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Other/Mixed MAF Question

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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LarryB

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So I have successfully run several marathons and other races at this point in my life and decided to take this past winter off and deep dive into kettlebells. I used my commutes to work on my aerobic base and form in hopes that i can become more efficient overall. I was using my MAF and made progress that I am happy with and am now carrying over into my summer marathon training. I’m 33 so MAF would be about 147 (180-33).
I’m also in exercise physiology at the moment and have been learning about HR variables and VO2 max. So i did the Rockport mile walk test over the weekend and found my vo2 mac to be around 46. This is consistent with my Garmin watches analysis as well which was accompanied by other ego boosting information. 1626209199707.png
this got me to thinking about how we found our hr max by subtracting age from 220, (220-33=187). My target hr would be 134 (60%of hr max) to 160 (85% of hr max). Also what about this exercise thing garmin said, I don’t know much about that, should i take it into consideration at all?
Having said all that I’m just looking for wiggle room with my hr. People who use MAF do you ever take any of this into consideration, or is it all just noise and you try to stay steady in the low hr zone? Any and all thoughts/criticisms are welcome!
 
So I have successfully run several marathons and other races at this point in my life and decided to take this past winter off and deep dive into kettlebells. I used my commutes to work on my aerobic base and form in hopes that i can become more efficient overall. I was using my MAF and made progress that I am happy with and am now carrying over into my summer marathon training. I’m 33 so MAF would be about 147 (180-33).
I’m also in exercise physiology at the moment and have been learning about HR variables and VO2 max. So i did the Rockport mile walk test over the weekend and found my vo2 mac to be around 46. This is consistent with my Garmin watches analysis as well which was accompanied by other ego boosting information. View attachment 14241
this got me to thinking about how we found our hr max by subtracting age from 220, (220-33=187). My target hr would be 134 (60%of hr max) to 160 (85% of hr max). Also what about this exercise thing garmin said, I don’t know much about that, should i take it into consideration at all?
Having said all that I’m just looking for wiggle room with my hr. People who use MAF do you ever take any of this into consideration, or is it all just noise and you try to stay steady in the low hr zone? Any and all thoughts/criticisms are welcome!

There are relatively accurate formulas to "estimate" heart rate zones, VO2 Max, aerobic threshold, and so on. Problem is these estimates are based on the Max HR figure, and it better not be an estimate as well. To add more confusion, target heart rates, according to my PT, are activity-specific.

I and my PT were confident enough of my heart condition for me to do a stress test to precisely find my Max HR. I was partial to do the high school track approach, but my PT insisted I do a Conconi test on the treadmill. The resulting speed vs. HR graph pinpointed my aerobic threshold as well as my Max HR. It also highlighted my severely deficient aerobic base. Of course, such stress tests are risky to undergo without medical approval and supervision.

Tomorrow morning, we'll be conducting the same test for my teenage boy (scores regularly for his high school Cross-Country and Track & Field teams). If you're interested, I can post a very humbling graph comparing both our results.
 
So I have successfully run several marathons and other races at this point in my life and decided to take this past winter off and deep dive into kettlebells. I used my commutes to work on my aerobic base and form in hopes that i can become more efficient overall. I was using my MAF and made progress that I am happy with and am now carrying over into my summer marathon training. I’m 33 so MAF would be about 147 (180-33).
I’m also in exercise physiology at the moment and have been learning about HR variables and VO2 max. So i did the Rockport mile walk test over the weekend and found my vo2 mac to be around 46. This is consistent with my Garmin watches analysis as well which was accompanied by other ego boosting information. View attachment 14241
this got me to thinking about how we found our hr max by subtracting age from 220, (220-33=187). My target hr would be 134 (60%of hr max) to 160 (85% of hr max). Also what about this exercise thing garmin said, I don’t know much about that, should i take it into consideration at all?
Having said all that I’m just looking for wiggle room with my hr. People who use MAF do you ever take any of this into consideration, or is it all just noise and you try to stay steady in the low hr zone? Any and all thoughts/criticisms are welcome!
Both MAF and 220-age is set targets and not really accurate. If you wanna run by your heartrate. Then test your max HR and then you get a chance to train at right intensities.
 
U mentioned u are using a Garmin. Do you have a HRM? If so, the best way to figure out your VT1 (which is really what the MAF rate tries to approximate) is to do the lactate threshold test (or VT2 test). Then your “MAF runs” should be at a max of 85% of your LT or VT2. For me personally, it is virtually the same as my MAF formula calculation (138 for 85% of LT, 137 for 170-age).

note - the above is for RUN. Other endurance sports will use different %. I got this formula off TrainingPeaks and it worked well for me.
 
