Kettlebell Minimalist Kettlebell Hypertrophy Program

[Deleted member 316]

Food for thought and I'm sort of playing devils advocate. The biggest proponent of S&S is Pavel Macek. He's throwing weight around some of us can only dream of. He has a muscular lean physique. Not a hypertrophy type physique per say, but impressive none the less. So can s&s build muscle? Yes, but maybe not the amount of muscle some people are looking for. Maybe, if Pavel ate more protein he'd have more muscle. I don't know

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

Not a hypertrophy type physique per say, but impressive none the less.

I find this comes up again and again when people use the word 'hypertrophy' or ask if a certain exercise, implement, modality etc. can 'build muscle'.

Virtually nobody who visits the SF forum is looking to become the next Phil Heath or Kai Greene and yet the term hypertrophy seems to have become synonymous with what I believe most would consider 'excessive' muscle growth.

For virtually all of us, kettlebell training (subject to appropriate loading, volume, frequency etc.) will build muscle; you will be stronger and you will look stronger.

It bothers me that we have to repeatedly qualify this by saying "You won't look like a pro bodybuilder though," when virtually nobody actually wants to look like that and I worry that it puts off those who stand to benefit the most (i.e. mostly untrained individuals) when people tell them it's 'not really great for building muscle' when, in fact, it absolutely is (especially when compared to some 4 day a week, 2 hours per session, body part split bodybuilding routine that's geared around elite BBers and a 'no pain, no gain' mentality).

 

[Nate]

Your body will grow from volume & stress thats higher than its current norm, as long as nutrition is set to support growth (caloric surplus & adequate protien). Nutrition cannot be ignored...

S&S with a 16kg may be higher than their minimum effective volume & they'll get a little muscle. Then you'll adapt to that and need greater stimulus. 24kg.... then 32.... etc. But muscle grows best through full range of motion so you add presses and squats.... then pressing the 32 and squatting double 32s becomes light and you'd have to go to high reps for adequate stimulus... so you grab a barbell and start a 5x5 program... eventually you're Tom Platz squatting 500 for 23 reps and buying pants that fit is impossible (ok, this is rare) .

If you're past your minimum effective volume (yet not overtraining) and your nutrition matches your goal, you should grow. Find where you are right now with these variables and plan accordingly.

 

[Hung]

It bothers me that we have to repeatedly qualify this by saying "You won't look like a pro bodybuilder though," when virtually nobody actually wants to look like that and I worry that it puts off those who stand to benefit the most

But still, even when people want to look like the guy on Strongfirst main page or have a similar physique of 1m60/75 kg powerlifters they still need to work very hard. And I think we start to pamper them that small amount of work can solve everything. That's what bother me.

 

[Hung]

I think it was this one:
Bodybuilding- vs. Powerlifting-Type Training: Which Builds More Strength and Muscle?

I've read about it in Schoenfields book: Science and Development of Muscle Hypertrophy

That's a good article, thank you.

In that article

realize that only three major muscle groups were worked in the study: the pecs (upper body pushing); the back (upper body pulling) and the thighs.

The HT protocol was a split routine where each muscle was worked once per week with 3 exercises per session, performing 3 sets of 10 reps and resting for 90 seconds. The ST protocol was a total body routine where each muscle was worked 3 times per week with 1 exercise per session, performing 7 sets of 3 reps. The volume load (sets x reps x load) was equated so each group essentially lifted about the same amount of total weight per week. Training was carried out over 8 weeks. All sets were performed to the point of momentary concentric muscular failure.

First, it is important to point out that total training time in the ST group was 70 minutes while that of the HT group was 17 minutes. So from a time-efficiency standpoint, the bodybuilding-type training produced similar hypertrophy (as well as nearly similar strength increases) in about a quarter of the time as the powerlifting routine

17 minutes...I don't know any bodybuilder train in 17 minutes...

 

[Hung]

Yes, but typically the"more" (if you're referring to other lifts besides the contested three) is in support of improved results at a powerlifting contest, not in support of improved results at a bodybuilding contest. There's hypertrophy in support of a goal and then there's hypertrophy for the sake of appearance.

