offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
I’m guessing Seattle. (Ex-Vancouver B.C. myself) So I know what you mean.
Commuting on sketchy roads is not fun... (i’ve done way too much of that...)
Other/Mixed Maffetone Aerobic Training - Session Length and Weekly Volume Guidelines?
- Thread starter BennyWalks
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Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Commuting on sketchy roads is not fun... (i’ve done way too much of that...)
Rumsmike
Level 6 Valued Member
Actually I'm in Vancouver ?. Things are still wet here in case you're wondering.
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vegpedlr
Level 6 Valued Member
@Rumsmike
PNW here too, but the other Vancouver, SW WA/PDX. I’m a transplant from SF Bay, arrived just in time for the pandemic and been hiding in the woods from the virus ever since. Not only is the weather miserable, everything is 1-2 hrs away, even though I’m surrounded by forest. Hopefully I can emerge from the barn in spring to a safer world, strong, fit, in a GPP way and ready for shredding trails. Starting to get used to the weather a bit more, but I miss the sun.
Back to you question, my understanding and experience of aerobic training especially MAF is that frequency is the most important thing. So a once a week 3hr ride won’t get you much. Better to do 3x1 hr. Best is 2x1 hr and 1x as long as you can. There’s also a difference in activity. Cycling is less stressful, there’s more coasting than you think, so my experience is that at least an hour is needed, whereas running sessions can be shorter. There is also a big difference regarding terrain. A flat road ride for an hour can be a recovery ride, but a 1 hr MTB ride could be a high intensity effort that requires plenty of recovery.
You’ve got quite a cycling background, so it wouldn’t take long to regain much of it, and maintaining the fitness for the goals you describe wouldn’t take much either.
PNW here too, but the other Vancouver, SW WA/PDX. I’m a transplant from SF Bay, arrived just in time for the pandemic and been hiding in the woods from the virus ever since. Not only is the weather miserable, everything is 1-2 hrs away, even though I’m surrounded by forest. Hopefully I can emerge from the barn in spring to a safer world, strong, fit, in a GPP way and ready for shredding trails. Starting to get used to the weather a bit more, but I miss the sun.
Back to you question, my understanding and experience of aerobic training especially MAF is that frequency is the most important thing. So a once a week 3hr ride won’t get you much. Better to do 3x1 hr. Best is 2x1 hr and 1x as long as you can. There’s also a difference in activity. Cycling is less stressful, there’s more coasting than you think, so my experience is that at least an hour is needed, whereas running sessions can be shorter. There is also a big difference regarding terrain. A flat road ride for an hour can be a recovery ride, but a 1 hr MTB ride could be a high intensity effort that requires plenty of recovery.
You’ve got quite a cycling background, so it wouldn’t take long to regain much of it, and maintaining the fitness for the goals you describe wouldn’t take much either.
vegpedlr
Level 6 Valued Member
Addendum
The MAF Method relies on discipline in keeping intensity low, so that every session is repeatable. Maffetone says you feel good when you finish, good enough to go back out and do it again. At least you should feel that you can easily do it again the next day, and the next, and the next . . . To get the most benefit then you have to actually go out and do it again . .
The MAF Method relies on discipline in keeping intensity low, so that every session is repeatable. Maffetone says you feel good when you finish, good enough to go back out and do it again. At least you should feel that you can easily do it again the next day, and the next, and the next . . . To get the most benefit then you have to actually go out and do it again . .
BennyWalks
Level 3 Valued Member
Not been doing strict MAF runs as I haven't got a heart rate monitor yet...been using nasal breathing and the talk test...but anyway: Yeah, been feeling f****** amazing after runs. Can still tell you've done some productive exercise but also feel energised and glowing.
Think I'm gonna slow my rate of progress (adding reps / weight) in resistance training right down to just over maintainance levels and keep building a nice aerobic base.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
The talk test is a very good substitute to ensure you are at or below AeT in lieu of an HRM
BennyWalks
Level 3 Valued Member
Yes I read some an special forces guy (think it was a StrongFirst article) saying he always breathes through the nose in training.
Do you have any experience / knowledge regarding if the talk test is the same way? It doesn't make sense to me that it would be, but I could be missing something.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Bear in mind that some people also practice and are very adept at breathing practices. This will allow them to breath nasally at a very high exertion level. (i.e. at a high HR) So they could be training well above their AeT.
vegpedlr
Level 6 Valued Member
I don’t talk to myself while training. At least not out loud. Unless I’m angrily cursing a technical move I just screwed up.
