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Bodyweight Matt furey

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I am no big furey fan. i did the exersises too and liked them, nothing more.
but this sonnon statement is too hilariuos, even more reagrding its receiver, who himself said a few funny things...

but nevertheless

its funny how people start a programm or exersises, than they get injured or make no progress and immediately blame it on the programm or the exercises itself.
its not like furey forbid to do more stuff if you feel the need to balance out things (whatever that means...)
and of course going from zero push ups a year to 300 hundred a day can be too much. common sense!!!
 
Hello,

From time to time, hitting some high volume training with basic moves can be interesting, as a test or as a challenge. On the long haul, I think that the poison is in the dose.

IMO, the best way to reap benefits of high volume training is to use plenty of variations, and changing them often:
- Hindu push ups, standard push ups, feet elevated push ups, ring push ups, OAP, OAOL PU, etc...
- Hindu squats, standard squats, jump squats, pistols, etc...

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
From time to time, hitting some high volume training with basic moves can be interesting, as a test or as a challenge. On the long haul, I think that the poison is in the dose.

Agreed, well said.
 
Thank you guys for all the input.
It seems. As always. That there are people who say its a stupid programm and some say its a great programm.
The only way to know is to give it a try for a few weeks. Then i can make up my own conclusies.
Whats a month over a lifetime ;-)
 
Years ago I got some of Matt Furey's materials and did the calisthenics he teaches. I was doing Brazilian JuJitsu at the time and wanted the conditioning. I didn't know about kettlebells at the time and I don't believe I had ever seen anybody using one.
I built my endurance to the point that I would do up to 250 Hindu push ups in one set without stopping or leaving the push up position. I could have done more but at some point you just need to stop and do something else. I would regularly do a set of 500 Hindu squats and occasionally did up to 700. I once held a bridge with my nose on the floor, my feet flat on the floor, and my arms folded across my chest for 20 minutes. Just like Matt taught in the book My throat got really dry as I remember it because I couldn't swallow for the whole time. Hold a wrestling bridge like that for 15-20 minutes and you may see what I mean. Sometimes when bridging I sometimes I wondered if I might hurt myself in some way. But I never passed out and I didn't notice any pain, just a lot of discomfort. I hope I didn't cause any long term damage to my neck or brain. I did occasionally worry about the blood flow to my head. Perhaps that is part of the reason I stopped doing them.

I stopped doing bridges a long time ago. I short time ago I noticed a personal trainer who has a degree in physical therapy, Jeff Cavalier of Athlean-X, stated they weren't a good exercise for the neck and could lead to damage in the long run.
After getting to the point I could do those numbers, I noticed that my overall endurance was pretty good when wrestling. Nobody ever out conditioned me but, it did nothing to help me develop my strength. I would still get overpowered by the really strong guys from time to time. I only weighed about 165 so really big guys would probably do it ever if I lifted, but I didn't get any strength development to help my performance.
I did start to notice a shoulder problem after a while. I think just doing the Hindu push ups caused an imbalance or overuse injury in my shoulder. I did some pull ups as well but I don't think that was enough.
I don't think I would repeat the process again. I don't think it had real value for me in the long run. I probably would have got better results doing some strength training a couple times a week and then doing some other drills.

Looking back on it I wonder why I wasn't a little wiser in who I took exercise advice from. To my knowledge neither Karl Gotch nor Matt Furey have any expertise in the field of exercise science or physical therapy. I am not trying to disparage them but I ask myself why I would hold a wrestling bridge like that for so long when it was so uncomfortable. What benefit did I get from it that helped me be a better Ju Jitsu wrestler? Also, I wonder about some of the other things they teach like going up on the ball of the foot when doing squats. Perhaps since it is only bodyweight there will be no harm but I don't know.

Knowing what I know now I would probably do some of the bodyweight exercises recommended in the Naked Warrior, the kettle bell routine in Simple and Sinister for strength and conditioning, and some of the other kettle bell exercises taught by Strong First. Simple and Sinister or long sets of kettle bell snatches would probably be much better for conditioning and have a better carry over for that sport than hundreds of Hindu squats, Hindu pushups, and bridges. Perhaps some barbell training with some kettle bell conditioning would also be better. Even a little bit of running a couple times per week for extra endurance could be added.

