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Man Maker?

11Blade

11Blade

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Has anyone ever actually done a legit 200 snatches w/ 32kgs? Video? Seems like that put muscle on a 2×4!
 
I should have intro'ed myself and made clear I am brand new to Kbells w/ (0) experience w/ them. I came from as Pavel accurately called it "HIT...a planet far, far away". I used to think benching a 325lb barbell FOR REPS was alot..then I got (2) 100lb dumbbells and that humbled me alot...then I got (1) 80lb kettlebell and that made my 200lb dumbells honestly seem light. I'm sure its the thickness of the horn and the fact the intertia of the swing which has to multiply the 80lbs by 2x or 3x ....but just a few 10rep set of swings w/ this monster does put a hurtin' on me for sure. Most of the vids ^ that were posted are guys who genetically predisposed to strength rather than size I suspect. I mean go check out Dexter Jackson Mr Olympia winner. I doubt he could equal any of those ^ vids despite being 2-3x they're size. There seems to be a bell curve distribution of response to strength training w/ skinny guys moving incredible weights on one end and massive guys barely able move even modest weights.
 
11Blade said:
I should have intro'ed myself and made clear I am brand new to Kbells w/ (0) experience w/ them. I came from as Pavel accurately called it "HIT...a planet far, far away". I used to think benching a 325lb barbell FOR REPS was alot..then I got (2) 100lb dumbbells and that humbled me alot...then I got (1) 80lb kettlebell and that made my 200lb dumbells honestly seem light. I'm sure its the thickness of the horn and the fact the intertia of the swing which has to multiply the 80lbs by 2x or 3x ....but just a few 10rep set of swings w/ this monster does put a hurtin' on me for sure. Most of the vids ^ that were posted are guys who genetically predisposed to strength rather than size I suspect. I mean go check out Dexter Jackson Mr Olympia winner. I doubt he could equal any of those ^ vids despite being 2-3x they're size. There seems to be a bell curve distribution of response to strength training w/ skinny guys moving incredible weights on one end and massive guys barely able move even modest weights.
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My left arm is almost the same size with my right arm but there is a significant difference in between strengths of my both arms. Strength is a skill and as in many skills nervous system is mostly responsible from. You can observe the same thing in many sports, a person who looks jacked can be easily beaten buy a person looking much less jacked.

Pavel’s books articles define strength in a beautiful way and you will learn a lot about strength if you read his articles and books. Some of your learnings will surprise you, as they did surprise me.

You might want to check SF’s Fabio Zonin’s articles, books programs to see how you can work towards hypertrophy while also improving your strength. You will see that, his programs are quite different from the ones that you can find in any gym around the world, but hey this is why we are here right?

Ps: For KB training as you might have already recognized S&S is the recommended starting point of SF.
 
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11Blade said:
Most of the vids ^ that were posted are guys who genetically predisposed to strength rather than size I suspect. I mean go check out Dexter Jackson Mr Olympia winner. I doubt he could equal any of those ^ vids despite being 2-3x they're size. There seems to be a bell curve distribution of response to strength training w/ skinny guys moving incredible weights on one end and massive guys barely able move even modest weights.
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I think what you are talking about has less to do with genetics than type of training. The first guy is a kettlebell sport athlete so trains for strength endurance putting kettlebells overhead for ten minutes straight. He doesn't train for Mr Olympia, like Dexter Jackson, who trains purely for size and aesthetics.

You train for strength you get stronger, you train for size you get bigger. Both have genetic thresholds of course, but this is about training specificity. The body adapts to the training stimulus you give it, not the one you don't.
 
Ege said:
My left arm is almost the same size with my right arm but there is a significant difference in between strengths of my both arms. Strength is a skill and as in many skills nervous system is mostly responsible from. You can observe the same thing in many sports, a person who looks jacked can be easily beaten buy a person looking much less jacked.

Pavel’s books articles define strength in a beautiful way and you will learn a lot about strength if you read his articles and books. Some of your learnings will surprise you, as they did surprise me.

You might want to check SF’s Fabio Zonin’s articles, books programs to see how you can work towards hypertrophy while also improving your strength. You will see that, his programs are quite different from the ones that you can find in any gym around the world, but hey this is why we are here right?

Ps: For KB training as you might have already recognized S&S is the recommended starting point of SF.
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Excellent response!
 
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200 snatches with a 32kg definitely would put you at an elite level of experience in my opinion. I take it being more of a challenge than just something any person even with experience could do on any random day. A snatch is a clean that ends up overhead. Practice your swings and cleans and get ups to get the movement and mobility for the snatch. Start with a light weight like 16kg so you can get the technique of the snatch before going heavier or you may run the risk of jacking up your elbows. I usually do my snatches facing a light pole in my backyard to avoid casting the bell too far forward. I doubt you will find many really big guys who have built up to 200 snatches with a 32 especially since one minute of snatches burns about 20 calories. Its an excellent all around exercise.
 
