Off-Topic Meditation/mindfulness to combat depression and anxiety

[Chrisdavisjr]

I've been looking into beginning to practise some form of regular meditation/mindfulness in order to help with depression and anxiety and was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions as to particular types of meditation that they find useful in keeping a clear head.

Background info: I've suffered on and off with depression and anxiety for the last 19 or so years. At certain times it's been easier to deal with than at others and I have, in the past, taken prescription medication to this end. Recently things have been fairly difficult once again, however I'm very reluctant to pursue the pharmaceutical route as, based on my own personal experience, it seems to cause almost as many problems as it alleviates and I have no idea how it will affect my strength training, which is currently one of the most important things in my life.

If there are any other strategies anyone has found particularly effective in staying mentally strong, I'd be very interested to hear about them.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Anna C]

Great topic. I'll ramble a bit, and maybe there will be something useful in it.

Exercise is a great approach. I think it would help the mental health of a great many people who aren't doing it, and I feel strongly that it helps me. But it doesn't always cure all, as you can probably attest, since I know you're consistent with your training.

I think mindfulness meditation can be very helpful. To describe it simply, you sit quietly for a little while and practice a different thought pattern. This new thought pattern eventually becomes a more habitual way of thinking all the time and can really help your overall experience and view of your life.

So here is the practice of mindfulness (in my simple view...) - as you sit, you focus on something. Focusing on the breath has many advantages, so this is usually the target. Advantages such as, 1) it's always there, 2) it naturally slows and regulates a bit as you focus on it, 3) it connects your mental self to your physical self. Practice observing the breath without judgement. If you find yourself thinking judgemental about it (it's too fast, it's too slow, it's too loud, anything), just observe that you have done that and then refocus on just the breath.

As you are comfortable, expand your awareness to other things in the present moment. A noise outside, your cat's meow, the pressure on your feet. Observe without judgement. Again, if you find yourself thinking something judgemental about that thing that you observe, (The neighbor is home, didn't they already go to work? The cat is hungry, didn't I just feed it? My feet are uncomfortable, I think I need some different shoes... etc.), observe that you have done that, and re-focus your mind on just observing. Refocus your attention on the breath as needed.

How this translates to life is that the gazillion inputs we get cease to make us react so much and we allow ourselves to have a neutral and/or pleasant reaction where previously we might tend to let every little thing remind us of something that annoys us, something that we feel we're failing at, or something we need to do that's weighing us down. Also it gets us out of the habit of judging everything that happens as good or bad, and instead just observing it and accepting it for what it is. An example we can all relate to is our physical training session. Do you feel the need each day to assess it as a good session or somehow a bad session? Practice accepting it as is, without judgement. Then try to do that with other things in your life. Pretty soon that new habit will ease up a lot of pressure and negativity that may be present in your mind.

 

[Adam R Mundorf]

I've been looking into beginning to practise some form of regular meditation/mindfulness in order to help with depression and anxiety and was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions as to particular types of meditation that they find useful in keeping a clear head.

Background info: I've suffered on and off with depression and anxiety for the last 19 or so years. At certain times it's been easier to deal with than at others and I have, in the past, taken prescription medication to this end. Recently things have been fairly difficult once again, however I'm very reluctant to pursue the pharmaceutical route as, based on my own personal experience, it seems to cause almost as many problems as it alleviates and I have no idea how it will affect my strength training, which is currently one of the most important things in my life.

If there are any other strategies anyone has found particularly effective in staying mentally strong, I'd be very interested to hear about them.

Thank you for reading.

Meditation is definitely a great thing for everybody.

1. I recommend looking into some works of the Stoics like Marcus Aurelius (btw was the name of my old account on here) and Epictetus.
   1. Marcus Aurelius Quotes - BrainyQuote
2. Be aware of your caffeine intake. If you drink too much it can make the symptoms of anxiety worse.
3. Be extremely mindful of your inner dialogue.
4. Be grateful and show gratitude for everything that happens in your life.
5. Become obsessed with a productive/healthy hobby like lifting. As long as it isn't done to excess.
6. Make a program minimum for a healthy mind that you'll do everyday.
   1. I suggest meditation and a journal.
7. Don't be afraid to see a medical professional. Even if it's just somebody to talk too without prescribing any medicine.
8. We're all here for you. If you every need anyone to talk too just shoot a message or make a post.
   1. There's such a variety of different and wise people on here, that collectively we make a formidable force of information. If we don't know the answer, we can reach someone who does.

