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Nutrition Meat, it's all you eat

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I didn't want to hijack the welcome to meat town thread.
I have been reading a bit about Dr Shawn Baker and his convert to strictly meat. Seems to be working for him. Has anyone here been on an all meat exclusive diet for some time? I know myself I'm not a fan of salads. Some veggies yes, but salads suck. I do enjoy fruit. But I think to go all meat would be a stretch for me. I like eggs and cheese.
 
I was always under the impression that you needed some veggies to help with the ph balance and inflammation, yet a lot of these meat eaters say their inflammation issues are gone.
I find it odd that most just buy typical grocery store meat and not good organic grass fed meat.
 
Some people do well, some people not so on having the absence of an entire food group and micro nutrient profile missing. Fully carnivore, fully herbivore, some do great as they have the genetic machinery to cope, perhaps. And perhaps only for a while?
I'm fully omnivorous, eating anything mildly edible. Couldn't cope with meat only, nor could I cope on a bird food diet. If made to make a choice it would be the veggie and fruit option probably.....a mental experiment. Stranded on an iceberg in the Arctic on a diet of seal blubber or on a tropical island with plantations of bananas and coconuts? I'd go for the latter, vitamin d bonus too and the option of homemade pina colada. Stuck somewhere in between I'm very fortunate to have coconuts with my haggis. I sit firmly on the omnivorous fence fully enjoying the delights of world cuisine.
 
I'm not entirely sure what the net gain would be by eliminating vegetable sources of minerals and carbs.

IIRC close to half of all protein ingestion can be converted to sugars if other sources are lacking (this is why too much protein inhibits ketosis), so if an all meat diet was intended to reduce glucose levels it probably isn't getting it done.

I cannot imagine the range of meats one would have to eat to stay healthy, you'd have to basically eat the entire animal and even then a fair amount of it would be acting as a stand in for carbohydrates if I understand the science correctly.

I don't feel 100% if I don't get a steady dose of fruits, even though I don't particularly enjoy eating them. Then again, the only foods I truly enjoy are coffee and ice cream.
 
I have read this as well. I was surprised to see that excess protein would be converted to sugars.

I mainly eat lettuce for my veg, which sucks. I enjoy veggies & fruit, like you. But for the first couple of weeks on this Keto diet, they are out.

IIRC close to half of all protein ingestion can be converted to sugars if other sources are lacking (this is why too much protein inhibits ketosis), so if an all meat diet was intended to reduce glucose levels it probably isn't getting it done.
 
I salute you Sir.

I don't know if or when I'll ever give Keto a try unless its for a specific health-related reason. The only time I don't feel pretty good on my current diet is when I don't actually eat right - not enough veg and fruit. I don't seem to have much trouble getting into the fats and proteins.


I've already pretty much given up any refined sugar except for the odd bowl of ice cream, and my bread intake is down to maybe four or five slices a week (not that I think bread is bad for most folks, any more than soy milk or tofu).
 
I'm not sure I'd claim that excess protein is converted to sugar. It's too much of a blanket statement. The human body needs some sugar, which is converted from protein if there are no carbohydrates available, but it is only done to fill the basic needs. Using the excess protein for energy is rather hard so it's not really converted to fat by itself. However, too much protein at a meal does raise insulin levels, which do affect fat storage.
 
I'm not sure I'd claim that excess protein is converted to sugar. It's too much of a blanket statement. The human body needs some sugar, which is converted from protein if there are no carbohydrates available, but it is only done to fill the basic needs. Using the excess protein for energy is rather hard so it's not really converted to fat by itself. However, too much protein at a meal does raise insulin levels, which do affect fat storage.

I think the issue is enough protein gets converted to glucose to prevent ketosis, so not really an issue of fat storage but accessibility of fat for immediate fuel needs - effective carbohydrate replacement. This is why even the traditional Inuit diet wasn't ketogenic. At that point I'm not clear why you wouldn't just eat a few carbs.
 
I'm not sure about the whole meat only thing. Obviously it works for dr baker. I think there is merit to low carb, but to avoid everything except meat is crazy. Like it's been said, we're omnivores. Base your diet around meat, milk, eggs and toss in some veggies, nuts and fruit.
 
Eating only meat?
That sound just like another fad...
By nature humans are omivores so I see absoluteley no use or reason to exclude entire food groups.
 
Not even Neanderthals were all meat, 20+% of their diet from veg. We know that virtually all indigenous peoples who rely (ied) on mostly meat would trade for veg/fruit/grain and at great effort if necessary.

Not sure how anyone can make an argument for "all meat" except as a temporary experiment or for specific medical reasons of some sort. The same goes for ketogenic diets.
 