-S-

getting muscle mass has many uses beside of "showing" or "powerlifting". And according to the experience guy (Paul, who is both plw and bodybuilder) bodybuilding training can give muscle mass more effectively. I do think we can use knowledge from bodybuilding world. If you don't care about appearance or posing or whatever then fine.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

One problem I find is that there are little to no progress posts that also involve photos of the trainee. Even on this thread, and others, that are specifically about hypertrophy there isn’t any photos of anyone. Same in all kettlebell communities I see, I’ve seen the same few photos of some people who’ve trained hard for 5+ years or went from good physique to slightly better physique. Never of someone going from no muscles to muscular in <2 years of training (happy to be proved wrong here!)

However if I wanted to see a physique of someone who only uses dumbbells, barbells, body weight etc going from skinny to muscular in under 2 years (even when strength is the main goal) then they’re not too difficult to find.

Maybe it’s just less popular to train for looks with KBs and therefore less trainees to post photos. However you’d assume there’d be at least a few people who have done this.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

 

[Mark Limbaga]

12 weeks of RMF.. no significant changes to diet except bumping up protein by roughly 20-25 grams total per day

 

[Pete L]

One problem I find is that there are little to no progress posts that also involve photos of the trainee. Even on this thread, and others, that are specifically about hypertrophy there isn’t any photos of anyone. Same in all kettlebell communities I see, I’ve seen the same few photos of some people who’ve trained hard for 5+ yearstraining (happy to be proved wrong here!)...

Perhaps "AestheticsFirst" was in the running when formulating a brand and name for StrongFirst. Perhaps not ?
Numbers speak more quantitively than arbitrary physical proportions.
Perhaps S&S was oversimplified with the Simple target of 32 kg for men. The Kettlebells StrongFirst BJJ course now specifies 40% to 50% BW targets for swings and TGU.
This is more aligned to the DL, SQ and BP targets of 2x, 1.5x and 1x sometimes given.
I want to avoid excessive hypertrophy. That's a personal aspiration; be strong for my size and gain the benefits in my martial art.
I've got a picture of me holding a 24 kg bell from a few years ago if you want to see that. ?

 

[Eyetic]

One problem I find is that there are little to no progress posts that also involve photos of the trainee. Even on this thread, and others, that are specifically about hypertrophy there isn’t any photos of anyone. Same in all kettlebell communities I see, I’ve seen the same few photos of some people who’ve trained hard for 5+ years or went from good physique to slightly better physique. Never of someone going from no muscles to muscular in <2 years of training (happy to be proved wrong here!)

However if I wanted to see a physique of someone who only uses dumbbells, barbells, body weight etc going from skinny to muscular in under 2 years (even when strength is the main goal) then they’re not too difficult to find.

Maybe it’s just less popular to train for looks with KBs and therefore less trainees to post photos. However you’d assume there’d be at least a few people who have done this.

I believe there's also an age component behind that and I feel like the majority of population in this forum is either mature for their age or just over 40, and i'm not saying that aesthetics are not important but they tend to loose trend as you age

Anyway I got my pic on my profile and in my log, I like look bigger, leaner, stronger (and no I'm not a Instagram, tictoc freak), I followed the Giant series for 6 months now and I feel like I got bigger over this period of time.

Under my opinion Diet is like 70-80% of the process and this is the part where most people fail.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I think you have to define the goals. If hypertrophy is > 50% then probably kettlebell is NOT the ideal implement unless you have a very long timeframe to work with and a lot of bells. The use of term "minimalist" is liable to translate to "limited effectiveness". That is the tricky part of this topic, specifically.

ANY strength building approach or existing program can be tweaked to improve hypertrophic response with nothing more than a more ambitious meal plan and some (progressive) finish work that induces a strong metabolic response - close to failure or use of incomplete recovery. I am 100% convinced of these two factors and their role - can be used with heavy load, light load, medium load - the rest of it all depends on the tools you have, mental proclivity toward given loading ranges and ancillary goals.

Caveat: the response will be largely limited to the primary moving muscles, so exercise selection is always a factor, and that can be another limiting factor w/ kettlebell.

So without too much more general talk re types of hypertrophy and strength (all of it VERY specific to the means) the question is really three part:
- kettlebell
- minimalist
- hypertrophy

Prior to/around about the time I began transitioning to sandbags I got very good results using KB for hypertrophy, but using them more like dumbbells. I had all but stopped OHP, TGU, Bent Press etc and was doing bench press using sandbags for a bench, split squats, bent rows with three kettlebells hanging from a towel, etc.

