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Kettlebell Me trying to snatch with the 24

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I just tried 20 swings with the new and correct technique and it's like a whole other exercise in a way since the legs are getting more out of it and it makes the bell feel a lot lighter! Hahaha! I though that kind of leg use was cheating or turning it into a squat or something! Okay, this is WAY better! It's almost like doing a bunch of push presses mixed with what I was calling "swings". :)
 
@Kozushi I'm going to say to you what I say to all my students for the deadlift or swing:

"Don't bend your knees, but let your knees bend"

I would caution cueing yourself for "more knee bend"

The more the hips go back, the more of the "stretch" you will get. And when you explode, that elastic band is going to SNAP and will find the weight will fly up with greater power

EDIT: apparently I predicted the future with that last line!
 
Kozushi said:
Grand merci!
Okay, so, for the swing: more knee bend to allow more energy to put into the swing, then a rigid plank at the top.
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I would put like "hips go back, hamstrings fully stretched". Yes, you will need to unlock your knee joint and it will bend, but it's not a decisive point, but rather a price of pushing hips back and stretching hamstrings fully. Imagine your hams are a slingshot. Try narrower stance. Re-watching ETK video with Pavel might help, besides Anna's great analysis.
 
Okay, I was then going too far a moment ago. I think when I get this technique more dialed in I'll be able to fling about much heavier weights! Luckily for me, I already have the 40 and 48. :)
 
How about the way you set up for the first rep? You just sort of pick it up and start swinging. Looks easy, but not right. ? Maybe by paying more attention the way you set up and then hike pass the bell a bit more aggressively would help to find a more powerful hinge... ?
 
To piggyback on @Anna C 's observation, remember with the swing you are throwing the bell forward with your hips: a hard hipsnap to send the bell directly at a target in front of your chest/eyes, while tensing into the plank that Anna describes.

My computer won't allow me to see the videos, but from the one/hand swing picture, it looks like you might be "lifting" the bell in an upward trajectory vs. "throwing" it forward. If I'm wrong, it ain't the first time!
 
Kozushi said:


Swings, snatches and presses with the 24kg.
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Nice improvement on the swings! The hinge position looks much better. As you continue to get used to that, work on feeling the loading sensation in the backswing: glutes, hamstrings. Sync the kettlebell momentum with your position. Then ramp up to catapult the kettlebell forward with the force of your body going from hinge to plank. Keep the right shoulder tight and packed ... it's riding up towards your ear. Draw it down towards your hip with a tight lat and keep it there throughout the swing. This connection, timing, and forceful hip snap (forcefully moving to plank position, producing force into the ground) will project power through your torso shoulder, and arm to the kettlebell.

I think with this, you can get much more power out of the swing! Then when you carry that to your snatch, you'll be amazed how relatively easy it is on the upper body. I'd say the kettlebell snatch is 70% hips and legs, 20% shoulder, 10% arm and hand. Currently yours is more like 40%, 30%, 30%. They're really pretty good, but I think you can find a lot more efficiency! Keep up the good work and hope that helps!
 
Anna C said:
Nice improvement on the swings! The hinge position looks much better. As you continue to get used to that, work on feeling the loading sensation in the backswing: glutes, hamstrings. Sync the kettlebell momentum with your position. Then ramp up to catapult the kettlebell forward with the force of your body going from hinge to plank. Keep the right shoulder tight and packed ... it's riding up towards your ear. Draw it down towards your hip with a tight lat and keep it there throughout the swing. This connection, timing, and forceful hip snap (forcefully moving to plank position, producing force into the ground) will project power through your torso shoulder, and arm to the kettlebell.

I think with this, you can get much more power out of the swing! Then when you carry that to your snatch, you'll be amazed how relatively easy it is on the upper body. I'd say the kettlebell snatch is 70% hips and legs, 20% shoulder, 10% arm and hand. Currently yours is more like 40%, 30%, 30%. They're really pretty good, but I think you can find a lot more efficiency! Keep up the good work and hope that helps!
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Yes, many thanks! Of course that helps a lot! :)
 
Kozushi said:
Grand merci!
Okay, so, for the swing: more knee bend to allow more energy to put into the swing, then a rigid plank at the top.
Click to expand...
Swinging a 32 with very little help from your lower body, strong like a bull man. Any SFG's near you to help you get firing on all 8 cylinders ? Going to be interesting to see what you can do , when you do. Start with this brief vid by Zar Horton. Also watch his Timing the Hinge vid

 
WxHerk said:
To piggyback on @Anna C 's observation, remember with the swing you are throwing the bell forward with your hips: a hard hipsnap to send the bell directly at a target in front of your chest/eyes, while tensing into the plank that Anna describes.

