all posts post new thread

Other/Mixed Mountain Strong

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
And that’s the prescription; use weighted step-ups in a progressive pattern when training in mountain environments isn’t an option. I caught wind of this approach from Mark Twight who successfully summited east coast based clients. Given a preference I’m 110% with you!
Rob Shaul of Mountain/Military Athlete fame is also a big proponent of stepups. I recall encountering them in his programming on a routine basis.

On another, unrelated, note I like the concepts put out by Mountain Athlete (building a pound for pound stronger, faster mountaineer with a big gas tank) and seeing the potential transfer for yet another weight constrained athlete with a wide mix of requirements...the fighter/combat athlete.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
And that’s the prescription; use weighted step-ups in a progressive pattern when training in mountain environments isn’t an option. I caught wind of this approach from Mark Twight who successfully summited east coast based clients. Given a preference I’m 110% with you!
Yep!
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Elite Certified Instructor
Another wrinkle: I use stair sprints for my Q&D-like training. I walk under the train tracks here in my town, and it's 20 stairs that I take two at a time. Seems like it takes about the right length of time to complete, and most times it's just once on the way to the grocery store and once on the way home, so it's not really Q&D because the rest period between is lengthy - it's me doing my grocery shopping. So you get your steps-up and you get your sprinting in both.

-S-
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Yesterday I had yet another 'win' in the endurance department. Yet again I managed to run laps around our 400m track at a purely Zone 2 (actually mostly Zone 1) heartrate for 22 minutes. I got a total of 2.45 kilometers out of the run, nothing impressive but I didn't get the usual Zone 3 'spikes' I tend to get while running so I'm happy for that.

Additionally aforementioned run was .12 kilometers further than the run last week for same time interval and I also had a lower average heartrate (125 BPM versus 130 BPM). I may increase the run duration by 10% to 24 minutes next week or the week after as a result of this.

The fact that I walk everywhere on our base could be helping my aerobic base is the theory.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @LoneRider

I tend to agree with your walking everywhere theory. My father walks a lot. When he does not actually walk (shopping, going for a walk nearby...) he is just very active (work in the house or garden, climbing stairs, etc...). Otherwise, he does not pratice an actual "sport". His RHR is 57 and he is 68yo

I guess what you experience comes from cumulative volume. Your body slowly adapts to a very frequent stress without being in "overdrive".

Obviously, I am not a super experienced runner (which is essentially trail running with hills everywhere so I can be wrong), but I got the best results by doing a mix of long easy runs, tempo run and sprint work. Tempo and sprint sessions increase your aerobic max speed. By doing them, over time, you can run faster and longer while staying in your aerobic zone. To a certain extent, it is possible to do so without them, but this drastically speed up the process. Funny enough, tempo runs are harder than sprint sessions, at least for my weird body !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Obviously, I am not a super experienced runner (which is essentially trail running with hills everywhere so I can be wrong), but I got the best results by doing a mix of long easy runs, tempo run and sprint work.

@pet'

Primal Endurance had a good 'instinctive' program for tempo run and sprint programming...namely don't do either of these unless feeling 100% in all regards. I tend to follow this concept and rely on kettlebell ballistics for aspects of sprint work.

Also, on another note, here's another great hit from Mountain Tactical Institute (the merging of the Military and Mountain Athlete programming per Rob Shaul's new thing):

 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Below is a SF article which includes programming:

It blends pretty well strength, aerobic work, but also tempo runs. I ran it several months with good results overall.

Currently, I tend to be very [too much ?] intuitive as far as conditioning goes. I use fartlek a lot. That way, I get the aerobic work while getting the sprint in the same session, without doing a longer or dedicated session. Basically, without a timer or whatever, I do a sprint, then get back to regular LISS. This can be done 20, 30 40 minutes, to your liking.

That may not be optimal, but work pretty well to save time or if weights are not available.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

TedDK

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,

Below is a SF article which includes programming:

It blends pretty well strength, aerobic work, but also tempo runs. I ran it several months with good results overall.

Currently, I tend to be very [too much ?] intuitive as far as conditioning goes. I use fartlek a lot. That way, I get the aerobic work while getting the sprint in the same session, without doing a longer or dedicated session. Basically, without a timer or whatever, I do a sprint, then get back to regular LISS. This can be done 20, 30 40 minutes, to your liking.

That may not be optimal, but work pretty well to save time or if weights are not available.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Just a short input from me thats more a runner than anything else :-D
Fartlek is fantastic :)
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Of late the broad vision of Mountain Athlete, to create a stronger and faster mountaineer, has caught my interest for its transferability (or possibility thereof) for fighters.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I’m sure there is crossover potential, however…

The essence of mountaineering is spending long grinding efforts in the mountains, often at altitude, and in challenging weather conditions; punctuated on occasion by bursts of extremely hard efforts Add Alpinism to the mix and you are adding oftentimes very technical and dangerous climbing.

12 to 36 hour efforts are not that uncommon. A far cry from 3 x 3minute rounds in the ‘comfort’ of the ring.

The purpose of training for either endeavor (climbing or fighting) is to make the participants as indestructible as possible in their given arena.
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Noted, however I submit that MMA fighters have longer than 3x3 minute rounds at higher levels. Additionally BJJ tournaments can be multiple bouts with unknown rest periods between heats, in the span of a tournament. The former is where I see the big gas tank coming in handy.
 

