Kettlebell Mixing 40kg kb Press program

[Rúben Sousa]

Hi, guys. Iam currently working on pressing the 40kg. I can do 48kg Turkish Get up, swings and snatch the 40kg, but I the press is much harder...
These exercises had carry over to almost everything, even pull ups, I can strict pullup the the 48kg as well. But God.. The press doesn't lock out. So I need to follow a specific program for that, I think.

Since that I searched for programs to jump from a 32 to 40kg, and I found some very interesting stuff from Zsolt Derzi.

My question is:
Can I mix a press program with ladder pull ups in the same day?
And do low-medium volume snatches and 5x5 pistol squats in the other days? Considering that I have to pratice other drills, since iam a fighter.

The program goes like this (image attached)

Thank you much. Kind regards, from Portugal.

 

[Rúben Sousa]

Kettlebell training is give me unreal hand strength, combined with other traditional martial art drills for conditioning them. It is unbelievable. I don't have words to thank Pavel for this.

 

[Daniel Vintila]

If you are close to lockout but not there yet, could you post a video of you attempting a 40kg press?
There are a few things you can do, if you're not already doing them in order to lockout:
-shift your hip underneath the bell before pressing.
-look at the bell as soon as you start pressing.
This program looks like a light-medium-heavy approach with an interesting rep scheme. On week 6 and 7 you're doing a lot of volume @32 before hitting the 36. Also assuming that your max is 40 ( which technically is not) you have a bit too many reps @36 which would be 90% in week7.
As for combining it with pull ups, now it depends on how many reps you're also doing. Your back might handle all that volume, although is very likely that your lats will feel it and might get too tired soon.
You also have at least 1 fire drill a week I assume. I would go for some swings rather than snatches, maybe a medium volume @somehwere around 40kg. (your lats might feel this as well).
You could try and see how it goes, that's sometimes the best way to try somthing. My opinion is that your shoulders and lats might feel it a bit too much.

 

[barrak]

If you are close to lockout but not there yet, could you post a video of you attempting a 40kg press?
There are a few things you can do, if you're not already doing them in order to lockout:
-shift your hip underneath the bell before pressing.
-look at the bell as soon as you start pressing.

Good point. I'll add that my lockout always softens, regardless of weight or implement, if the handle is gripped parallel to the floor.

 

[Rúben Sousa]

If you are close to lockout but not there yet, could you post a video of you attempting a 40kg press?
There are a few things you can do, if you're not already doing them in order to lockout:
-shift your hip underneath the bell before pressing.
-look at the bell as soon as you start pressing.
This program looks like a light-medium-heavy approach with an interesting rep scheme. On week 6 and 7 you're doing a lot of volume @32 before hitting the 36. Also assuming that your ma is 40 ( which technically is not) you have a bit too many reps @36 which would be 90% in week7.
As for combining it with pull ups, now it depends on how many reps you're also doing. Your back might handle all that volume, although is very likely that your lats will feel it and might get too tired soon.
You also have at least 1 fire drill a week I assume. I would go for some swings rather than snatches, maybe a medium volume @somehwere around 40kg. (your lats might feel this as well).
You could try and see how it goes, that's sometimes the best way to try somthing. My opinion is that your shoulders and lats might feel it a bit too much.

I can only lift the 40kg a little bit. With some cheating maybe I could get a little bit more. But cheating is not an option ehehehehe.

I was thinking about doing rite of passage the same time I do this program with pullups.
And in the off days adding snatches and pistols. Not going crazy with snatches for sure. Maybe some light medium volume with the 32 and then going a little harder on pistols. But I don't know if this could lead to overtrainning.

I can press de 32kg 3 reps.

 

[Rúben Sousa]

I can only lift the 40kg a little bit. With some cheating maybe I could get a little bit more. But cheating is not an option ehehehehe.

I was thinking about doing rite of passage the same time I do this program with pullups.
And in the off days adding snatches and pistols. Not going crazy with snatches for sure. Maybe some light medium volume with the 32 and then going a little harder on pistols. But I don't know if this could lead to overtrainning.

