Medial knee pain with swings

Benjamin Renaud

Level 7 Valued Member
Hello, I would like to know if anyone has had any kind of experience with medial knee pain with KB swings?

Let me explain, some 6-7 years ago I started training after a long period of inactivity. I jumped into the Insanity DVD program. After doing the first 30 days twice, I had to stop the first time and started again a few weeks later, I developed pain at the medial knee tendons. Basically the tendons forming the goose foot. Long story short it took years (2-3) to heal and be pain free.

During that time I discovered KBs and SF. Low back issues coupled to my knee issues kept me from being able to do S&S like I would of wanted to. Finally last year I started doing swings again and felt really good doing them. No back or knee pain, technique was good (I see an SFG once or twice a year) until after a few months of swings, tendon pain came back so I stopped doing swings again. This was early April 2020.

I took some time to rest ( about 2 weeks) and then tried to build back the load tolerance of my tendons doing KB DLs and kickstand DLs. Pain disappeared within the first weeks and everything seemed to go smoothly until earlier this month pain came back. I guess I had overloaded the tendons again even though I was trying to progress slowly and was adding volume/intensity in a staggered fashion, using a bell size adding volume, then going up a size while reducing volume to slowly add more volume until I'd move up a bell size again.

I have to say that I've seen 2 physios in the past for this issue. First one had me work on glute strength and activation which helped with my glutes but never with my knee tendon health. Second one I saw, pain was almost gone, mainly discomfort and tendon tightness, thought my issues were referred pain and didn't give me any exercises to do.

So my question again is: has anyone here dealt with pes anserinus tendinopathy? Either as a coach or a trainee? And if so does anyone have any practical advice other than seek help from a medical professional?

Thank you to anyone that might share something helpful.
 
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Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
pes anserinus tendinopathy
Not sure if exactly this, but as you might remember from my training log I did have some knee pain for some time earlier this year. I am pretty sure that the main cause was from sitting (or lying) with straight legs propped up on another chair or stool. This pain then popped up during squats and sometimes when my lockout during swings was too aggressive.

Maybe you are spending some time in a posture that might stress the region in question?
 

Benjamin Renaud

Level 7 Valued Member
Not sure if exactly this, but as you might remember from my training log I did have some knee pain for some time earlier this year. I am pretty sure that the main cause was from sitting (or lying) with straight legs propped up on another chair or stool. This pain then popped up during squats and sometimes when my lockout during swings was too aggressive.

Maybe you are spending some time in a posture that might stress the region in question?
Thanks for your answer, unfortunately it might be true in a way, I kneel a lot when at work. But it is definitely not the only reason because the issue came back while I was in my off season early this spring. And it also subsided while I was working only to come back 2 weeks before I finished my work season.
 

Don Fairbanks

SFG II
Certified Instructor
Hello, I would like to know if anyone has had any kind of experience with medial knee pain with KB swings?

Let me explain, some 6-7 years ago I started training after a long period of inactivity. I jumped into the Insanity DVD program. After doing the first 30 days twice, I had to stop the first time and started again a few weeks later, I developed pain at the medial knee tendons. Basically the tendons forming the goose foot. Long story short it took years (2-3) to heal and be pain free.

During that time I discovered KBs and SF. Low back issues coupled to my knee issues kept me from being able to do S&S like I would of wanted to. Finally last year I started doing swings again and felt really good doing them. No back or knee pain, technique was good (I see an SFG once or twice a year) until after a few months of swings, tendon pain came back so I stopped doing swings again. This was early April 2020.

I took some time to rest ( about 2 weeks) and then tried to build back the load tolerance of my tendons doing KB DLs and kickstand DLs. Pain disappeared within the first weeks and everything seemed to go smoothly until earlier this month pain came back. I guess I had overloaded the tendons again even though I was trying to progress slowly and was adding volume/intensity in a staggered fashion, using a bell size adding volume, then going up a size while reducing volume to slowly add more volume until I'd move up a bell size again.