It takes a long time to do that many high rep calisthenics and based upon my experience I don't believe the pay off in improved performance justifies the time spent. I would also ask if there are any professionals with sports science training who recommend the volume of high rep body weight training that Gotch and later Furey advocated. I haven't seen any. Perhaps there is a good reason why.
 
Looking back on it I wonder why I wasn't a little wiser in who I took exercise advice from. To my knowledge neither Karl Gotch nor Matt Furey have any expertise in the field of exercise science or physical therapy.
A quick research (correct me if there's more) showed my that Matt Furey was a very successful collegiate and national level wrestler, which is huge, because competing at the highest level in the US also means competing at the highest level in the world, considering how many gold medals US wrestlers won over the years.
He then went on to train other wrestlers at collegiate level.

So for me this looks like a naturally very gifted athlete who later trained other naturally gifted folks.
Not to dimiss his routine without trying it, but why would I take training advise from him? He probably would have done well on any kind of exercise plan.
I want to learn from the guy who isn't naturally gifted, who needed a lot of trial and error, rethinking his ways and then finally succeding.
He will know and understand the struggles and limits of the average person much, much better than the gifted elite athlete and his programing/routines will reflect that.
 
A quick research (correct me if there's more) showed my that Matt Furey was a very successful collegiate and national level wrestler, which is huge, because competing at the highest level in the US also means competing at the highest level in the world, considering how many gold medals US wrestlers won over the years.
He then went on to train other wrestlers at collegiate level.

So for me this looks like a naturally very gifted athlete who later trained other naturally gifted folks.
Not to dimiss his routine without trying it, but why would I take training advise from him? He probably would have done well on any kind of exercise plan.
I want to learn from the guy who isn't naturally gifted, who needed a lot of trial and error, rethinking his ways and then finally succeding.
He will know and understand the struggles and limits of the average person much, much better than the gifted elite athlete and his programing/routines will reflect that.
Your comment brought up a good point. I don't doubt that Mr. Furey was a good wrestler. It sounds like he was a good wrestler, but I don't think being good at a sport qualifies a person to be a good athletic trainer for other people. To my way of thinking it is better to get coaching on development of strength and conditioning from people who are trained in that profession. Coaching other people on how to develop strength and conditioning requires a different set of skill than being a good wrestler or getting in good condition. Just being able to lift a bunch of weight or do a bunch of pushups doesn't qualify a person to teach other people.
I agree with what you said about learning from people who had to struggle. I don't seem to be naturally gifted as an athlete. In general I'd prefer to learn from the runt of the litter who learned how to be a good performer than the person who excelled at everything they tried.
 
I want to learn from the guy who isn't naturally gifted, who needed a lot of trial and error, rethinking his ways and then finally succeding.
He will know and understand the struggles and limits of the average person much, much better than the gifted elite athlete and his programing/routines will reflect that.


Try "Beyond Brawn" for a 400 page book about the struggles of one man who was genetically average to reach weights that were better than average.
 
I think the biggest problem is when you have trained hard for many years.
On a certainly point your body is goiing to protest.
I am 57 now and practice all kind of martial arts since the age of 15.
I have done all kind of strenghttraining to.
But now i get problems with my knee. Elbows and hand sometimes.
When you are younger you can do that or if you start older.
But years of training takes his tol.
I wouldnt belevie that when i wad 20 or 30.
But now i know.
I know that most of the guy here are for simple and sinister.
But i dont think its enough
And if i want to start with Matt furey i get problems with my knee.
I just cant use a fixed routine i just have to do what i can on a specific Day.
If my knee hurts i cant do tgu.
If my hand hurts i cant do swings.
So i try to do what i can.
What i want to say is that age and years of training dies matter.
And if you have a desk job or a fysical job.
Of course you have to have a sort of basic plan but sometimes you have to adept.
 
I think the biggest problem is when you have trained hard for many years.
On a certainly point your body is goiing to protest.

I know that most of the guy here are for simple and sinister.
But i dont think its enough

I agree that a lifetime of training often results in an accumulative effect on the body. I'm 59, have trained in some form or another my whole life and everyday is a struggle with nagging back, neck, shoulder, feet, and advanced arthritic pain.