I can press de 32kg 3 reps.

Rite of passage ladder scheme on pullups, was what I meant to say

 

[Daniel Vintila]

I can only lift the 40kg a little bit. With some cheating maybe I could get a little bit more. But cheating is not an option ehehehehe.

I was thinking about doing rite of passage the same time I do this program with pullups.
And in the off days adding snatches and pistols. Not going crazy with snatches for sure. Maybe some light medium volume with the 32 and then going a little harder on pistols. But I don't know if this could lead to overtrainning.

I can press de 32kg 3 reps.

Try looking for the program by @Fabio Zonin "Simple strength for difficult times". You will have a pull, a push and a squat.
Which is ideal for you cause you want to do presses, you like pull ups and pistol squats. You can choose those 3 exercises for your training and on the off days do snatches if you please. Give it a look and let me know . I've had great success with it.
This is part 2. which is slightly more complex. There is also a part 1 in the articles.

Simple Strength for Difficult Times Part Two: Get Even Stronger in Quarantine | StrongFirst

Use minimal gear and some creativity to get stronger during quarantine.

www.strongfirst.com

 

[barrak]

Try looking for the program by @Fabio Zonin "Simple strength for difficult times". You will have a pull, a push and a squat.
Which is ideal for you cause you want to do presses, you like pull ups and pistol squats. You can choose those 3 exercises for your training and on the off days do snatches if you please. Give it a look and let me know . I've had great success with it.
This is part 2. which is slightly more complex. There is also a part 1 in the articles.

Simple Strength for Difficult Times Part Two: Get Even Stronger in Quarantine | StrongFirst

Use minimal gear and some creativity to get stronger during quarantine.

www.strongfirst.com

I really like this format, for a bit of variety. It's a grinds only version of Pavel's ETK+ program which I started a week ago.

 

[John DeStefano]

I remember that Zsolt Derzi plan. I tried using it, probably too early in my ramp up to SFGII, and had to stop somewhere mid-way through because I had trouble pressing the 32 for so many sets.
I think the pistols would be ok. As for pull-ups, it just depends. With the right approach and recovery, sure it could work. I tend to be conservative, so when the goal is specific, I steer away from anything that might interfere. If the goal is to press the 40, then make sure to adjust your pull-ups so that they don't interfere with pressing. I would do them after presses, and if a ladder feels hard that day, pull back. If it feels good, go for it. Snatches might be ok on alternate days too, but same thing as with the pull-ups, regulate based on how they feel that day and remember your goal. You might be ok with all this. Seems like you could have a decent work capacity, but we don't know for sure.
I know this answer isn't super sexy or specific.
Also look up Craig Marker's prep plan. The press plan he includes is what got me my 40kg press.

 

[Dries S]

Hi @Rúben Sousa ,
If you can clean and press the 32 for 3 reps, I would follow the Soju and Tuba plan to get 5-8 reps/arm.
Then I'd follow the ROP. If you finish that one, you will press the 40 for sure.
Those are two solid programs that have already proven themselves over and over again. They also allow for the pull ups, (light) snatching/swings, and pistols on variety days.
This was exactly what I did to get my next size bell!

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Rúben Sousa
I am far from the press number above, but some time ago, I pressed slightly more than 1/2 bdw. All things being equal, I did:
- 10 x 3r @20kg (8 weeks)
- S&T @24kg
- Daily Dose @28kg
-> Then I tested and got 32 for 1r, each side. Back then, I weighted "only" 60kg.

I got it using a fairly low volume, but with "experience", I would second @Dries S : S&T followed by RoP would probably be better, assuming recovery is ok if you practice martial arts.

You have some nice pictures on your IG by the way ! You look extremely lean but super strong. Pressing 40 and even heavier will give you an incredible strength to weight ratio !