I got into nasal breathing after listening to an interview with John Douillard, author of Body, Mind, Sport. I’d read the book a while back and didn’t really get it. It’s heavy on Ayurveda, which should have interested me more, but on the shelf it went. After listening to him speak, I went back and reread it and it made tons more sense. Just like with Maffetone. Once I tried both methods, then I really got it.
I got into nasal breathing after listening to an interview with John Douillard, author of Body, Mind, Sport. I’d read the book a while back and didn’t really get it. It’s heavy on Ayurveda, which should have interested me more, but on the shelf it went. After listening to him speak, I went back and reread it and it made tons more sense. Just like with Maffetone. Once I tried both methods, then I really got it.
Peter Yeates
Level 7 Valued Member
I have found with solely MAF training of around 3 x 1hr x per week this allows me to easily do a casual 100+km ride but if I want to do a spirited group ride I personally have to include at least 1 x / week interval session otherwise I will be spat out the back of the pack. MAF gives great steady state speed but I think is poor in allowing recovery from the surges in a pack.
I also talk to myself on rides, plus the cows, birds, trees etc, and on really long rides they talk back to me ?.
I usually am cursing at cars that almost hit me or don't move over...
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Well... I do that too....
Matt604
Level 6 Valued Member
Hi all, I am also interested in this topic. I have been adding some aerobic jogging ("plodding" is more accurate in my case) to improve cardio health and recovery between kettlebell bouts. No endurance performance goals.
The MAF concept makes sense to me but Maffetone's prescription bothers me for a couple reasons. So what I do instead is breathe through my nose only, and count six steps to inhale and six steps to exhale. If I need to quicken my breathing to 5 steps, or open my mouth to suck air, I stop and walk for a bit. Of course this isn't "doing Maffetone" since I'm not watching my HR, but do you folks think it's a fairly safe way to make sure I don't exceed my MAF if I can keep my breathing that slow during a plod?
[I cycle commuted year-round in Vancouver BC too, eons ago. I traded the wet for the SF Bay Area, and I miss the rain.]
The MAF concept makes sense to me but Maffetone's prescription bothers me for a couple reasons. So what I do instead is breathe through my nose only, and count six steps to inhale and six steps to exhale. If I need to quicken my breathing to 5 steps, or open my mouth to suck air, I stop and walk for a bit. Of course this isn't "doing Maffetone" since I'm not watching my HR, but do you folks think it's a fairly safe way to make sure I don't exceed my MAF if I can keep my breathing that slow during a plod?
[I cycle commuted year-round in Vancouver BC too, eons ago. I traded the wet for the SF Bay Area, and I miss the rain.]
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
I would just rely on utilizing the talk test.
(btw... I also cycle commuted year-round in Van. Also eons ago... 70’s-80’s)
vegpedlr
Level 6 Valued Member
The Maffetone Method is not the only way to get aerobically fit. It’s not for everyone, or is it the best way at all times. The point is to build a solid aerobic engine with exclusively low intensity training FIRST. Then, add intensity as needed or desired. Or, in the classic periodization model, as long as possible before transitioning to higher intensity work.
But like any program, it works best if you actually follow the program. Which means a HRM to keep you honest. Not talking, nasal breathing, or reciting poetry. It means staying disciplined by obeying the speed limit.
Maffetone still has value for those who decide to use different systems since it gives clear guidance on what low intensity, or an “easy” day should feel like. This can help people avoid the big mistake of spending too much time unknowingly in the gray zone or no man’s land of intensity: Not intense enough to get more benefit than MAF, but too intense to allow for quick recovery.
But like any program, it works best if you actually follow the program. Which means a HRM to keep you honest. Not talking, nasal breathing, or reciting poetry. It means staying disciplined by obeying the speed limit.
Maffetone still has value for those who decide to use different systems since it gives clear guidance on what low intensity, or an “easy” day should feel like. This can help people avoid the big mistake of spending too much time unknowingly in the gray zone or no man’s land of intensity: Not intense enough to get more benefit than MAF, but too intense to allow for quick recovery.
Starlord
Level 5 Valued Member
I'm a big fan of Dr Stephen Seilers work, polarised training aka the 80/20 rule for running and triathlon training.
From what I can gather aerobic adaptations are signalled after 20mins of work.
Maximum session length before incurring any negatives? That will vary. On your goal, training history, injury history etc. So many factors.
From what I can gather aerobic adaptations are signalled after 20mins of work.
Maximum session length before incurring any negatives? That will vary. On your goal, training history, injury history etc. So many factors.
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