the differences would even matter.
 

Pasibrzuch

Level 6 Valued Member
I think I recommended it to you in another topic, but you could use tempo intervals.
Set the timer for 45s work, 15s break. During the first work interval jump rope at such a pace that you reach ~75% of your HR max. During the second work interval you can do some correctives/resilient/flexible steel drills/neck work. Do it for 20-60mins.
I had great success with improving my aerobic base with this method. I took it from The Jaggernaut Method yt channel.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Yes, I have considered so many things that I think I am overwhelming myself, lol. I am not opposed to HIIT, and I don't know enough about the science, but in one of my other threads someone recommended a book by Joel Jamieson called Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it has a lot of good info. One of the things he talks about is that different protocols effect different aspects of aerobic conditioning, and that in order to expand the valve (left ventrical maybe?) you need to have a high volume of blood flowing for a long enough time (minimum 20 minutes I think? I would have to check the details on that one. He lists 8 different aspects of aerobic conditioning, but one of them he states (again I don't know, just regurgitating what I read) can really only be accomplished by LISS. I might not be advanced enough for this to matter, and being that I am not trying to be a professional athlete I don't know if the differences would even matter.


The only real difference is a slight advantage to capillary density goes to LISS, and its not clear if that advantage decreases over time - some studies don't even back that up. Stroke volume, stroke pressure, hypertrophy, blood volume increase, mitochondrial density, aerobic enzyme improvement, fat mobilization, glucose mobilization etc etc are all roughly equal, with HIIT increasing mitochondrial density somewhat better in the region of type II fibers. They use different pathways to achieve 90% similar outcome. As you become more advanced, LISS confers more benefit, but still requires a lot of training time.


And again, if you want to run better, you absolutely have to run. There are examples of people using HIIT to do half marathons and under and do well enough. For a full marathon I don't think anybody uses it exclusively. I did read about one man who did so experimentally and his time was over 3 1/2 hours - he did finish though.
 
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