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Bodyweight Mobility Routine suggestions

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@wespom9 actually the hard roll is more a test than something to be done daily.

About mobility. I also recommend the OS stuff. If I'm short on time I can be done three minutes. The movements have a playful element and bring me joy. I got easily bored by normal mobility practices and didn't feel much of an effect.

As I came to understand it during my level II (taken with Diane Vives for what its worth, who was fantastic) the hard roll is a natural progression to segmental rolling, which would be the regression as @jca17 mentioned below. Rolling in general is a corrective option for the Rotary Stability section of the screen (remember the FMS is not a "test" nor an "assessment" - it is a screen)

I do hard rolls for reps in my OS practice. Is there a reason not to do them daily, Marlon? Wespom has his level II FMS with experience in the field, so I'm curious about why that's an issue that he would need correction on. The way I understand progressions is that when a higher difficulty move becomes easy, you don't really need to go back down to the regressions as often, and the hard roll is kind of the king of rolling, right? I've found that its one of the most beneficial moves for the initial part of the TGU. I still do segmental rolling every once in a while, but hard rolls are my bread and butter (unless we're talking about real bread, in which case I prefer my roll a little softer).

Again, rolling in general is a corrective to the RS and I would consider prescribing to anyone with a 1 on that level of the screen. Now, proper FMS protocol would require that SM and ASLR (generally described as the "mobility" sections of the screen) are both 2's BEFORE rolling - implying that the rolls may not bring the desired the effect without first increasing the scores of those mobility. You would be right in the fact if its not an issue, you don't need a corrective. That being said, if you value it and want to maintain/improve, could you do them? Absolutely. Not sure how many of you follow Mike Boyle, but he is huge on doing your A1 and A2 exercise and pairing it with a mobility or corrective that is what he describes as "part of your active recovery" (I am paraphrasing so I apologize if I put words in his mouth).

Why do I do it everyday? I think it is partly both restorative and preventative. Does it make me feel better? Definitely yes. Do I think its helping keep me mobile and stable so I can strength train the way I would like? I would say yes.

I love that Dan John quote too, I've used it in my own work with clients - "If something is important, do it every day" Strength is only achievable with ideal body mechanics. If I didn't do it for a day or two, would I notice? Probably not. But if you ignore it for too long - you may notice all of a sudden you are worse than you thought. I strength train most days, do mobility most days, and am happy with how its going.


That's a good answer. There is a difference between preventative and restorative. We brush our teeth everyday to prevent cavities. If that doesn't work and we get a cavity, brushing won't fix it at that point.

OS is marketed as restorative, not preventative - restoring lost movement, restoring a pain free status, etc.

Any movement that has to be prepped every day raises a question - are we just "prepping" or warming up our compensations? Because if we fix the compensations they go away. There is a difference between fixing a hole in drywall, and hanging a picture in front of the hole.

You are correct that we "fix" compensations, however in practice I'm not always sure it is that easy. Especially for the client you see once a week, and is not so great and exercising on their own - I add the necessary correctives in warmup/paired with higher movement patterns that will assist our daily and long term goals. Bottom line, the corrective may fix it that day - but only with continued proper movement will the corrective stay away. This is why we constantly assess.
 
@B.Hetzler you ask very thought-provoking questions as I am still almost a half an hour later thinking about your comments. "Movement prep" is one of those terms I see a lot in the industry that doesn't seem to have a concrete definition. Is it unloaded movement before loaded? Is it correctives? Is it simple increasing tissue temperature in preparation for exercise? On some level, I think we prep all movements every day - do many of us not do warmup sets before our daily set/rep scheme? Taking S&S as an example, are halos, goblet squats and bridges not "movement prep" or mobility work as well?

I won't say its a final thought but here is one more - the field of developmental kinesiology (which although it is never specifically said in the book, I see OS as a derivative; @MikeMoran you are a certified coach, I would love your input) as a whole I find really focuses on movement patterns that are ingrained in us through the way we naturally developed and looks at ways to correct patterns GLOBALLY. Look at basically all the big 5 resets - it follows baby's growth from simple breathing to bipedal locomotion. I see many parallels between this and the DNS approach - finding the correct difficulty based on a persons capabilities, breath in the position, and necessary load and progress when ready. In turn, the FMS correctives, as well as Kelly Starrett's Supple Leopard stuff, is much more localized. I am NOT at all saying that local corrections do not cause global benefits, but the correctives themselves are on a targeted area.

Again, is one better than the other? Who knows. I don't think anyone will ever know. But I do think having more tools in the toolbox will assist you (or clients or whomever) in becoming the person you want to become.
 