Not sure how anyone can make an argument for "all meat" except as a temporary experiment or for specific medical reasons of some sort.

All Meat

This makes no sense.

Protein are compose of various amino acids and digestion times.

The digestion time of protein is varies. Some protein are quickly digested and absorbed such as whey (20 to 120 minutes). Some protein have an intermediate rate of absorption of around 180 minutes such as eggs, meats and soy, while other protein are have a low absorption time of up to 360 minutes.

Secondly, protein are composed of different amino acids percentages. Proteins such as Whey are high in Leucine. Leucine triggers the anabolic response.

Casein and soy protein are high in Glutamine; the amino acid that enhances reovery.

Research found that optimal Muscle Protein Synthesis occurs when different protein are combined. The combination of different protein provide a synergistic effect. Synergistic meaning the sum of the whole being more than it parts. It amount to adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

Thus, by combining a meal with Fast, Intermediate and "Slow Time Released" protein provide you with a Muscle Protein Synthesis response that is immediate and last for hours

The same goes for ketogenic diets.

Keto Diet

The biggest problem with the Ketogenic Diet is it restrictiveness. The more restrictive the diet is, the harder it is to follow for the general population.

With that said, there some benefits to the Keto Diet for specific athletes. The Keto Diet works well for ATP Energy System and Oxidative Energy System Athletes

It allows Strength Athletes (ATP Energy System) to decrease and maintain lower body fat while increasing/or maintaining muscle mass ratios.

For Endurance Athletes (Oxidative Energy System) it enable them to burn ketones for energy, preserving glucose, maintaining a reserve until it is needed. That means "Bonking" occurs later in the race.

Low carbohydrates are not very effective for Glycolytic Energy System Athlete (Soccer, Basketball, etc)

"The Effects of Ketogenic Dieting on Body Composition, Strength, Power, and Hormonal Profiles in Resistance Training Males"

This research by Drs Jake Wilson, Jeff Volek, Dom D'Agostine, etc. was just published. It provides new insights into the effectiveness of Ketogenic Diets and how to implement it to elicit a greater training response.

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance

This is one of the better book (Drs Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney) the benefits of Keto Diets.

My Personal Perspective

I implemented Keto Diet July 1, 2016 due to a metabolic condition. There was a learning curve and adjustment period for me.

As with anything new, once you become acclimated to the Keto Diet (any diet, anything), the more natural it feels. After a year on the Keto Diet, I find it easy to maintain. I enjoy the diet.

Kenny Croxdale










 
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From my understanding, neither all meat nor true ketogenic diets have ever been discovered among indigenous peoples, why would anyone want to resort to it unless for medical reasons or for brief periods - also for medical/dietary reasons? There is no evidence anywhere that Ketosis is anything other than a starvation adaptation to allow efficient use of fat in the absence/shortage of other macronutrients. If it wasn't practiced except from necessity, why resort to it out of choice, esp as it seems to be a finicky diet to dial in?

The Inuit come close to all meat diet as it was traditionally practiced, but they also were eating a lot of that meat uncooked and naturally preserved. The meat was high in glycogen as is the blubber of marine mammals. They also had/have larger liver mass capable of higher levels of gluconeogensis. It almost goes without saying that they ate far too much protein to achieve ketosis, but they also got too many plant carbs as well. On top of the animal sources they ate plenty of forage in the form of berries, kelp, tubers etc whenever it was available.


To survive on all meat you have to not only eat the entire thing, but you need to have a good variety of animals to consume - some animals right off the bat will not provide enough nutrients or fat for a human, even if you eat the entire darn thing. What would be the expected outcome of long term use of this diet, and just...why?

I cannot wrap my head around the avoidance of whole food carbs unless for specific medical reasons? Many carb-rich foods are very high in important micronutrients. Some of the longest lived communities on the planet not only eat predominantly carbs, but even include grains in their diet. IDK, maybe I try it someday, but I don't have any issues with my current diet excepet for the high cost of quality produce.
 
From my understanding, neither all meat nor true ketogenic diets have ever been discovered among indigenous peoples, why would anyone want to resort to it unless for medical reasons or for brief periods - also for medical/dietary reasons?

Let's work backwards...

For Medical Reasons

Two of the key medical reason the Keto Diet is employed for medical reason is...

1) Epilepsy: It one, if not the most effective method of controlling seizures.

2) Cancer: Research has demonstrated that it is an effective diet for controlling and in some instances the remission of cancer.

Normal cell are "Metabolically Flexible"; they can sustain life with glucose or ketones, fractured fats.

Cancer cells are "Metabolically UNflexible", their survival and growth relies on glucose. Research shows that the restriction of glucose via Ketogenic Diets, essentially starves cancer cells to death.

