Minimum time for IF benefits

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
There is some data showing increased inflammation with skipped breakfast but not with skipped dinner. This needs to be looked at some more and nobody knows yet how significant this is.
I have read ayurvedic (sp?) source that suggest a big midday meal followed by a short nap.

IMHO, the Warrior Diet hits this on the nose - don't be crazy, don't watch a clock, learn to go by feel, learn to eat a little without having a "meal" at some times. All science aside, this idea of "under-eating" has worked for me for close to 20 years now and my body composition is good according to most people.

-S-
 

HUNTER1313

More than 500 posts
I've, been toying with the idea of of 16/8. It seems like the best plan for both muscle and fat loss. I have been doing omad, but just not feeling it lately. I've been feeling a little more rundown. What I'm not looking forward to is packing food again. I am dreading it. With omad I just toss some water and coffee in my bag and I'm gone. But if the switch to 16/8 will benefit me more than so be it.
Has anyone else switched from one form of if to another and which did you feel the best with or gave you the best results?
 

Molson

Triple-Digit Post Count
This topic is really interesting and had been touched on this forum numerous times.

I would just add that there should be different layers to that, there is burning fat and there are more happening under the (fat) surface in our bodies during fast.

Being rather skinny I have no interest in cutting fat but I am interested in longevity effects. Giving my organs and system a break from feeding. It’s also useful mentally.

At the same time it should be noted that if your goal is to lose weight, IF must result with overall calorie deficit. I did 8/16 or two days/week 24h fasts and I always eat in calorie surplus - not lost weight overall.
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I've, been toying with the idea of of 16/8. It seems like the best plan for both muscle and fat loss.

Intermittent Fasting

Research shows that fasting for up to 72 hours (3 days) primarily burns body fat while preserving muscle mass. So, for fat burning infrequent longer fasts may be more effective.

Below is a break down of the various Intermittent Fasting Protocols and feed back on each with my time "Book Marked Reference Point".

Intermittent Fasting: Science or Fiction
Dr. John Berardi, CSCS (PhD Nutrition)
NSCA Conference Lecture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGzPeG9XIp4

This is a excellent presentation by Berardi.

Below are my Cliff Notes from Berardi's lecture based on his research and personal experience.

Initially, Berardi was skeptical, as I an many were. However, Berardi is now a proponent of it.

Section 11 Below, "The Friendliest"

Based on Berardi's personal experience, his personal favorites are...

1) 24 Hour Intermittent Fast (Dr Mike T. Nelson and Brad Pilon are advocate of this).

Pilon obtained a Master based on his research on Intermittent Fasting. As per Pilon, it is ironical that my Master in Nutrition is based on not eating.

2) The 16/8 Intermittent Fast is what Berardi found "The Friendliest".

With that said, there are a variety of Intermittent Fasting Protocols. The best one is the one that you like and can live with.

Research

Berardi's podcast start off providing some interesting research on the military's use of Intermittent Fasting for Jet Lag travel. Evidently, it dampens that effect.

1) Anti Jet-Lag Diet (2:45 minutes)
Dr Charles Ehret
Argonne National Laboartory

2) Military Medicine, 2002 (4:05 minutes)
US to Korea 7.5x less Jet-Lag
Korea to USA 16.5 less Jet-Lag

3) Anti-Jet Lag Fast (4:55 minutes)
Dr Clifford Saper
Beth Israel Medical Center

False Myths (8:30 minutes)

4) *Eating small meals throughout the day speeds up your metabolism. Wrong!

5) *It lowers stress hormones. Wrong!

4) *Reference: ISSN (International Society Of Sports Nutrition)

This research article determined that eating smaller, frequent meals every three hours does little to increase you metabolism.

In fact, it actually minimizes the fat burning process. Consuming food frequently maintains insulin production. Insulin shuts down the fat burning hormones; Nor-Epinephrine, Epinephrine, Growth Hormone, Glucagon, and Cortisol.

A Word About Cortisol

An acute increase in Cortisol during Intermittent Fasting and Exercise burns body fat.

Chronic elevation of Cortisol, increases body fat, catabolizes muscle mass and contributes to a multitude of health issues.

Insulin is "Globally Anabolic". It indiscriminately increases muscle mass as well as increasing body fat.