Good points. I can't disagree with any of them. But I do have more questions:

  1. If the resets are "continuous proper movement", then why does the issue come back?
  2. If our strength programming is sound, why do movement issues develop?
  3. If we've assessed (FMS) an individual and have to keep doing correctives, what was missed? Was it a poor screen, poor corrective order, or the wrong correctives?
  4. If the big 5 resets (which i don't know what these are) are based on developmental kinesiology/how we naturally move, how does that person that sits on the couch all day/doesn't have the motivation to do stuff even perform the big 5? Babies bring wicked mobility to the table that non-babies, non-gymnasts don't possess.
 
At the very least trying it is always an option. If works, keep doing it. If doesn't, try something else.
 
Good points. I can't disagree with any of them. But I do have more questions:

  1. If the resets are "continuous proper movement", then why does the issue come back?
  2. If our strength programming is sound, why do movement issues develop?
  3. If we've assessed (FMS) an individual and have to keep doing correctives, what was missed? Was it a poor screen, poor corrective order, or the wrong correctives?
  4. If the big 5 resets (which i don't know what these are) are based on developmental kinesiology/how we naturally move, how does that person that sits on the couch all day/doesn't have the motivation to do stuff even perform the big 5? Babies bring wicked mobility to the table that non-babies, non-gymnasts don't possess.

1. I believe that the resets are not proper movements in and of themselves, but are restorative to general body movement as you previously mentioned. Applying the reset (or FMS corrective or whatever would equally work here) "re-activates" ideal movement patterns temporarily, but once you gain this, you must still practice other patterns to ingrain them. Example - I have trouble deadlifting, say i round my low back rather than use the hip joint proper (eg femur rotates in acetabulum) . I apply the "rocking" reset which helps to clean up my hip flexion movement. I must still practice my deadlift over and over with this new "motor memory" to ingrain the correct pattern, otherwise the brain will revert to its assumed "normal" (read: not optimal) pattern of lumber spine flexion rather than from the femur in acetabulum. This could apply to an ASLR corrective in the FMS as well. Just like teaching someone a squat for one session after some coaching cues does not mean an individual will come in tomorrow and be able to replicate the proper movement tomorrow, correctives work in the same way. It takes time for the brain make this new pattern the preferred pattern.

2. Excellent point, but that requires one thing that many individuals unfortunately lack: sound programming

In addition, it may not be from our programming that movement dysfunction develops, but rather what we do outside of our strength practice

3. It could be any of those things, and unfortunately that will come down to the individual doing the screen. Screening protocol and the correct order or algorithm of which screens to attack first is covered extremely indepth in the FMS training. However, it is up to the individual performing the screen to decide which corrective to use. Generally, it is educated estimation but if after 2-3 tries there is no noticeable improvement, best to attack a different way.

this paragraph applies to all your questions I think - From personal experience, younger individuals require less time with correctives, although this stereotype does not apply always (never speak in absolutes - I wish I remember who said that because I love it). If you have had bad movement patterns for a long time, it may take a long time of correctives to change the plasticity of the brain to optimize the newer, more optimal pattern. I seem to remember Gray or Brett Jones saying that once you apply a corrective and change a score, you have about 30 minutes before that person reverts to their old pattern. This is why sometimes correctives can take more than a couple sessions. Example - someone scores 1 on ASLR but is literally at 10 degrees - an awful leg raise. Again, depending on how long they have had this movement pattern, it may take extended time to get the to a respectable range, a 2 or about 45ish degrees

4. The big 5 are:

Diaphragmatic breathing
Neck Nods
Rolling
Rocking
Crawling/cross crawls

where the last one is the only one that will tax a person aerobically. crawling for 2 minutes (head up, eyes on horizon, contralateral arm and leg move in unison, knees track between hands, etc.) is physically exhausting, honestly. Neck nods helps the vestibular system, rolling is a fantastic for "inner core" (diaphragm, pelvic floor, TrA, etc) and is perfectly covered in Movement by Gray Cook. Rocking resets focus on breathing and movement through the shoulders and hips and crawling ties it all in with movement. Cross crawls are basically contralateral arm and leg movements that can be done standing, sitting, skipping, sprinting, or anything that crosses midline like touching R elbow to L knee. For the most part, it is very light activity minus the crawling. It would be a very good way to introduce an extremely deconditioned individual into feeling and moving better to prepare for higher levels of activity. As for doing it everyday - as a few here have said and I will echo again, it has good restorative power and really helps awaken the CNS.

I now realize I rambled a lot but hopefully that helps a little bit
 
@wespom9

Lots of good points. The only thing I'll say, is that if the right corrective is done at the right time, the affect is immediate. I'll agree that getting it to stick will take time that depends on the situation, but in general it should take less work each session. If not, something is missing.
 