3) Diabetics: The diet works for diabetics. However, their medical condition does not require the same stringent controls on carbohydrate consumption, as the two above.

There is no evidence anywhere that Ketosis is anything other than a starvation adaptation to allow efficient use of fat in the absence/shortage of other macronutrients.

Keto for "Efficient Use of Body Fat"

That is one of the ancillary benefit to the Keto Diet. The body shift utilizing ketones rather than glucose.

Your has an enormous amount of fuel stored fat and not so much fuel store as glucose.

Example: 200 lb Man with 15% Body Fat

That means a 200 lb man with 15% Body Fat would have 105,000 calories as fuel
(200 lbs X 15% = 30 lbs of Body Fat. 30 lb of Fat X 3500 kcal (amount of calorie in a pound of a fat) = 105,000)

The amount of glucose stored in the body is around 500 gram. That amount to 2000 calories for energy.
(500 gram X 4 calories gram of glucose = 2000 kcal)

By shifting your body to utilizing ketones as your primary energy source, you burn more body fat. With that said, there another alternative that can be used. We'll get to that in a minute.

Keto "Starvation Adaptation"

Good point. It mimics starvation without placing you in starvation. Research has demonstrated a multiple health benefits from this and other type or "Calorie Restriction" protocols.

If it wasn't practiced except from necessity, why resort to it out of choice, esp as it seems to be a finicky diet to dial in?

Why?

Keto is an effective method of increasing muscle mass while decreasing body fat. Research indicates it increase Leucine levels. Leucine is the amino acid responsible for the maintenance and growth of muscle. It increase mitochondria, the "Power house of the Cell", etc.

"Fickle Diet"

It not what would be termed a fickle diet.

As I stated in my previous post, the restrictiveness of the diet (any/all diets) is what make it hard.

The more restrictive the diet is the harder it is for the majority of individuals.

The Inuit come close to all meat diet as it was traditionally practiced, but they also were eating a lot of that meat uncooked and naturally preserved. The meat was high in glycogen as is the blubber of marine mammals.

NO Glycogen In Blubber

Blubber is all fat, there's no glycogen in it.

They also had/have larger liver mass capable of higher levels of gluconeogensis.

Please present the research data on this.

It almost goes without saying that they ate far too much protein to achieve ketosis, but they also got too many plant carbs as well. On top of the animal sources they ate plenty of forage in the form of berries, kelp, tubers etc whenever it was available.

Please present the research data on this, as well.

To survive on all meat you have to not only eat the entire thing, but you need to have a good variety of animals

I cannot wrap my head around the avoidance of whole food carbs unless for specific medical reasons?

I understand. That was my initial response. However, once you delve into this, you find research that will provide you with a better understanding of Keto; it benefits for health and athletes.

[quote[Many carb-rich foods are very high in important micronutrients. Some of the longest lived communities on the planet not only eat predominantly carbs, but even include grains in their diet. [/quote]

High Fiber Low Carbohydrates

The most nutritious carbohydrates primarily are high in fiber and low in carbohydrates.

Research by Dr Donald Layman demonstrated that the body is able to effectively process around 30 gram of carbohydrate per meal.

Chronically high carbohydrate meals spike insulin. Chronic elevated insulin levels promote increases in body fat and a multitude of health issues.

As per nutritionist Jay Robb, "Insulin is a fat maker..."

Foods of Color

Dr Jonny Bowden, PhD Nutrition has stated the best food are those of color. Those foods are high fiber and low in carbohydrates.

High fiber low carbohydrate foods are also "Low Glycemic Index Foods".

IDK, maybe I try it someday, but I don't have any issues with my current diet excepet for the high cost of quality produce.

Learning

It requires researching the topic information and the practical application, experimenting with it.

The Keto Diet has worked for me and other on several levels. While I am a proponent of the Keto Diet, I don't recommend it to the majority of individuals. That because...

1) It require more discipline and dedication that the average individual has.

2) The Keto Diet with most individuals is not a Keto Diet. Most individuals are really consuming a High Protein, High Fat, a Low Carbohydrate Diet. Keto protein consumption need to be low to moderate, protein intake no higher than 25% of your caloric intake.

The average individual does not take time to educate themselves on its application.

Intermittent Fasting

I recommend this method. It is essentially elicits some of the same benefits as the Keto Diet.

It is simple, Eat or Don't Eat. Nothing to fix, count. Virtually no time required.

It is something everyone has done at one time or another, miss or skip a meal.

"Metabolic Flexible"

One of the main advantates of Intermittent Fasting is the body learn to efficiently utilize glucose or ketones for energy.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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