But I'm confused as to why you would say S&S is not enough. I guess it would depend on what your goals are but for me it's been a Godsend and yes it is enough. It's the only program I've ever done that made every pain in my body actually feel better during and after the workout and no DOMS ever. As far as strength goes it fits perfect for my goals. I just wish I would've had this information 40 years ago.
 
@Robert Noftz, I agree with your basic observation which, if I can put it simply, is that it might have been better if you'd gotten strong first, then learned to endure your strength.
Steve, I like the way you summarized that.
I know from personal experience. I spent a couple of decades running, and running myself into the ground because I was weak and paid no attention to form. I put it away completely for 15 years or so, and have just started doing a little again, and it's going much better this time because I'm stronger and because I know more.

-S-
 
With simple and sinister is not enough i mean that i feel it that way.
When i did simple and sinister i missed the pull ups and dips etc.
And you can say to incoperate these on other days but formeel its supplementary training.
And i have a very bad knee. Had a surgery but it is not better. Its painfull and stiff.
So even if i want to do simple and sinister i cant because i cant do the tgu with that knee.
How do you do that?
Again for guys half my age it seems maybay stupid but they have not trained that long.
I must see that these younger guys still train the same way then as they do now.
I think the most stopped completly when they are above 50.
I see it hete with my family and friend who think i am a strange guy because of my training.
Bottomline is that a fixed routine is not for me. I have to do what i can do.
 
@lokate, the swing is the thing - if you can do that, great. If you can't do the getup, there are other things you can do. A getup alternative: put a weight overhead, do a windmill or a few, then on the last windmill, keep the weight overhead and walk for time or distance. Use the bent press instead of the windmill if you can some of the time or even all the time.

Do pullups and dips 3x/week and do S&S 4x/week.

-S-
 
With simple and sinister is not enough i mean that i feel it that way.
When i did simple and sinister i missed the pull ups and dips etc.
And you can say to incoperate these on other days but formeel its supplementary training.
And i have a very bad knee. Had a surgery but it is not better. Its painfull and stiff.
So even if i want to do simple and sinister i cant because i cant do the tgu with that knee.
How do you do that?
Again for guys half my age it seems maybay stupid but they have not trained that long.
I must see that these younger guys still train the same way then as they do now.
I think the most stopped completly when they are above 50.
I see it hete with my family and friend who think i am a strange guy because of my training.
Bottomline is that a fixed routine is not for me. I have to do what i can do.


Obviously I can't give medical advice or even know what it's like to have problems like that with my knee, but I thought I'd mention some other resources that included assisted squats in the program. I'd be curious to know if squats to (and off of) a relatively high chair still hurt your knees. The chair squats help to practice hinging with those hips and involve very little knees compared to Hindu Squats

Al Kavadlo's "Pushing the Limits" includes some great exercises for those with knee problems. That book also shows some great rehab/prehab exercises for the squat, bridge and pushup (think pushups on knees, squats from a bench or chair, beginner bridges). I think it even includes all of the Royal Court throughout the book as well.

Another part you might like is that that book is very light on programming..Al encourages you to do what you can with what you currently got. Might be a good resource.

The "recommended routine" on reddit is nicely designed and also includes assisted squats in its program, along side dips and pull ups 3 times a week. Pretty light and flexible on the leg training in that prgram if you wish

Also, get ups done with a very light weight (shoe get ups, a small weight, etc.) still have a lot of the benefits simply because the movement itself is so great, if your knee permits those. another option is a vest or a sandbag since you don't have to lunge as strictly, but you probably already knew that.

I think loaded carries would cover a lot of the same benefits as the TGU, especially waiter walkers, if those don't hurt your knees.

Glad you're listening to your body, Matt Furey and S and S arent for everyone as you can see
 
Thanks guys, i realy appriciate all the input.
Simple and sinister with another exercise.
Some Will say that it isnt simple and sinister anymore.
I have the book from al kavadlo. I read it again.
To say do simple and sinister 3-4 times a week and pull up and dips 2-3 times a week is to much as a supplementary training.
Just curious if there more older serious martial artist on this forum. Maybay even with the same problems.
And how they handle this.
If i dont train martial arts 2-3 times a week it was much less complicated
 
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