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Symanoy said:
Would it be better described as a clean that ends up overhead as per Tim Almond? The force projection is very much upwards as opposed to forwards as in a swing.
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If thats what helps you understand it better. They are both just as important. The bottom of a clean is a swing. I usually do one swing, one clean, one high pull, then a snatch to help getting the movement going. The swing is important because the snatch is hips which get more powerful with swings. The clean is a great exercise it just usually takes more time and coaching to learn than a swing.
 


I've found Tim's stuff super helpful and have spent a lot of time watching his videos and particularly his elbows! Thinking of the snatch more like a clean has definitely helped my snatch a lot. The arc is completely different even if the bottom position is the same like you say.
 
Symanoy said:


I've found Tim's stuff super helpful and have spent a lot of time watching his videos and particularly his elbows! Thinking of the snatch more like a clean has definitely helped my snatch a lot. The arc is completely different even if the bottom position is the same like you say.
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I agree the elbow is most similar to the clean and in taming the arc. This is why my original post said I practice my snatch close to the light pole in my backyard or hanging a yoga mat over a pullup bar. If you hit it you will have instant feedback that you aren’t taming the arc like tou should. Two hand swings will build powerful hips that you need to sail the kettlebell up. Ive never heard of Tim but this is what Strongfirst teaches too to learn the snatch. My original post I said I usually do a swing a clean a high pull and a snatch to warm up and get the right path going.
 
Symanoy said:
I think what you are talking about has less to do with genetics than type of training. The first guy is a kettlebell sport athlete so trains for strength endurance putting kettlebells overhead for ten minutes straight. He doesn't train for Mr Olympia, like Dexter Jackson, who trains purely for size and aesthetics.

You train for strength you get stronger, you train for size you get bigger. Both have genetic thresholds of course, but this is about training specificity. The body adapts to the training stimulus you give it, not the one you don't.
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Completely disagree w/ you. Its 100% totally genes. Even if Dexter Jackson (whoever) were to just do swings, presses, & get-ups w/ only 50lbs he'd still look like a bodybuilder. He, of course, wouldn't have the muscular details but he'd be about the same size as he is now. in his major muscle groups (delts/pecs , arms, legs) His genes are just freakishly hypertrophic responsive. Just like I am certain there are guys who can do any move w/ a 75lb kbell who are 1/2 the size of Dexter Jackson...they're just very strength responsive. Its like Anatoly Taras was quoted saying "once you've reached the point your doing 50 snatches per arm w/ a 50lb kettlebell you've reached the point of diminshing returns". Most pro bb'ers are nowhere near as strong as they appear, much like we all know guys who can snatch 100lb kbells for many reps who appear average at best, maybe smaller/lighter. Pro bb'ers the same as elite weight lifters are born NOT made. Look at Lamar Grant. Weighs 125lbs but deadlifts 550lbs. Nothing he could do will ever make his huge...but NOTHING Dexter Jackson can do will make him able to DL 1000lbs.
 
11Blade said:
Completely disagree w/ you. Its 100% totally genes. Even if Dexter Jackson (whoever) were to just do swings, presses, & get-ups w/ only 50lbs he'd still look like a bodybuilder. He, of course, wouldn't have the muscular details but he'd be about the same size as he is now. in his major muscle groups (delts/pecs , arms, legs) His genes are just freakishly hypertrophic responsive. Just like I am certain there are guys who can do any move w/ a 75lb kbell who are 1/2 the size of Dexter Jackson...they're just very strength responsive. Its like Anatoly Taras was quoted saying "once you've reached the point your doing 50 snatches per arm w/ a 50lb kettlebell you've reached the point of diminshing returns". Most pro bb'ers are nowhere near as strong as they appear, much like we all know guys who can snatch 100lb kbells for many reps who appear average at best, maybe smaller/lighter. Pro bb'ers the same as elite weight lifters are born NOT made. Look at Lamar Grant. Weighs 125lbs but deadlifts 550lbs. Nothing he could do will ever make his huge...but NOTHING Dexter Jackson can do will make him able to DL 1000lbs.
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I think the missing piece here is that a huge contributor to Dexter Jackson’s physique is PEDs. You can’t look like that without them. Genes play a part, training plays a bigger part. Check out Ronnie Coleman. Won the Olympia tons of times and incredibly strong. You can be big and strong. You can be small and strong. Genes dictate muscle shape, insertions and strength and size and potential. Training (and diet) is what actually produces gains.
 
Since I'm new to seriously training kbells I can say w/out doubt that done properly the swing has more muscle/strength building potential than the over-hyped barbell back squat & the best part is for the vast majority of dudes it doesn't require more than 50lbs at the most.
 
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