Soju & Tuba: Upgrade Your Strength with the Soju and Tuba Press Program | StrongFirst
Daily Dose Press (post #23): one arm press

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Rúben Sousa]

Hello,

@Rúben Sousa
I am far from the press number above, but some time ago, I pressed slightly more than 1/2 bdw. All things being equal, I did:
- 10 x 3r @20kg (8 weeks)
- S&T @24kg
- Daily Dose @28kg
-> Then I tested and got 32 for 1r, each side. Back then, I weighted "only" 60kg.

I got it using a fairly low volume, but with "experience", I would second @Dries S : S&T followed by RoP would probably be better, assuming recovery is ok if you practice martial arts.

You have some nice pictures on your IG by the way ! You look extremely lean but super strong. Pressing 40 and even heavier will give you an incredible strength to weight ratio !

Soju & Tuba: Upgrade Your Strength with the Soju and Tuba Press Program | StrongFirst
Daily Dose Press (post #23): one arm press

Kind regards,

Pet'

Thank you so much for the response and the kind words. Means a ton to me!!
I got in to kettlebells only past year, and I never done strength training before. Only the martial arts training with bodyweight. I guess I should started sooner. But Iam still 25 year old and I weight 73kg (161 pounds), still got "time" to do something awesome, ehehehe.
So what do you think that I should replace the program of Zsolt Derzi to the soju & Tuba?

 

[Rúben Sousa]

Hi @Rúben Sousa ,
If you can clean and press the 32 for 3 reps, I would follow the Soju and Tuba plan to get 5-8 reps/arm.
Then I'd follow the ROP. If you finish that one, you will press the 40 for sure.
Those are two solid programs that have already proven themselves over and over again. They also allow for the pull ups, (light) snatching/swings, and pistols on variety days.
This was exactly what I did to get my next size bell!

So, what do you think that would leave to press the 40 sooner the Zsolt Derzi or the soju & tuba?
If the problem is volume and fatigue, I can take it easy in other drills, no problem, I have time ?.

Greetings from Portugal!

 

[Rúben Sousa]

I remember that Zsolt Derzi plan. I tried using it, probably too early in my ramp up to SFGII, and had to stop somewhere mid-way through because I had trouble pressing the 32 for so many sets.
I think the pistols would be ok. As for pull-ups, it just depends. With the right approach and recovery, sure it could work. I tend to be conservative, so when the goal is specific, I steer away from anything that might interfere. If the goal is to press the 40, then make sure to adjust your pull-ups so that they don't interfere with pressing. I would do them after presses, and if a ladder feels hard that day, pull back. If it feels good, go for it. Snatches might be ok on alternate days too, but same thing as with the pull-ups, regulate based on how they feel that day and remember your goal. You might be ok with all this. Seems like you could have a decent work capacity, but we don't know for sure.
I know this answer isn't super sexy or specific.
Also look up Craig Marker's prep plan. The press plan he includes is what got me my 40kg press.

Super helpful answer. I feel the same. It is very hard to predict such levels of fatigue.

Kind regards

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Rúben Sousa
S&T is perfect if recovery is an issue (for instance if the actual MA practice is very demanding or almost daily). Zsolt's program has more volume. So if C19 prevents you from your "normal" practice, then you can keep it.

There is a saying "to press a lot, you have to press a lot". This is why programs such as Zsolt's are great. RoP is also a very good choice, but the last week are more demanding. RoP is done with a "moderate" weight by SF standards, and rely on volume. S&T and Zsolt's are more based on intensity as the require to go heavy sometimes.

RoP has drawbacks:
- Physically demanding, especially by the end
- Sessions can be long
- It can build good shoulder health and strength, but it can also lead to injury (due to volume)

But there are great pros:
- One can get insanely strong with a moderately heavy bell
- Good for body composition / recomposition (but it seems you do not really need it !)
- If you do dead start C&P all the way long (from session 1 to the last), and go smoothly from rep to rep during the session, you will fall into the "strength aerobics", which will give you great conditioning.

An alternative to RoP, which has almost the same volume, is "Red Zone". Basically, 5x5 presses, then 100 swings, then 5x5 presses, 3x a week. This is 150 presses a week, whereas RoP is 155. However, sessions are even because there is no L/M/H.