5) Metabolic Rate Increase during fasting (20:40 minutes)

Research shows fasting increase metabolism up to 72 hours. After 72 hours metabolic rate decreases (General Adaptation Syndrome).

Not in lecture, data from another source.

Research Literature (26:15 minutes)

6) Alternate Day
Fast 36 hours, feed in a 12 hour window. Repeat.

7) Eat-Stop-Eat
Full Day Fast X 1-2 Days Per Week.

8) The Warrior Diet
20 hour fast everyday with a 4 hour feed. Steve like this.

9) Lean Gains
16 hour fast with 8 hour feed everyday.

10) Berardi's Experiement with Various Fasting Methods (Chart) (32:30 minutes)

a) Month 1-2: One Day 24 Hour Fast Per Week X 2 Months. Dropped from 190 to 178 lbs. Good results

b) Month 3: Two Day 24 Hour Fast Per Week X 1 Month. Dropped from to 171 first week but didn't feel good.

c) Month 4: 16/8 Daily Fast. Weight increased to 175 felt good. Good Results.

d) Month 5: 16/8 Daily Fast with One 24 Hour Fast. Okay Results.

e) Month 6: 16/8 Daily Fast with Two 20/4 Fast. Nightmare.

11) "Friendliest Fast For Berardi (33:50 minutes)
a) 24 Hour Fast
b) 16/8 Daily Fast...feel like it is the most "Physique Friendly".

12) Before & After Pictures (37:00 minutes)

13) Muscle Gain (38:00 minutes)
Manipulating Fasting and Eating to increase Muscle Mass/Body Weight with the...

14) "Bigger/Smaller/Bigger Project" Chart (39:39 minutes)

This essentially follows the same protocol of "Protein Cycling" that you mentioned in another post.

15) Pictures of Results (40:08)
a) Before 170 lbs
b) After 190 lbs
.

What's In A Name?

Dr Ryan Lowery has an interesting point that I agree with. Lowery believe the term "Intermittent Fasting" has a negative connotation with most.

Lowery prefers the term, "Intermittent Eating". However, the term "Intermittent Fasting" is now permanently tatooed into the system and here to stay.
 
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kennycro@@aol.com

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
...don't be crazy, ,
Brad Pilon

Pilon, an adovocate of the 24 hour Intermittent Fast, stated what Steve has.

As per Pilon, an Intermittent Fast needs to be at least 12 hours. If you reach that, you have accomplished your objective. Anything after 12 hours is a plus.

So, if you are really hungry after 12 hours, eat something. Don't make yourself and other crazy. "Don't watch a clock, learn to go by feel."

Mike T. Nelson

Nelson is another advocate of the 24 hour Intermittent Fast. Nelson provides similar advice. It primarily applies for individual who are Glucose Dependent.

Start off by not eating after dinner, let's say 6 pm. Upon waking, prolong breakfast until you feel the need to eat.

Let's say that means you feel the need to eat something around 6 am when you wake. Then have something to eat.

Gradually Extend The Time

Over a time period that you feel comfortable with, gradually extend your fasting time.

Let's say after a few days of a 12 hour fast (6 am - 6 pm), don't have anything to eat until 7 am.

Then after a while, extend the fast to 8 am, etc.
 
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Timmer C

Double-Digit Post Count
@Ryan T

Peter Attia had issued this on his newsletter.
...
Whether the results are reproducible and what happens when people engage in these regimens long-term hasn’t been determined. Do people improve their metabolic flexibility during long-term TRF, IF, and ADF? Do the levels, and utilization of, ketones increase over time? Does one regimen work better than the others in this regard? Does a ketogenic diet mimic the effects of TR (or does TR mimic the effects of a ketogenic diet)? If we have any chance of sorting this out, we need to start carrying out more (and longer) studies that look at different forms of restriction and measure the thing that presumably matters, in this case, ketones.
Peter sounds like he wants to overcome a flaw that I’ve seen in summaries of some research studies I’ve read: not differentiating between “eating a ketogenic diet” and actually being in ketosis. The former can be a means to the latter but is not synonymous with the latter. Although I combine keto and IF on a regular basis, I know that keto is not measured directly by how much fat I eat, but is more a matter of how much my body prefers to use stored body fat and ketones for energy rather than relying on eating for immediate energy needs. (In the field of athletic performance research, the studies trying to compare low carb eating vs high carb eating very often miss what Peter is trying to get at: ketones.)
 
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