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Other/Mixed Mountain Strong

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Brief experience share for mountain/uphill training.
Recent training has been:

Strength - A+A using both LCCJ and jumping split squats, plus a few easy sets of pull-ups, occasional TGU, and one set of core at the end of each session. Plus some prehab/bulletproofing for warmups.

Running: each week: 1 run of LISS with strides/easy sprint every 5min. 1 run of LISS with a few rounds of LT HR zone for 3-8min. 1 run of pure Z1-2 LISS.

Observations: since adding the A+A, particularly the jumping split squats, I have noticed real improvements in running up hills.
How long/short were the A&A Sessions you did? I'm quite interested in how you made that work for your chosen sport.

On yet another note I found an interesting viewpoint from Rob Shaul, founder of the Mountain Tactical Institute (formerly Mountain Athlete and Military Athlete). This is Rob's viewpoint on Strength standards for military/mountain athletes.

The Mountain Athlete means someone like a recreational skier/hiker, et cetera. Mountain Professional means mountain guide, wildland firefighter, et cetera. Tactical Athlete is military/law enforcement types. Curious to see the opinions of everyone here:

Screen-Shot-2021-03-05-at-2.22.57-PM.png

Note: Hinge Lift is Mountain Tactical Institute's deadlift variant (link)
 

Georgiaoutdoors

Level 2 Valued Member
How long/short were the A&A Sessions you did? I'm quite interested in how you made that work for your chosen sport.
Prior to A+A, I had done about 6-8 weeks of Q&D. For better or worse, I get bored too easily training, especially doing the same movement and over again as in typical A+A. So I chose two movements to have some variety. Jumping split squats because they train explosiveness and endurance in the primary movers used in running uphill in a movement pattern somewhat similar to running steeps hills. I chose LCCJ because I also wanted to maintain some sort of GPP strength and endurance and this seemed like a good bang for the buck. I started doing 10min of each, reps every 30s. I experimented both with increasing the number of reps every 30s as well as the overall duration up to 15min each and then 20min each. I don’t know if splitting my A+A session that was was detrimental to overall improvement, but I enjoyed it and there’s no way I’d ever just do split squats for 30-40min straight.

As far as the standards you mentioned. They seem alright to me. I like the squats and hinges. Bench press seems of limited value for a trail runner/hiker/ocr racer. I’ve done some fairly long and strenuous backpacking and I doubt bench would have helped much. Pull-ups also seems of limited value for a pure runner/hiker. That being said, since I value GPP and longevity, I would still probably train all of those lifts from time to time.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
How long/short were the A&A Sessions you did? I'm quite interested in how you made that work for your chosen sport.

On yet another note I found an interesting viewpoint from Rob Shaul, founder of the Mountain Tactical Institute (formerly Mountain Athlete and Military Athlete). This is Rob's viewpoint on Strength standards for military/mountain athletes.

The Mountain Athlete means someone like a recreational skier/hiker, et cetera. Mountain Professional means mountain guide, wildland firefighter, et cetera. Tactical Athlete is military/law enforcement types. Curious to see the opinions of everyone here:

Screen-Shot-2021-03-05-at-2.22.57-PM.png

Note: Hinge Lift is Mountain Tactical Institute's deadlift variant (link)
Well… waaaay back in the day based upon Rob’s activity description and what I was doing I would have been in the borderline Mountain Pro / Tactical Groups. Yet I would have fallen way short on Bench Press. And whilst 15 pull-ups was always doable (back then), I maintain that they are of less value to climbers than many people make them out to be.

If I was trying to meet some standard I would lean closer to trying to meet the UA box step fitness test:
i.e. 300m elevation gain with 20% BW pack (in boots)
good: 20-40min
excellent: <20min
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Having followed Rob's Mountain/Military Athlete for a large chunk of 2013-2014 I was recently inspired by this thread to create a training split of my own inspired by both Mountain Athlete and this thread built around a single barbell session per week with two A&A and two endurance sessions in a week.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Having followed Rob's Mountain/Military Athlete for a large chunk of 2013-2014 I was recently inspired by this thread to create a training split of my own inspired by both Mountain Athlete and this thread built around a single barbell session per week with two A&A and two endurance sessions in a week.
How would you feel about sharing some more detail?
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Well sure, @offwidth . Bear in mind I'm presently still running a 3x/week strength program and when I've peaked off of that I'll switch into the program below.

The lifting split was inspired heavily (pun intended) by both Mountain Athlete and StrongFirst

Bench 8x3
Front Squat 8x3
Deadlift: 5,3,2 or 2x5
Pullups in sets of 2-3x superset between each set.

The two 8x3 sets entail a trio of warm-up sets and 5x3 at a 'Hard But Doable' level per Rob's Big 24 program (here). The Deadlift will be at a 10RM and I'll keep adding weight as weeks progress. I've also considered just a single set of 5 for the deadlift, with a heaviest '5' I could pull on that particular day.

Endurance days are multi-or-single modal focused on running, rucking, swimming, rowing, box stepups with a loaded pack, et cetera.

A&A is inspired by Simple and Sinister in terms of build around swing, getup, goblet squat:

Goblet Squat: 3x5

The A&A portion consists of 20 Minutes of:

Swings x 5 coupled off with low volume sets of calisthenics (pushups, pullups, or kickstand squats - do any two of these on the even/odd sets respectively)

Getups: 10-15 minutes

This is a draft program, and I'm still halfway through my Bench/Squat/Deadlift program built around mostly the Stress Free Strength program described on an earlier article here.
 