Things get better. The past is over, the future hasn't happened yet, so all we have is right now. Live in the present but prepare for the future. Your thoughts dictate how you will handle situations so keep them positive, grateful and clear. We all walk this path together and you're NEVER alone.

 

[crazycanuck]

The Headspace app was a good one for me for just getting into meditation. After that I discovered the Insight Timer app, which has over 10 000 guided meditations on it sorted by teacher,length, type and has a free and paid version. If you want your own silence, besides the guided meditations they provide a timer in which you can set your own duration and bells. They have just started offering courses on the app in the last few months, (usually around 6.95 for 10 lessons of about 10-15 min), and there is one that is free for people new to meditation.

Anna and Adam make great points in their posts. Being able to observe your own thoughts, almost as an outsider, helps you avoid being swept up in them. You may only be able to sit 5 min or less, in the stillness or listening to guidance, and almost right away your thoughts may wander. It happens to everyone, but like an observer just note it, watch that thought float by, and return to breathing or a mantra or whatever you are using, vs condemning of yourself for being distracted like a lot of us tend to do.

Over time, you will hone this skill and find it bleeds over into many areas of your life, like training, reactions to stress, your relationships with others, and your relationship with...you.

Like Adam says in his post, you are not alone.

 

[User 7569]

When you look in the mirror, and you don't see that glint in your eye anymore. Can't take care of yourself. Can't take care of your pets. Feel tired all the time. Voice and body get weak. Depression is seriously real!

Anna and Adam already gave you some good stuff..

a lot of depression / anxiety advice comes out to be rather similar...the basics are the basics for a reason

the truth is you will probably always struggle with this to some extent. It is part of the human condition. the question is, how can you manage it?

I admire you for exercising daily, eating healthy/mindfully (I remember you're vegan, right?). I can tell you're a positive person just from my interactions with you on here.

I'm on 2 medications for depression/moods right now right now. Gag. I'm trying to taper off, but need the help of a qualified psychiatrist in order to do it correctly (currently between psychiatrists). There was a point in my life when I felt I really needed the medication, and it did help bring me out of some tough times. I commend you for staying the "natural" route, as the meds do come with a lot of drawbacks. You really gotta watch those doctors and stand firm on the fact that you want to do this naturally.

My biggest catalyst was becoming more involved with my Uncle's family. Being surrounded by people who are genuinely supportive is huge. Not everyone has this luxury, but most of us can usually find someone to lean on in times of weakness. Truly supportive people can see your value and strength even what you are temporarily disabled. They know you will be strong again one day. At that point you give back, and the cycle of support keeps going.

You're a solid dude. You can be honest with yourself and how you feel. You know where you want to go, what you should be doing. Sometimes you gotta seriously re-evaluate your daily routine, and sometimes you just gotta ride the wave and accept that you don't feel well for the time being.

One common theme I've noticed after going through serious bouts of depression is that I'm glad I didn't do anything drastic to myself while I was out of my right mind! Always very glad. Depression is intoxicating in its own way. It alters your reality. You know all this.

I hope you feel better man.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Seated breath meditation. I cannot do a full Lotus so normally use a Burmese or just kneel on a cushion. As long as your back is straight and are able to relax the shoulders. De-focus the eyes and stare at the wall, stare at the floor - doesn't matter but too much looking around is not helpful.

An easy beginning is to simply count exhales to 10 and start over. You can add a little effort on the exhale and hold it for a few seconds longer than the inhale - expand your lower abdomen and exhale a bit past your normal relaxed exhale stop. This theoretically has positive effect on the vagus nerve as well as occupying your brain with a persistent non-ruminative task. As thoughts come into your head you just return to the count and the feeling of abdominal breathing.

The goal if there is a single defined one is to feel rather than think, so take stock of the sounds reaching your ears, the sensation of your body sitting/kneeling, the taste in your mouth - just run through the senses and back again, all the while breathing away. By taking a little conscious control over your breath it anchors the mind a bit - though in time this is something you can allow to drop away and then you're just paying attention to the breathing.

Your mind will constantly try to introduce BS, don't be frustrated if you realize you've stopped counting and are thinking about stuff. Just reset and continue - feel instead of think - your brain is always trying to create speculative thought and reality modelling, much of it not helpful and unoriginal.