My computer won't allow me to see the videos, but from the one/hand swing picture, it looks like you might be "lifting" the bell in an upward trajectory vs. "throwing" it forward. If I'm wrong, it ain't the first time!
Click to expand...
What @WxHerk said, hips are your motor, steer with your arms/hands.
 
So the conclusion, @Kozushi , is... you're too strong for your own good. ;)

Which begs a serious question: If a person has all the strength and all the mobility they need, where does that leave certain strict forms in the grand scheme of things?
 
barrak said:
So the conclusion, @Kozushi , is... you're too strong for your own good. ;)

Which begs a serious question: If a person has all the strength and all the mobility they need, where does that leave certain strict forms in the grand scheme of things?
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I was sort of thinking the same thing, not of course in the sense of "I'm already good enough", but just in the philosophical sense. Evidently, doing the swings "wrong" by doing them mainly like a big upper body pull made the move more of an, exactly that, upper body pull - so "strong like bull" haha!

But, the correct technique is about power production. This is real strength as I see it. A bullet is a tiny little piece of light metal. It's the speed behind it that makes it formidable. Same with weights. Being strong but slow isn't that great for fighting. Fighting is all about speed. Getting the technique dialed in will give me more speed, making me a lot more "dangerous".
 
barrak said:
Which begs a serious question: If a person has all the strength and all the mobility they need, where does that leave certain strict forms in the grand scheme of things?
Click to expand...

A great question! Because I'm not a form purist for the sole purpose of being a form purist. But I think there are a few reasons to seek adherence to good form -- some overlapping, some independent. Some important, some maybe not. Depends who you are and why you do what you do. But, for consideration:
  • It's a great method that has proven results and a solid knowledge base
  • Movement quality is attained while progressing skill and strength, as opposed to ever-increasing movement compensations
  • Anyone aspiring to be an SFG needs to learn to do things per that method, because it all ties together (teaching progressions, correctives, evaluation standards, passing certification testing)
  • It avoids things that have been known to cause problems for some (although not for everyone)
  • The path to power, strength, ability, and accomplishment through the method is known and well traveled -- if one strays off the path with their own technique or method, this is less true.
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Swinging a 32 with very little help from your lower body, strong like a bull man. Any SFG's near you to help you get firing on all 8 cylinders ? Going to be interesting to see what you can do , when you do. Start with this brief vid by Zar Horton. Also watch his Timing the Hinge vid

Click to expand...

Merci!
When the pandemic is done. I'll hunt down an SFG within reasonable driving distance and get some proper, direct instruction face to face. This will have to happen before I attempt any kind of certification grading. There is no replacement for oral transmission of "secrets" or of any complex knowledge really. This is true for everything I have studied so far. Studying something alone is 10 to 100 times harder I'd estimate than with a good teacher. However, it isn't useless. I've obviously gotten "strong" through imperfect swings over the past 5 years, and imperfect is better than indolence. True also for my quixotic quest to learn Korean all by myself. I got a lot of bases covered by solo study, but with a teacher it really sped up, very fast! And then going back to self-study one is in a much better position to continue advancing.
I used to wonder why the BJJ schools don't spend more time learning judo throws ('cause they're important!) but I eventually realized that you have to have someone who actually knows them in a "professional" way in order to be able to learn them. (Made friends with a BJJ brown belt and learned lots of new ground moves off of him!)

Knowing there is a whole new level possible for me to attain is very exciting regarding swings!
 
Anna C said:
A great question! Because I'm not a form purist for the sole purpose of being a form purist. But I think there are a few reasons to seek adherence to good form -- some overlapping, some independent. Some important, some maybe not. Depends who you are and why you do what you do. But, for consideration:
  • It's a great method that has proven results and a solid knowledge base
  • Movement quality is attained while progressing skill and strength, as opposed to ever-increasing movement compensations
  • Anyone aspiring to be an SFG needs to learn to do things per that method, because it all ties together (teaching progressions, correctives, evaluation standards, passing certification testing)
  • It avoids things that have been known to cause problems for some (although not for everyone)
  • The path to power, strength, ability, and accomplishment through the method is known and well traveled -- if one strays off the path with their own technique or method, this is less true.
Click to expand...
Absolutely!
Sure, I'm keeping quite "strong" with imperfect form, but as for power generation? No. I'm nowhere near where I could be. Power matters more than anything in my combat sports world. Slow, heavy strength is great to have provided one also has fast power strength. It's fast power strength that one must have. Slow, heavy strength is great but you'll lose if that's all you've got!
 
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