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Other/Mixed MAF method or not...

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Ok, so being new to running and not wanting to hurt myself, rather than just go out for 2/3 30min runs which would kill me at the moment what would be the best way to build up, go for time or miles, for example..
20min 15min 30min
Or
2 mile 1.5 mile 3mile

Im not sure i could run for 30mins or 3 miles at present though 2 mile 20/25 mins is the most ive done

Thanks ?
 
This sounds like a lot...do you have a source? Could you clarify what you mean by 'really' get improvements?

No worries if you have nothing to hand though :)
6 hours of locomotive endurance is indeed a lot except when it isn’t. For some of us 6hrs in a single session is sort of entry level endurance. It all depends upon your aspirations and perspective...
 
6 hours of locomotive endurance is indeed a lot except when it isn’t. For some of us 6hrs in a single session is sort of entry level endurance. It all depends upon your aspirations and perspective...

'A lot' was in reference to the postulation of 6 hours as a minimum for positive aerobic adaptations.
 
Walk to warm up for 10 min. Walk/jog for 10 min. Break it up any way that feels good, as long as you stay under MAF. Doll down by walking for 10 min. Gradually add time to the walk/jog segment to increase volume. Another way to increase volume is to extend the walking cool down. Maffetone describes this as a great way for runners to add volume while minimizing injury risk. Ignore distance and just focus on time. The only reason to focus on distance is if you’re training for a specific goal. Then it becomes more of a mental thing. Training your brain to know what it feels like to exert for that long.

Another good resource for walk/run training is Jeff Galloway. He’s coached zillions of runners through distances up to the marathon and ways uses walking breaks.
 
This sounds like a lot...do you have a source? Could you clarify what you mean by 'really' get improvements?

No worries if you have nothing to hand though :)
Phil Maffetone, and he is referring to aerobic improvements.

Yes, if you go from doing nothing, to doing something , you will get improvements.

I am not a trainer, and I have no degrees in anything besides hard knocks, but I do know that you need to commit considerable time to the Maffetone method for it to be effective. "Training for the Uphill Athlete " recommends more like 10-12 hours of zone 1 and 2 running per week.

My point was, if you can only find time to do 5 miles a week, you can probably find another modality with more bang for your buck, then aerobic running. Maf running and LSS in general is amazing, but it is not always the best choice.
 
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BTW, since I've started doing more walking, I've noticed a lot of positive effects on my posture, thoracic/shoulder mobility, and how my back feels. When I walk regularly, I can tolerate a lot of sitting and working at a computer without ill effects. When people talk about the negative effects of sitting, I'm convinced that they are less directly related to sitting and more to not walking enough.
This part caught my eye, I'm making a mental note if it.
 
Phil Maffetone, and he is referring to aerobic improvements.

Yes, if you go from doing nothing, to doing something , you will get improvements.

I am not a trainer, and I have no degrees in anything besides hard knocks, but I do know that you need to commit considerable time to the Maffetone method for it to be effective. "Training for the Uphill Athlete " recommends more like 10-12 hours of zone 1 and 2 running per week.

My point was, if you can only find time to do 5 miles a week, you can probably find another modality with more bang for your buck, then aerobic running. Maf running and LSS in general is amazing, but it is not always the best choice.
I think we need to be clear that on one hand we're talking about using Maffetone's method (or LSS in general) for developing athletic performance, and on the other hand we're talking about general health and fitness. Training slow has a ton of health and fitness benefits, even at just 1-2hrs a week, including improving your ability to perform below your first ventilatory threshold (which seems to me to roughly correspond to the zone Maffetone is working on getting you to train in). Most higher level of trainers I see now - for performance or for health and wellness - seem to recommend that 70-80% of your training be easy (below VT1), <10% be between VT1 and VT2 (hard but not super hard; essentially up to a pace that you could run for 20-30 min max, usually done for longer intervals), and 10-20% be above VT2 (hard intervals).

There's a lot of different ways to organize training, but I wouldn't tell someone their time was better spent not doing LSS if they couldn't train at least X amount. YMMV.
 
You guys might be interested in ...

Listened to that one myself at the weekend.

The upshot being that if the athlete is suffering from ADS (i.e. like most of us) the optimal plan for medium to long term impact is for all aerobic training to be < MAF.. or even lower.
 
I am not real sure that amount of running does you any good, no matter how you do it. You might be better served to get another S&S training session in.
Something is better than nothing, but MAF is a high volume program. To really get aerobic improvements you need a minimum of 30 minutes per session and 6 hours a week. Maffetone actually recommends a warm up of atleast 10 minutes at 10 beats lower then target.
Huh?
 