In time you can use both the below threshold breathing to calm yourself, and the ability to at least recognize your thoughts and realize most of them aren't worth following. It helps with being able to direct them more constructively, and to change how you react to them and the larger world when they get away from you.

I have not used this for depression expressly, but I have tamed what used to be a raging temper and improved my quality of life - right up there with quitting smoking.

Edit to add:
I have to add that many people if not most will wrestle with this - sort of a solitary fight but universally understood to some extent. I've had my own issues and come out the other side more balanced, relaxed, and happy - though at one point I was very glad I no longer had any handguns in the house. Sometimes to be strong you have to let some stuff go - holding on to too much was a big part of my troubles.

 

[Waryrenn]

I have been searching for a technique which can be applied when needed in real world situations. I found that practicing mindfulness at set times had some positives, but didn't actually carry over to when I needed something to help cope in difficult situations.

I found that mindfulness seemed to be about accepting emotions, whereas I was looking for a technique to control emotions.
However both Anna C and North Coast Miller describe how mindfulness can achieve this. I struggled with that aspect but now I think I should certainly try again.
@Anna C / @North Coast Miller, when did this start to benefit outside of practice sessions [some sort of mindfulness what the heck effect..?]

 

[Waryrenn]

A few considerations from my experiences:

What I have found beneficial so far are visualisations (such as visualising negative pollutants leaving body. Or visualising positive energy entering body.
I have found that muscle relaxants (as opposed to medications) have been useful supporting this (CBD)

I have found there is a difference between trying "not to feel bad" , and trying to "feel good". I think there are different approaches to both.

Also anything which helps to recognise emotions, not suppressing them, has helped live a fuller life.

Learning a little about the cortex inhibitory function and resting the cortex was interesting and useful, but not sure if this is science based or placebo.

Illnesses such as those described can cause / be accompanied by secondary (mental) illnesses which are masked by the primary symptoms. Be aware of this.

Depression is second biggest killer of young men. Don't totally write off medical assistance, as this might make it harder to reach out if it gets very bad, so have a plan that you know you will stick to, for getting some support if necessary.

In this weeks Wandering Weights Dan John said that a cross-cultural study demonstrated there is an almost universal U-shaped happiness curve: happiness dips from 20-50 then rises again. So if all else fails wait until you're blowing out 50 candles, then things should start looking up all by their self!

 

[North Coast Miller]

I have been searching for a technique which can be applied when needed in real world situations. I found that practicing mindfulness at set times had some positives, but didn't actually carry over to when I needed something to help cope in difficult situations.

I found that mindfulness seemed to be about accepting emotions, whereas I was looking for a technique to control emotions.
However both Anna C and North Coast Miller describe how mindfulness can achieve this. I struggled with that aspect but now I think I should certainly try again.
@Anna C / @North Coast Miller, when did this start to benefit outside of practice sessions [some sort of mindfulness what the heck effect..?]

I immediately improved my martial arts ability within weeks of starting. It took a few months to completely quit smoking.

I was rear ended on my way to work along a very congested commuter corridor (a drive that used to leave me in a fury several times a week) and to my surprise I was totally cool to the guy, didn't even bother calling my insurance or PD and later straightened out the bumper on my pickup without any lingering animosity. For reference, prior to undertaking this I once spit on a guy's shoe at a gas station just because he cut me off in traffic.

For me it was not about controlling anything but my runaway thoughts. Life is about feeling and thoughts and the words that define most thought are a crude stand in for our feelings. You can live your life, but you cannot think it. Some thought is constructive and much is simply nonsense or repetitive thought that seems only to reinforce a manufactured idea of self. We don't need a lot of it and when it becomes too circular it can be particularly harmful.

And then I still have bad days etc but am way ahead of where I was when it comes to awareness. That sort of thoughtless being can be ovelayed with day to day reactions to others, allowing a more genuine interaction with them (and ourselves), though it is all to easy to slip back into BS. We are still human and prone to getting angry, confused etc, but we can be aware of all this too.

I lean heavily on Buddhist teachings for a lot of this as it relates to observing the self - "I am aware of feeling an angry feeling" "I am aware I am feeling a depressed feeling" etc.