Even then I used a fairly minimalst selection of 4 primary push, pull, hinge, squat and 4 accessory shoulder push, shoulder pull, hamstring, quad - I train similar to the current day no matter what tools I'm using. I am unaware of a current as-written kettlebell program that directly addresses OPs reasonably straightforward question without modification.

The lead in sets can be metabolic moderate load, or heavy intervals with less metabolic stress. Adding metabolic stress to the end of a heavy load approach is going to require some periodizing as it really asks a lot from every aspect CNS to muscle growth, where moderate load is somewhat more readily recovered from.

I'm starting to ramble...

 

[Eyetic]

I'm starting to ramble...

You are not, pearls of wisdom comes out from your "rambling"

 

[Stefan Olsson]

Under my opinion Diet is like 70-80% of the process and this is the part where most people fail.

You hit me right in the feels

 

[Dayz]

One problem I find is that there are little to no progress posts that also involve photos of the trainee. Even on this thread, and others, that are specifically about hypertrophy there isn’t any photos of anyone. Same in all kettlebell communities I see, I’ve seen the same few photos of some people who’ve trained hard for 5+ years or went from good physique to slightly better physique. Never of someone going from no muscles to muscular in <2 years of training (happy to be proved wrong here!)

However if I wanted to see a physique of someone who only uses dumbbells, barbells, body weight etc going from skinny to muscular in under 2 years (even when strength is the main goal) then they’re not too difficult to find.

Maybe it’s just less popular to train for looks with KBs and therefore less trainees to post photos. However you’d assume there’d be at least a few people who have done this.

People have already responded above. I'll just add: if you want to see more transformation pics, check the kettlebell subreddit. That forum seems to have a different crowd. A lot more picture and video sharing of transformations, etc. Some of which are astounding.

 

[Stefan Olsson]

People have already responded above. I'll just add: if you want to see more transformation pics, check the kettlebell subreddit. That forum seems to have a different crowd. A lot more picture and video sharing of transformations, etc. Some of which are astounding.

I concur. A great sub reddit!

 

[Deleted member 316]

So it's pretty much agreed that ROP and the Giant are the two go to single bell muscle builders? I might have to look into this Giant thing.

 

[Cearball]

There has been research done with comparing Bodybuilidng vs Powerlifting. When they both did the same VOLUME and exercises, but switched the sets/reps. The outcome was exactly the same.

So let's say bodybuilders did 5 sets of 10 reps with appropiate weight (50 reps) and short rest and Powerlifters did 10 sets of 5, and long rest, the amount of hypertrophy was exactly the same.

Only difference, bodybuilders took about 15 minutes to complete the workout, and powerlifters over 2 hours. A small side note, almost all of the powerlifters at the end of the line where overtrained.

On Topic:
The prometheus protocol.

Prometheus gets my vote

Though I would do this version

World’s Strongest Napkin: How to Add 2lbs of Muscle a Week with Kettlebells - Breaking Muscle

It was noisy weather in Panera Bread when I sat with a grungy college fellow to talk on how he might add some brawns to his barren frame. He was of the gangly sorts, gangly like a daddy-long-legs. I had coffee. I drink mine mostly black, but occasionally I may dot it with cinnamon. My...

breakingmuscle.com

 

[Boris Bachmann]

Hi,
I wanted to see some suggestions from other's experience of which kettlebell minimalist program has the best hypertrophy results. I know S&S has some hypertrophy benefits from the swings (not the TGU), QnD could have some also, etc, but what is from your experience the best one?
Thanks

I haven't read all the replies, but some background information would be helpful. Kettlebell ballistics aren't generally the best for hypertrophy. Doesn't mean it's impossible, just that if you are starting out w. muscle to begin with, you might not see as much growth as you'd like, especially if you are a following a 'minimalist' approach.

 

[silveraw]

There has been research done with comparing Bodybuilidng vs Powerlifting. When they both did the same VOLUME and exercises, but switched the sets/reps. The outcome was exactly the same

If this is the study I’m thinking of, it is worth noting that the group that did 10/3 felt like they were under training and the group that did 3/7 reported feeling like death.