On non RZ days, you can do what you want (MA, easy recovery run, pistol and pull up practice, etc...)

I ran both RoP and RZ. The latter is way easier on recovery: The Red Zone (Pavel, T. Program)

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Great insights here

The S and T program was originally designed to prepare you for the rite of passage (or with more up to date programs, the giant 3.0)

I definitely would say buffer your 28kg press and turn it into a 10-12 rm then revisit the 32kg

 

[Dayz]

Great insights here

The S and T program was originally designed to prepare you for the rite of passage (or with more up to date programs, the giant 3.0)

I definitely would say buffer your 28kg press and turn it into a 10-12 rm then revisit the 32kg

When you say "buffer" the press, what does that mean?

What do you think is the best way of turning a bell into a 10-12RM?

 

[Phil S]

Great insights here

The S and T program was originally designed to prepare you for the rite of passage (or with more up to date programs, the giant 3.0)

I definitely would say buffer your 28kg press and turn it into a 10-12 rm then revisit the 32kg

You didn't ask - but I'm running S&T as an addon now that I've ticked timeless Simple and dropped freq to 3ish times per week (with 1 session being a24kg overspeed 2H day).

However the 24kg is like a 4RM on L and 5 on the R - so I'm undershooting the intended intensity. 32kg however is a 0 RM. With this long lead-up and context - what's your fav NOT RoP press program to follow on S&T? I won't have time for RoP - but presses need to be a priority as my pull/push ratios are out of whack. I'll have a 28kg by the end of this month (and a 40). Where do i flow out of S&T? Conditioning isn't really a goal - just presses (all of them - bent, side, BUP and military)

 

[Mark Limbaga]

You didn't ask - but I'm running S&T as an addon now that I've ticked timeless Simple and dropped freq to 3ish times per week (with 1 session being a24kg overspeed 2H day).

However the 24kg is like a 4RM on L and 5 on the R - so I'm undershooting the intended intensity. 32kg however is a 0 RM. With this long lead-up and context - what's your fav NOT RoP press program to follow on S&T? I won't have time for RoP - but presses need to be a priority as my pull/push ratios are out of whack. I'll have a 28kg by the end of this month (and a 40). Where do i flow out of S&T? Conditioning isn't really a goal - just presses (all of them - bent, side, BUP and military)

I'd say if you hit a 6trm go with giant 3.0 since it only takes 20-30 mins

 

[James Sullivan]

It's hard to tell if the others here are speaking from experience or from something else...

The pressing plan you have posted looks like Plan Strong. I ran a similar PS plan for pressing along with a simultaneous PS plan for pull-ups and barbell back squats before I was experienced enough and my results were disappointing. PS should be deployed when adaptation has stalled. Unless you can very confidently call yourself an intermediate kettlebell lifter (i.e. 40kg is more than you 1/2 bw press and you have been pressing for several years) I would not recommend that plan. Also to develop a PS program requires a very honest evaluation of your 1RM and a fairly accurate assessment of the number of lifts you made over the prior month in addition to knowing roughly how your rep Max numbers track with the percentage of your 1RM weight. Not sure if this plan was customized specifically for you...

I earned my 40 kg 1/2 BW press on both sides using only RoP. It took me about two years of intermittent RoP cycles. In between cycles I worked up to my SFB cert with a focus on OAOL push-ups, pistols, HLR's, hollow position, and separately on SE snatch protocols and deadlifts. I personally was not always able to train pull-ups with RoP. If fatigue was accumulating between sessions or tendon issues arose pull-up were the first to be eliminated. I trained pistols GTG style on two variety days in my last RoP cycle with minimal progress realized on the pistols, but I was also 40 years old at the time so maybe different for you.

I would recommend RoP with the prescribed pull-ups. Follow the directions in the the book and do the snatches on the same day as the presses and pull-ups. This is a time-tested plan. You can ease into Pistols on variety days, say starting with 3 sets of 5 and work up if you are able to recover between sessions. It is much easier to slowly add volume than to have to recover from overtraining.