 

[Waryrenn]

Life is about feeling and thoughts and the words that define most thought are a crude stand in for our feelings. You can live your life, but you cannot think it. Some thought is constructive and much is simply nonsense or repetitive thought that seems only to reinforce a manufactured idea of self. We don't need a lot of it

That is beautifully expressed. It's resonated very deeply for me.
Will be revisiting this and the exercise you mention (quoted below)

count exhales to 10 and start over. You can add a little effort on the exhale and hold it for a few seconds longer than the inhale - expand your lower abdomen and exhale a bit past your normal relaxed exhale stop. This theoretically has positive effect on the vagus nerve as well as occupying your brain with a persistent non-ruminative task

Perhaps an update for your handle - North Coast Buddha

 

[Anna C]

I found that mindfulness seemed to be about accepting emotions, whereas I was looking for a technique to control emotions.
However both Anna C and North Coast Miller describe how mindfulness can achieve this. I struggled with that aspect but now I think I should certainly try again.
@Anna C / @North Coast Miller, when did this start to benefit outside of practice sessions [some sort of mindfulness what the heck effect..?]

I think it goes back to practcing being the non-judgemental observer. Have the emotions... let them exist, recognize and respect them (as they say, "sit with them"... meditation can be useful for that too)... but observe them with that detachment that you practice in meditation and you realize that they don't define you, therefore they don't control you. Back to the examples - just as you hear the cat's meow without following the thought into whether it means the cat is hungry, etc., you feel the emotion - for example, disappointment - without assessing whether that means you are weak, or your relationship with a person has changed, or that you had too-high expectations. You just allow yourself to feel the disappointment, without judgement. It will run its course and then you move on.

BTW I don't claim any expertise in this area -- I've practiced meditation enough to learn some of the mindset and feel the effects and bring some of the habits into my life, but I'm not a regular meditator.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

Thanks, everyone for your excellent responses and support; there's a lot of insight here and plenty to think about. I definitely think it's time I put together a 'program minimum' (as @Adam R Mundorf so nicely put it) for my mental health and I shall look into all of your recommendations.

It can be difficult to openly discuss matters relating to mental health and, although we are generally seeing a greater level of awareness and acceptance of the difficulties people face, it's still not something that is discussed as openly and frankly as it should be. It's certainly something I could be a lot more open with my immediate friends and family about. I'll find myself thinking "I don't want to trouble or worry anyone about it," which is anything but constructive; I doubt I'd say that if I'd broken my leg, for example.

I find it really heartening that this discussion has garnered so many well-considered and empathetic responses and I am, as always, very glad to be a part of what I consider to be a truly outstanding online community.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[LukeV]

I remember years ago watching my child, then two or three, pick up a snail in the garden and turning it this way and that in her chubby little fingers she looked intensely at every part from every angle. It was only much later that I appreciated that as a mindfulness approach. And while I avoid snails it pretty much sums up my mindfulness approach today. Just pick something up and observe everything about it, even the smallest most insignificant details. Quiet the mind and focus on the details. As I am a bit of a binge eater my speciality is coming to a detailed understanding of biscuit packets and beer bottles. But practically anything will do. Good luck and thanks for sharing your story

 

[Antti]

I agree with the meditation. Counting to ten and focusing on the numbers and the breathing is a good start. Let the thoughts come and go. Just be. With time you will learn to take some of the mindset from the practice to your everyday life. I would recommend to make the habit daily. Maybe a longer session in the morning, maybe some shorter sessions throughout the day. GTG?

Another idea is to surround yourself with the right kind of people and engage in some positive activity. The exact details depend on you.

 

[Pavel Macek]

@Chrisdavisjr

Not a medical advice - you shall listen to your doc. I will give you just few tips:

- cold showers and any other type of tempering and cold exposure
- diet (real food - Paleo/Primal/Ancestral)
- meditation (a book called Zen Training has great step by step guide)
- exercise (the type of exercise we recommend and do at StrongFirst)
- enough sun, walks in the nature, enough sleep

Sum of all above works magic.

Most important thing is: you are not alone - we are all here for you brother.

 

[Carl in Dover]

I did not realize how much I needed to read all of this, until after I had read all of it.

I got something out of every post.......

Carl in Dover

 

[Matts]

meditation and mindfulness and all the methods discussed above work because they focus us on the present, which is the only thing that exists. Anxiety is undue focus on the future, depression is undue focus on the past- always work hard to have the best present possible!