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offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Well sure, @offwidth . Bear in mind I'm presently still running a 3x/week strength program and when I've peaked off of that I'll switch into the program below.

The lifting split was inspired heavily (pun intended) by both Mountain Athlete and StrongFirst

Bench 8x3
Front Squat 8x3
Deadlift: 5,3,2 or 2x5
Pullups in sets of 2-3x superset between each set.

The two 8x3 sets entail a trio of warm-up sets and 5x3 at a 'Hard But Doable' level per Rob's Big 24 program (here). The Deadlift will be at a 10RM and I'll keep adding weight as weeks progress. I've also considered just a single set of 5 for the deadlift, with a heaviest '5' I could pull on that particular day.

Endurance days are multi-or-single modal focused on running, rucking, swimming, rowing, box stepups with a loaded pack, et cetera.

A&A is inspired by Simple and Sinister in terms of build around swing, getup, goblet squat:

Goblet Squat: 3x5

The A&A portion consists of 20 Minutes of:

Swings x 5 coupled off with low volume sets of calisthenics (pushups, pullups, or kickstand squats - do any two of these on the even/odd sets respectively)

Getups: 10-15 minutes

This is a draft program, and I'm still halfway through my Bench/Squat/Deadlift program built around mostly the Stress Free Strength program described on an earlier article here.
Nice.
What distances (or time) are you planning for your LED endurance? Like running or rucking for example?
 

rwleonard

Level 7 Valued Member
Having followed Rob's Mountain/Military Athlete for a large chunk of 2013-2014 I was recently inspired by this thread to create a training split of my own inspired by both Mountain Athlete and this thread built around a single barbell session per week with two A&A and two endurance sessions in a week.
I have been doing something similar for a few weeks. 3-4 hours on trail on Monday, 1.5-2 hours on Thursday, with varying loads/speeds. Tuesday/Friday are either Q&D snatches or A+A Long Cycles, six week blocks. Saturday is box step ups and Sunday an optional kettlebell session. I haven't really settled in on how to fit max strength work in. Not too sure I really need much if I do the Q&D/A+A right.

I haven't trained pure endurance for a long time. I always hated road running, but I am really enjoying the trail runs and hikes.
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Nice.
What distances (or time) are you planning for your LED endurance? Like running or rucking for example?
Time would be contingent on my work schedule.

In terms of multi-modal endurance (I beta-tested a session for it yesterday) I'd do twenty minutes per mode, yesterday's session was:
  1. Stepups for 20 minutes to a 30" box wearing a 23.5 lbs backpack: I got a 650 foot elevation gain out of the deal
  2. Swim for 20 minutes: 275 meters (I did 25 meter intervals, recovering near-fully then swam again for whole of twenty minutes)
A single modal session can be from as short as 22 minutes (work schedule being a big deal here) to as long as an hour...ocassionally longer.

Bearing in mind, when I get to where I'm going for reserve reasons I'll be walking everywhere (1-2 KM one way at the gym at work), so that's still more endurance work.

Also 2-3 nights/week I plan to attend the jiujitsu training the base gym has scheduled in the evenings.
 
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LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Having talked with @offwidth just now, apparently 30” is quite tall for a step up. I had settled on that height for step ups based on the 30” steps when marching across the drill field as a military recruit some years ago.

I’m probably gonna use 12”-18” steps next time.
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks. In that instance I was trying to keep my heart rate below zone 2. It did explain why it jumped into the zone 3 by a few beers (156 BPM). Wasn’t trying to go too anaerobic with the stepups.
 

Coyote

Level 6 Valued Member
If I was trying to meet some standard I would lean closer to trying to meet the UA box step fitness test:
i.e. 300m elevation gain with 20% BW pack (in boots)
good: 20-40min
excellent: <20min
Man I need to work on my reading retention. I do not remember seeing this and my copy of the Uphill Athlete book is dog eared.

Dumb question: How do you measure elevation gain on box step-up? Is it simple box height x how many steps?

According to Google there are 11811 inches in 300 meters, so 738 step-ups on a 16" box?
 

Coyote

Level 6 Valued Member
I have my 50 miler on 11/6 and I am strongly considering doing something different for my next challenge. I am booooooooored with running.

Not enough to completely stop, but I am so slow I bore myself.
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Man I need to work on my reading retention. I do not remember seeing this and my copy of the Uphill Athlete book is dog eared.

Dumb question: How do you measure elevation gain on box step-up? Is it simple box height x how many steps?

According to Google there are 11811 inches in 300 meters, so 738 step-ups on a 16" box?
Box height in inches times number of steps divided by 12" to get height in feet.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Man I need to work on my reading retention. I do not remember seeing this and my copy of the Uphill Athlete book is dog eared.

Dumb question: How do you measure elevation gain on box step-up? Is it simple box height x how many steps?

According to Google there are 11811 inches in 300 meters, so 738 step-ups on a 16" box?
I actually cannot say for certain that it is in TFTUA but it is in TFTNA… so same thing.
But yeah just multiply number of step‘s by height of step (in any units your heart desires) to get elevation gain.
 
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