I have to say that I've seen 2 physios in the past for this issue. First one had me work on glute strength and activation which helped with my glutes but never with my knee tendon health. Second one I saw, pain was almost gone, mainly discomfort and tendon tightness, thought my issues were referred pain and didn't give me any exercises to do.

So my question again is: has anyone here dealt with pes anserinus tendinopathy? Either as a coach or a trainee? And if so does anyone have any practical advice other than seek help from a medical professional?

Thank you to anyone that might share something helpful.
Mobility, smashing, and static stretching of quads,hams,calves,ankles,feet.
 

Don Fairbanks

SFG II
Certified Instructor
Hello, I would like to know if anyone has had any kind of experience with medial knee pain with KB swings?

Let me explain, some 6-7 years ago I started training after a long period of inactivity. I jumped into the Insanity DVD program. After doing the first 30 days twice, I had to stop the first time and started again a few weeks later, I developed pain at the medial knee tendons. Basically the tendons forming the goose foot. Long story short it took years (2-3) to heal and be pain free.

During that time I discovered KBs and SF. Low back issues coupled to my knee issues kept me from being able to do S&S like I would of wanted to. Finally last year I started doing swings again and felt really good doing them. No back or knee pain, technique was good (I see an SFG once or twice a year) until after a few months of swings, tendon pain came back so I stopped doing swings again. This was early April 2020.

I took some time to rest ( about 2 weeks) and then tried to build back the load tolerance of my tendons doing KB DLs and kickstand DLs. Pain disappeared within the first weeks and everything seemed to go smoothly until earlier this month pain came back. I guess I had overloaded the tendons again even though I was trying to progress slowly and was adding volume/intensity in a staggered fashion, using a bell size adding volume, then going up a size while reducing volume to slowly add more volume until I'd move up a bell size again.

I have to say that I've seen 2 physios in the past for this issue. First one had me work on glute strength and activation which helped with my glutes but never with my knee tendon health. Second one I saw, pain was almost gone, mainly discomfort and tendon tightness, thought my issues were referred pain and didn't give me any exercises to do.

So my question again is: has anyone here dealt with pes anserinus tendinopathy? Either as a coach or a trainee? And if so does anyone have any practical advice other than seek help from a medical professional?

Thank you to anyone that might share something helpful.
Some good smashes begin at 3:18 of vid. Works for more than Loud Creaky knee title.

 

Benjamin Renaud

Level 7 Valued Member
@Don Fairbanks , thanks this highlights one of the things I was missing this summer in my rehab. I wasn't doing any soft tissue work or stretching.

When I first rehabbed it a couple of years ago, stretching and soft tissue work helped in the later stages, when I was mostly pain free but my tendons were still not back to 100%.
 

Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
@Benjamin Renaud I was gonna suggest Steven Low work, but I found you are already familiar with it.

Have you tried low weight high rep? It worked wonders for me (other tendinosis though). If hip extension is bothering you, maybe you can see if knee flexion works better during rehab.
 

Benjamin Renaud

Level 7 Valued Member
@Benjamin Renaud I was gonna suggest Steven Low work, but I found you are already familiar with it.

Have you tried low weight high rep? It worked wonders for me (other tendinosis though). If hip extension is bothering you, maybe you can see if knee flexion works better during rehab.
Thanks for the suggestion, I did read through Steven Low's book. I tried implementing something in the lines of what he suggests. When swings started hurting in the spring I took a couple of days off and then started easy with some KB DLs to slowly build up load tolerance of my tendons. They might not have been enough though, or the kickstand DLs might have been a bit too much too soon. I'll probably go a similar route again, but doing more squats and more soft tissue work and light stretching.

I'm wondering if other hamstring dominant exercises might be better choices when my tendons heal and can take more work. Like nordic curls or hamstring curls. They might be too risky though if I try them too early.
 

Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks for the suggestion, I did read through Steven Low's book. I tried implementing something in the lines of what he suggests. When swings started hurting in the spring I took a couple of days off and then started easy with some KB DLs to slowly build up load tolerance of my tendons. They might not have been enough though, or the kickstand DLs might have been a bit too much too soon. I'll probably go a similar route again, but doing more squats and more soft tissue work and light stretching.