If you fixed a hole in your drywall, you probably wouldn't be throwing baseballs at it right after you finish, but we kind of do the same with our bodies. We sit in chairs for hours a day.
+1

The idea of doing something daily is constant maintenance, rather than letting something break and then needing correctives.
+1

Pavel seems to be a bigger fan of daily exercise than the average strength trainer, so I'm not sure why the idea of daily work would sound crazy to a fan of Pavel.

I also brush my teeth every day, for what its worth :)
+1

OS is ... not about correctives, its about a movement practice, and a mindful one at that.
I have found some of OS' suggestions to be among the highest "bang for the buck" for me in terms of simply feeling better. Most nights, I do maybe 30 seconds of rocking combined with head nodding - it has a way of taking the kinks out of my body that nothing else does. The results are near-instant, and consistent, and the investment of time and energy so small as to be negligible. What is not to like about that?

FWIW, I have no connection to OS. I bought the very first book back when for $10, and have only read about it since then.

-S-
 
@wespom9

Lots of good points. The only thing I'll say, is that if the right corrective is done at the right time, the affect is immediate. I'll agree that getting it to stick will take time that depends on the situation, but in general it should take less work each session. If not, something is missing.

Yep totally agree. That's the fun part of working with clients, seeing what works for them and what doesn't
 
Question about the Big 5-

Breathing - is OS breathing taught differently than what is taught at an SFG Level 1 course?

Neck nods- are these different nods than what was taught in the old CK-FMS?

Rolling - Is this different rolling than what FMS has had in their library since the late 1990's?

Rocking- transitioning from quadruped to child's pose I'm assuming. Any different than this yoga practice?

Crawling- is this different crawling than what Gray has been promoting for some time now?

Unless the big 5 are different than what I'm assuming them to be, These resets are what people we all listen to have been teaching for quite some time. I Maybe I'm mistaken, which according to my wife is a regular occurance, but I just don't get it - how are they different/better?
 
Breathing - I have yet to take my SFG 1 but it is taught exactly the same as FMS level II. Crocodile breathing, or on back with knees bent and feet flat on floor, one hand on chest and one on stomach. Both positions monitoring the breath coming from the diaphragm and not the upper chest. Can be done in other positions as well.

Neck nods - I haven't taken the CK-FMS so will not comment.

Rolling - in the version of the book I have - "Pressing Reset: Original Strength Reloaded" it literally mentions it is exactly as written by Gray Cook in "Movement"

Rocking - sounds like it is the same. There are progressions listed in the book as well, such as being on your toes so knees and shins are off the ground (which worked wonders for my hip and lumbar spine)

Crawling - I haven't seen a specific article where Gray discusses the technique of crawling, but he does promote it a lot. Not sure if its covered in the Primitive Patterns DVD either.

note - for rocking and crawling, the OS book promotes the head up, with crown pointing at the sky and eyes on the horizon. This is definitely different than what the FMS stuff has in their quadruped positions, where the neck and t-spine are kept more in neutral. OS is also very big on keeping the tongue pressed to the roof of the mouth to help accentuate the diaphragmatic breathing.

I don't think any of it is really different than what is out there, rather it is just collected and presented in a novel way. As far as I know (though I obviously am unaware of many resources), no other source has presented all those patterns into a format like OS has. As far as better, that is up to each individual to decide.
 
Got it. Since this is a StrongFirst forum, I feel obligated to point out that breathing, neck nods, rolling, rocking and everything that crawling addresses is included in a Turkish get up. Kettlebells from the Ground Up 1 and 2 have those same progressions as part of the TGU. Not trying to be argumentative, but point out more resources.
 
Absolutely, my TGU became much easier with some rolling. I had no idea those were all listed as progressions in those DVD's but that is awesome. Great to have many more resources; I find the more I hear about something the more it makes sense and the more little things I pick up along the way. I've always wanted to get those DVD's, might be the icing on the cake for me to pull the trigger.
 
Great discussion. Thank you for your insightful questions, @B.Hetzler. I'm not affiliated with OS, but I've felt great benefit from it. The Turkish Get Up and the variations from "From the Ground Up" definitely covers a lot of these bases. Great resource. OS compliments my get ups well. Hard rolls really helped me in "to elbow" part of the get up.