TedDK

Level 5 Valued Member
Im not even close to a mountain here in Denmark, we have some small hills :-D
But i really like the idea of all terrain conditioning and sometimes i need some other thing to do than running.

Any ideas?
 

TedDK

Level 5 Valued Member
Of late the broad vision of Mountain Athlete, to create a stronger and faster mountaineer, has caught my interest for its transferability (or possibility thereof) for fighters.
For fighters i will recommend if you not allready have read it, to read Ultimate MMA conditioning by Joel Jamieson.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Im not even close to a mountain here in Denmark, we have some small hills :-D
But i really like the idea of all terrain conditioning and sometimes i need some other thing to do than running.

Any ideas?
Rowing ? Rucking ? Step ups ? I even read on MTI a while ago that walking lunges, weighted or not, (so relatively high rep training) are a good choice.

Maybe I'll be very "general" but conditioning can be considered as a pyramid:
The base of the pyramid is your aerobic system. The more you develop it, the more you can handle higher output - meaning activities which require an HR [way] higher than the max HR in which you are still in the aerobic zone. Aerobic system acts as a vaccum cleaner for lactate. The more your vaccum cleaner is developped (= the more powerful it is), the more lactate your body can process, which means the more you can handle a demanding activity. This is the function for lactate management. Otherwise, working on the aerobic threshold will extend your aerobic zone which will help you to recover faster. It also makes your RHR lower

Higher on the pyramid is Z4-Z5 training. These are the energy pathways a fighter uses during the fighting sequences. In boxing it will be during the striking phases for instance. You'll tend to have lower HR during all the other phases (footwork...). It is important to work on because it will teach your body how to perform "all out action" (and possibly exceed lactate threshold).

Working only the top end of the pyramid lead to "aerobic deficiency syndrom", which means your are able to perform well during high intensity activities but will have trouble to recover from them. This issue can also be found during a high intensity activity which would last longer than expected.

Usually 70-80% of the training is supposed to be in the aerobic zone. For fighting sports, at least at recreational level, it may also work. However, it remains possible to decrease this load to 50-60 to work more on specifics, as the deadline comes closer.

Working on local muscular endurance (exp: ability to perform sets of 100 push ups in row) is usually detrimental for strength. However, working on cardio vascular endurance is not detrimental (and is even necessary) to build a good Z4/5 ability.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Im not even close to a mountain here in Denmark, we have some small hills :-D
But i really like the idea of all terrain conditioning and sometimes i need some other thing to do than running.

Any ideas?
Rucking and loaded/unloaded stepups. I'm sure you have stairs or something you could walk up and down with a loaded backpack for half an hour.
 

TedDK

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,


Rowing ? Rucking ? Step ups ? I even read on MTI a while ago that walking lunges, weighted or not, (so relatively high rep training) are a good choice.

Maybe I'll be very "general" but conditioning can be considered as a pyramid:
The base of the pyramid is your aerobic system. The more you develop it, the more you can handle higher output - meaning activities which require an HR [way] higher than the max HR in which you are still in the aerobic zone. Aerobic system acts as a vaccum cleaner for lactate. The more your vaccum cleaner is developped (= the more powerful it is), the more lactate your body can process, which means the more you can handle a demanding activity. This is the function for lactate management. Otherwise, working on the aerobic threshold will extend your aerobic zone which will help you to recover faster. It also makes your RHR lower

Higher on the pyramid is Z4-Z5 training. These are the energy pathways a fighter uses during the fighting sequences. In boxing it will be during the striking phases for instance. You'll tend to have lower HR during all the other phases (footwork...). It is important to work on because it will teach your body how to perform "all out action" (and possibly exceed lactate threshold).

Working only the top end of the pyramid lead to "aerobic deficiency syndrom", which means your are able to perform well during high intensity activities but will have trouble to recover from them. This issue can also be found during a high intensity activity which would last longer than expected.

Usually 70-80% of the training is supposed to be in the aerobic zone. For fighting sports, at least at recreational level, it may also work. However, it remains possible to decrease this load to 50-60 to work more on specifics, as the deadline comes closer.

Working on local muscular endurance (exp: ability to perform sets of 100 push ups in row) is usually detrimental for strength. However, working on cardio vascular endurance is not detrimental (and is even necessary) to build a good Z4/5 ability.

Kind regards,

Pet'
I know the conditioning recommendations from running. So it was more something like fx stepups which i have used for strength but not conditioning yet.
The reason i sometimes need other than running, i forgot to mention is that om alone with my son at 6 years old. So not allways i can get out running and therefore rowing and rucking isnt the best solution.

But i will try stepups some time.
 

TedDK

Level 5 Valued Member
Actually the most of my running is in my lunch break at job so its only 30min a time.
So something to to at home is great :)
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I know the conditioning recommendations from running. So it was more something like fx stepups which i have used for strength but not conditioning yet.
The reason i sometimes need other than running, i forgot to mention is that om alone with my son at 6 years old. So not allways i can get out running and therefore rowing and rucking isnt the best solution.

But i will try stepups some time.
Step ups would definitely work for this type of conditioning in your situation
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Used in any specific way or just like i would in running, fx 30min "steady state"?
They're as versatile as running. I usually count out every 25-30 steps, pause and make a tick mark in my notebook and then carry on for the time interval, say 30 minutes.
 
Top Bottom