I'm wondering if other hamstring dominant exercises might be better choices when my tendons heal and can take more work. Like nordic curls or hamstring curls. They might be too risky though if I try them too early.
When I had elbow pain, I never knew if it was biceps tendonitis, or some other muscle in the forearm, or who knows what. I just did chigh rep curls in a bunch of different positions such as hammer curls, regular curls, inverted grip curls, etc. I also did forearm rotations holding a dumbbell, and that hit the forearm too. I never knew what I had, but after a while the pain was gone and didnt come back.

What I´m trying to say is that sometimes its not easy to know what the problem is, but if you move the area without pain in different manners, it might heal. Maybe nordic curls are a bit too extreme, but if you try light hamstring curls, light deadlifts of different types (conventional, sumo, stiff legged, etc), and if you manage to do high reps with no pain, you might solve it. At least this was my experience with a similar problem on a different joint.
 

Benjamin Renaud

Level 7 Valued Member
When I had elbow pain, I never knew if it was biceps tendonitis, or some other muscle in the forearm, or who knows what. I just did chigh rep curls in a bunch of different positions such as hammer curls, regular curls, inverted grip curls, etc. I also did forearm rotations holding a dumbbell, and that hit the forearm too. I never knew what I had, but after a while the pain was gone and didnt come back.

What I´m trying to say is that sometimes its not easy to know what the problem is, but if you move the area without pain in different manners, it might heal. Maybe nordic curls are a bit too extreme, but if you try light hamstring curls, light deadlifts of different types (conventional, sumo, stiff legged, etc), and if you manage to do high reps with no pain, you might solve it. At least this was my experience with a similar problem on a different joint.
Thanks again for your input. I'll try to add more variety than I did last time, being careful to monitor everything. I'll go for more volume and lower intensity.

I use a similar approach to yours for my elbows too. Higher rep curls, rotation etc with 5lbs clubbells.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Benjamin Renaud, there isn't much to do with an overuse injury except to do less. But many knee issues with swings can be resolved by tweaking your stance. I know that my right foot has to be a little more turned out than my left - that's my particular thing. Maybe you need to spend a little bit of time making adjustments to your swing stance. You might post a video here for comment as well.

-S-
 

Benjamin Renaud

Level 7 Valued Member
@Benjamin Renaud, there isn't much to do with an overuse injury except to do less. But many knee issues with swings can be resolved by tweaking your stance. I know that my right foot has to be a little more turned out than my left - that's my particular thing. Maybe you need to spend a little bit of time making adjustments to your swing stance. You might post a video here for comment as well.

-S-
Thanks Steve, I know that I probably did a bit too much too fast last spring when my issue came back. I hadn't thought about adjusting my stance, I felt it was ok but I'll look into it when getting back to swings. I'll post an older video because I'm not doing swings at the moment to not aggravate my issue.

I am doing better in the sense that pain and tightness at the tendons is mostly gone, but tendon strength is not back to normal that's for sure.

This is a video from this summer.

 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Which knee? Your turnout looks pretty uneven in the video. I might try turning your right foot out a little more, and/or your left foot a little less.

Just as an experiment, of course, to see how it feels.

-S-
 

Benjamin Renaud

Level 7 Valued Member
Which knee? Your turnout looks pretty uneven in the video. I might try turning your right foot out a little more, and/or your left foot a little less.

Just as an experiment, of course, to see how it feels.

-S-
You are right, I hadn't paid attention to that at all. I don't film myself swinging very often, I'll make sure to make it a habit in the future to better analyse my form.

Unfortunately it's both knees, and it's an issue that first came up years ago, a long time before I even tried swings. So I know it's not something that swings caused in the first place, but swings do put a strain on the hamstring tendons and that lead to my issue coming back.

Thanks for your input.
 

Nate

Level 5 Valued Member
I've noticed that my medial knee feels stressed if my feet are not in a jump stance (shoulder width, toes forward). Wider stance or toes out is not a good alignment for an explosive hip/knee extension for me.
 
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