Another thing that wespom is that nothing holds for everyone, or that there are no absolutes. I think some people's bodies just maintain great mechanics better than others. I have a 24 year old younger brother who is on the computer a LOT. Throughout high school, all his free time was on the computer, with his knees up by his chin. He doesn't exercise at all. He sees one of my other brothers and I training all the time, so one time he just grabbed the bar and cranked out some pull ups, easily pressed a 20kg bell (he had never touched a kettlebell, never lifted weights, not even bench press, nothing). He can jump and hang on to a basketball rim at under 6 ft. He definitely could have been a natural if he pursued sports. Its crazy though because I would expect him to have tight hips and a distorted posture, but he doesn't. Others may need very frequent correctives just from the wear of daily living, even if they don't sit in as bad of posture as he does. Who knows where he'll be in 5 years if he keeps that up, with no physical activity, but at least to this point, he hasn't been hurt for lack of activity.

OS is kind of like "Movement" for the layperson. It's not that its new, its that its streamlined. Maybe like the PTTP of fundamental human movements.
 
I'm just tired of needing to sit on yoga blocks or a bolster to do a proper forward fold (I need the elevation to tilt my pelvis forward). I've started doing a daily practice a friend/yoga instructor put together for me, and just re-watched the recording of Mark Reifkind's Body Maintenance Workshop from Average to Elite. I could stand to open my shoulders up a little, too, but my biggest need is the general area around my thighs.

My copy of Pressing Reset just came yesterday. I have some inherent skepticism about the whole basis (not that I have the background to be, but it comes off sounding funny), but hey, if it's effective, who cares.

I'm not totally sure what my expectations should be. I can't tell if it's about getting over pain, opening up these sticky areas, both, or what. It's definitely a unique approach. I think I might just do the daily reset for a month and using downward dog to test the effectiveness.
 
The issue with mobility is the expectation that we want instant results. Those that stick to a mobility programme consistently and diligently get them over time within the huge variance of the human condition, perhaps, those that don't, well, don't.
 
@B.Hetzler The idea of doing the resets daily is to counter the long sitting time and being immobile. A person that moves all day and doesn't spend much time sitting and never unlearned how to move wouldn't need OS.

The basic idea is to take these movements humans do to first to aquire their ability to move and use them as "reset" in order to regain that ability that is lost due to lifestyle. Crawling for instance is useful because it trains the correct work of arms and legs during locomotion which people often don't do any more during walking (think texting while walking).
The cool thing I found for me is that the effect remains and it gets better over time that is you don't start every time at square one but get better over time as you get better for instance in crawling. I also noticed that I am generally much more mobile and need much less warming up before barbell training. In order to improve one can crawl for longer distance or time and do more difficult versions.
Maybe @GeoffNeupert likes to charm in. I am not a trainer, just a reader and practitioner.

@Hard roll: I was referring to one of Tim Anderson's clips. The effect on the body is also different. The hard roll is a good test to see how well the body is connected. The segmental roll feels great to open the upper back and to open the hips. Also a nice way to stretch the hip flexors. You don't get this from the hard roll.
 
@Marlon Leon - several good points. But we are quite a ways into this discussion, and have used 'reset' several times. What exactly are we 'resetting'?

I don't have any desire to move like a baby. While I appreciate how babies move, even the goal of a baby isn't to move like a baby - their goal is to become an optimal human, which requires a lot more than rolling and crawling. Why, after a baby has progressed past crawling in their development, do they rarely revert back to it ? Once a kid can walk, that is their preferred form of locomotion-they don't reset with crawling.
 
@B.Hetzler We are quite a ways into this discussion and have already covered this several times. The idea is that most people do NOT move optimally, so we use the same movements that babies used to move optimally in order to move better. The idea is that these resets DO improve your natural gait and posture, not just the movements themselves. In my mind, we've pretty much exhausted the concept. Some people need more work than others to counter the effects of sedentary living (sedentary includes EVERYONE who works over 20 hours work week involving a chair in any capacity, regardless of other physical activity). Some people can get by without doing anything, their body maintains good mechanics others don't. OS works. The reasoning or science or marketing of it doesn't matter. As Al Ciampa says, he doesn't agree with their reasoning, but he has found value in it. Pavel also mentions how the "science" behind many training protocols changes, but results and effectiveness don't. Regardless of the science behind OS, it works for people who use it, and for those that use it, it is simple, can be done anytime anywhere, and is ENJOYABLE.

I've loved this discussion, but it seems it's turning into pointless argument. Safe to say the OS part of the discussion is done?

How is your search for a mobility program going, @alex88 ?
 
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@jca17 you will have to excuse me, guess I'm a little slow.

I've been asking for quite awhile trying to understand what these resets are actually resetting. I get no answers, sarcasm, but no answers. I get "they don't need science" to prove they work. I get "we feel better". What I don't get are answers. Oddly, when I've been challenged to provide science to backstop my stance, I've been able to provide it.

Guess I'll stop asking my questions now.
 
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