My take from reading his books. He wanted something simple and effective. No need for treadmill stress tests etc. to find Max HR. Like Anna said you could add 5 beats if you have been injury free for 2 yrs. or more and have been improving. What you are doing seems to be working, yes ?
 
My take from reading his books. He wanted something simple and effective. No need for treadmill stress tests etc. to find Max HR. Like Anna said you could add 5 beats if you have been injury free for 2 yrs. or more and have been improving. What you are doing seems to be working, yes ?
Simple can be good. But it depends.

If you wanna be sure to train in the right zones. Then MAF isnt the way to go.
 
There are relatively accurate formulas to "estimate" heart rate zones, VO2 Max, aerobic threshold, and so on. Problem is these estimates are based on the Max HR figure, and it better not be an estimate as well. To add more confusion, target heart rates, according to my PT, are activity-specific.

I and my PT were confident enough of my heart condition for me to do a stress test to precisely find my Max HR. I was partial to do the high school track approach, but my PT insisted I do a Conconi test on the treadmill. The resulting speed vs. HR graph pinpointed my aerobic threshold as well as my Max HR. It also highlighted my severely deficient aerobic base. Of course, such stress tests are risky to undergo without medical approval and supervision.

Tomorrow morning, we'll be conducting the same test for my teenage boy (scores regularly for his high school Cross-Country and Track & Field teams). If you're interested, I can post a very humbling graph comparing both our results.
This is exactly the right way to determine HRMax
 
There are relatively accurate formulas to "estimate" heart rate zones, VO2 Max, aerobic threshold, and so on. Problem is these estimates are based on the Max HR figure, and it better not be an estimate as well. To add more confusion, target heart rates, according to my PT, are activity-specific.

I and my PT were confident enough of my heart condition for me to do a stress test to precisely find my Max HR. I was partial to do the high school track approach, but my PT insisted I do a Conconi test on the treadmill. The resulting speed vs. HR graph pinpointed my aerobic threshold as well as my Max HR. It also highlighted my severely deficient aerobic base. Of course, such stress tests are risky to undergo without medical approval and supervision.

Tomorrow morning, we'll be conducting the same test for my teenage boy (scores regularly for his high school Cross-Country and Track & Field teams). If you're interested, I can post a very humbling graph comparing both our results.
For sure, i loved your post too, i have been trying to improve by aerobic deficiency as well
 
For sure, i loved your post too, i have been trying to improve by aerobic deficiency as well
Here goes... a classic tale of the Tortoise and the Hare. A 56 year old dad vs. his 16 year old son. The Energizer Bunny switched from strict nasal breathing at the 12 MPH mark.

Treadmill maxed out at 12 MPH... a Precor brand.

maxHR Slaiman and Dad.jpg
 
If it is, it’s out of ignorance. My training is working too and I’m happy with progress. My exercise physiology class just got me thinking (perhaps overthinking).
Thought maybe you were referring to pops as the energizer bunny, nose breathing to 12 mph and 190 +
Looks like pops hit around 174.
 
Thought maybe you were referring to pops as the energizer bunny, nose breathing to 12 mph and 190 +
Looks like pops hit around 174.
Yup... My max HR has kept steady at low 170s for the past 7 years. My kettlebell training seems to have split my curve into two and shifted only the top part to the right. My immediate goal for the next 6 months is to shift the lagging part to the right (with MAF running) before adjusting training to shift the smoothed overall curve further to the right.

My boy's max HR is probably around 205 or so. We need a faster treadmill or introduce elevation progressively once 12 MPH is reached.
 
If it is, it’s out of ignorance. My training is working too and I’m happy with progress. My exercise physiology class just got me thinking (perhaps overthinking).
Curious to hear about this class. My boy is interested in this subject and fancies himself going into sports medicine eventually.
 
Curious to hear about this class. My boy is interested in this subject and fancies himself going into sports medicine eventually.
I’m in a PE program, all of mine is online so you get out what you put in. I would recommend somewhere in person with actual group labs opposed to the self tests and learning I’m doing. It’s all fascinating and much easier to dedicate to because it’s a passion.
A lot of my PE classes are i. Person, but not these unfortunately.
Dr Jacob Goodin, this guy’s YouTube got me through kinesiology last semester. He has tons of cool stuff on there sports science wise.
 
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Thought maybe you were referring to pops as the energizer bunny, nose breathing to 12 mph and 190 +
Looks like pops hit around 174.
Ahh, i see. Yes i was being liberal with “your” i see it now. It’s kind of similar to the pacer test used with kids actually, just finding more specific numbers. I haven’t been to the ymca in ages but i might have to use their treadmill and try it out.
 
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