I agree with @Coyote that something is certainly better than nothing; and from my perspective...for many people ‘something’ is really all they need.
That being said... to get aerobically fit or good by any real definition of the word (i.e. at the very least not have ADS) then high volume is required. TINSTAAFL
 

The original poster mentioned running twice a week, for 2 or 3 miles. I believe he would be better served doing something else. 5 miles total per week is not going to provide more then minimum improvement at any speed. It is better than nothing, but there is probably a better alternative.
I presume it is time he is restricted on, but I do not know for sure.
 
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On Peter Attia's podcast with Dr. Mafetone, they alluded to MAF really having to be at least a 45 minute session to really achieve the full benefits. He recommended (4) 45 minute sessions a week. The other interesting fact he mention was that 1) most should subtract 10 from the MAF formula (180-age-10) and 2) almost no one should ever add 5 to the number.
 
This is not consistent with my personal experience. I've subjectively seen improvements from one 60 minute session, and I've seen improvements from working at even lower intensities than MAF, both unloaded walking with my dog and using a NordicTrack skier. By "seen improvements" I mean not getting as out of breath or tired playing basketball

I never enjoyed sustained aerobic exercise and so never did much of it. If was playing a lot of basketball, I got in good shape for basketball. But if I was coming off a layoff from playing, I'd be (to quote Charles Barkley) "sucking wind through every hole I could get it in," regardless of how much strength, "metcon," or high intensity interval training I had been doing off the court. I was convinced that there was really no way to do "conditioning" for full court basketball other than actually playing basketball.

But then I stumbled across an article on conditioning that asked a question that really resonated with my experience (paraphrasing from memory -- unfortunately I do not remember where I saw the article or the author's name): "How come you are doing tons of metcons and high intensity intervals and still gassing out when you compete?" The article then focused on the importance of a big aerobic base.

It was lightbulb moment, like when Pavel asked in PTTP, "If training to failure is so great, why has your bench been stuck on 185 since Arnold's last movie?"

Around this time I added two new (to me) modalities to my training. One was A+A style KB work, mainly using snatches, double cleans, and clubbell and mace swings. A+A gave me permission to take lots of rest between sets, minimizing the perceived level of effort of my training sessions, trying NOT to "keep my heartrate up," and just generally keeping training sessions relaxed -- letting the accumulated time and volume do the work instead of the intensity of my effort. I probably keep my A+A sessions more relaxed and take more rest between sets than most others who use A+A.

The other was adding some low intensity locomotive aerobic training, mainly using a NordicTrack cross country ski machine while watching sports on TV. I never used a heartrate monitor, but stuck to a comfortable level of effort I could sustain with exclusively nasal breathing and that I could sustain for an hour at a time (and still feel like I could continue basically indefinitely if I had to). I mostly did one hour sessions, often only one per week and never really more than 3 sessions in a week. Recently, I also adopted a new young dog who needs lots of walking, so I try to get in at least one walk of at least 30 minutes (and often 60 or more), plus a couple of 15 minute walks.

BTW, since I've started doing more walking, I've noticed a lot of positive effects on my posture, thoracic/shoulder mobility, and how my back feels. When I walk regularly, I can tolerate a lot of sitting and working at a computer without ill effects. When people talk about the negative effects of sitting, I'm convinced that they are less directly related to sitting and more to not walking enough.

Once I had been doing this for a while, all of a sudden I stopped getting tired on the basketball court. And if I had a layoff from playing, I still had excellent stamina when I started up again. The difference was very dramatic from what I had experience most of my training and playing life. And it not only comes at a low recovery cost, but I believe also enhances recovery from other activities.

One significant caveat is that this transition in training coincided with a period where age (I'm now 56) and accumulated orthopedic injuries and arthritis really began to catch up with me. The high school kids, college students, and twentysomethings I play with often compliment me on my conditioning (maybe they're just being nice), and I now joke that I can't run fast enough or jump high enough to get tired ;-). But even within that context, I am convinced that my training made a clear difference in my fitness for playing.

tl;dr: IMO, in the context of general health and fitness, even a relatively small amount of sustained low intensity aerobic exercise is worthwhile and it would be a mistake to think that it isn't worth it if you don't do long sessions and many hours a week.
You NEED Long Duration, Low Intensity Cardio - Robertson Training Systems your comment reminded me of this article.
 
I find running good for my mind, i dont get the same benefit from rucking although i do enjoy it for other reasons.

I just dont really have the time to do it, running i can go out for 20/30mins
Rucking i wont really get the benefits in them time frames i dont think
 
Nothing wrong with a couple of 20- 30 min easy runs each week. Better this than overdoing it. MAF is an excellent way to avoid overdoing it in the beginning. Just do it ( Has that great slogan been used already ? )
 
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