 

[krg]

The Headspace app was a good one for me for just getting into meditation. After that I discovered the Insight Timer app, which has over 10 000 guided meditations on it sorted by teacher,length, type and has a free and paid version. If you want your own silence, besides the guided meditations they provide a timer in which you can set your own duration and bells. They have just started offering courses on the app in the last few months, (usually around 6.95 for 10 lessons of about 10-15 min), and there is one that is free for people new to meditation.

Anna and Adam make great points in their posts. Being able to observe your own thoughts, almost as an outsider, helps you avoid being swept up in them. You may only be able to sit 5 min or less, in the stillness or listening to guidance, and almost right away your thoughts may wander. It happens to everyone, but like an observer just note it, watch that thought float by, and return to breathing or a mantra or whatever you are using, vs condemning of yourself for being distracted like a lot of us tend to do.

Over time, you will hone this skill and find it bleeds over into many areas of your life, like training, reactions to stress, your relationships with others, and your relationship with...you.

Like Adam says in his post, you are not alone.

+1 for the Headspace app - very easy way in to mindfulness / meditation.

@Chrisdavisjr - I think you're UK based? Our NHS mental health services are stretched to put it mildly. If you have the finances available it would be worth finding a private therapist specialising in CBT for a few sessions. At it's best it can give you the ability to keep yourself in check and mentally healthy.

Obviously though, if you feel you are seriously struggling then regular health practitioner should be your first port of call as a matter of urgency.

 

[Bret S.]

Disclaimer: Not medical advice

Chris there have been a whole bunch of studies done on mental health and treating different conditions with supplements, sometimes high doses and sometimes not. The work spans decades and is buried because vitamin therapy can't be patented and frankly there's no money in it for the drug companies.
Pioneers like Abram Hoffer and Andrew Saul have done marvelous work in this area. A few books that have helped me tremendously are:

'Niacin The Real Story'
by - Abram Hoffer MD PhD
Andrew W Saul PhD
Harold D Foster PhD

'Doctor Yourself'
by - Andrew W Saul PhD

'Orthomolecular Medicine For Everyone'
by - Abram Hoffer MD PhD
Andrew W Saul PhD

Sometimes what we think of as 'mental illness' or 'mental problems' aren't that at all. I have struggled with depression on and off throughout my life but not much anymore. For me it was tied to blood sugar ups and downs mostly I believe. Now I control blood sugar and take supplements. Niacin, fish oils and Vitamin C in higher doses have me feeling no signs of depression even when I probably 'should be' feeling it.

Plenty of good advice above and I especially like what @Pavel Macek had to say as it fits with my own experience. Usually the answer lies in the right combination of solutions, on the Orthomolecular side of the coin it helps a little to know it could be something physiological rather than psychological and the 'am I crazy?' thoughts tend to carry less weight.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

+1 for the Headspace app - very easy way in to mindfulness / meditation.

@Chrisdavisjr - I think you're UK based? Our NHS mental health services are stretched to put it mildly. If you have the finances available it would be worth finding a private therapist specialising in CBT for a few sessions. At it's best it can give you the ability to keep yourself in check and mentally healthy.

Obviously though, if you feel you are seriously struggling then regular health practitioner should be your first port of call as a matter of urgency.

I am indeed based in the UK. I was actually fortunate enough to get some one-on-one time with a therapist through the NHS via a local mental health scheme, which was really helpful and helped me get through the worst of it; I'm just in the process of putting what I've learned into action. Meditation/mindfulness would go very much hand-in-hand with the CBT so I'm keen to start practising it to see if it 'carries over' to what I went over in the sessions.

I also have medication on standby as a 'last resort'. As I mentioned, my previous experiences with antidepressant medication were not positive, however my attitude towards the meds back then was very different to how it is now: Back then I just wanted a 'magic pill' that would make everything better and, when it didn't work, I just kept getting prescribed higher dosages.

I don't blame the doctors for this; it was at my insistence that the dosages were increased. Ultimately, it was making the decision to stop taking the medication that was a significant first step in making myself better, but it took me a while to get there. Doing something positive to actually help myself seemed to trigger a series of positive changes and improvements in my attitude and emotional state.

I should make it clear that I am in no way against the idea of taking medication and it can be incredibly beneficial or even absolutely lifesaving in the right circumstances but it needs to be taken responsibly and will probably not fix everything on its own.