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Other/Mixed Mountain Strong

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@TedDK
Here is a loaded step up article with time, load and HR:

The article below underlines another routine which may also interest you because it can be done from home:

As far as programming is concerned, I'd use the 2nd article template (033) but would do step ups as mentioned in the first article instead of the rucks, on alternate days.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

TedDK

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,

@TedDK
Here is a loaded step up article with time, load and HR:

The article below underlines another routine which may also interest you because it can be done from home:

As far as programming is concerned, I'd use the 2nd article template (033) but would do step ups as mentioned in the first article instead of the rucks, on alternate days.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Thanks.

I have actually seen the first one. But havent try it. Im more into just find a bench and step up for 30min like Lonerider recommends.
Its just to "complicated/not simple enough" for me first to measure the right hight to step up to. Then calculate HR and so on....

I know its just the way i am. But im more the Nike guy(Just do it) :-D
 

Pantrolyx

Level 6 Valued Member
Of late the broad vision of Mountain Athlete, to create a stronger and faster mountaineer, has caught my interest for its transferability (or possibility thereof) for fighters.
Hiking in the woods and mountains, often with a considerable load in my backpack, is one of my great passions.
So is martial arts.
The actual conditioning carryover between the two is very limited in my experience, though.
I prefer to consider the respective acitivites as mutually beneficial to complete health and well being.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @TedDK

To be honest, when I do step ups, I just do them with nasal breathing and do not measure anything. I step up and down on a regular pace without stopping, as if I was walking. It works just fine ;)

Something as simple as stairs work perfectly as well. I did a lot of time in my building stairs with my backpack ! Otherwise, you can tie together several planks. Planks have to be wide enough to avoid they tip over when you step up.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

TedDK

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello @TedDK

To be honest, when I do step ups, I just do them with nasal breathing and do not measure anything. I step up and down on a regular pace without stopping, as if I was walking. It works just fine ;)

Something as simple as stairs work perfectly as well. I did a lot of time in my building stairs with my backpack ! Otherwise, you can tie together several planks. Planks have to be wide enough to avoid they tip over when you step up.

Kind regards,

Pet'
I have stools in diff hights. So no problem :)
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Just like running. You can do steady state LED, Intervals, Fartlek, etc. I use either a gate counter, or a cadence sensor when I am interested in number of steps.
 

Alaska80

Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks.

I have actually seen the first one. But havent try it. Im more into just find a bench and step up for 30min like Lonerider recommends.
Its just to "complicated/not simple enough" for me first to measure the right hight to step up to. Then calculate HR and so on....

I know its just the way i am. But im more the Nike guy(Just do it) :-D

Great approach. Not to poo poo a SF article, but I chuckle when people make step ups super complicated.

When I train step ups I use whatever available height I have. Car trailers, rocks, bench, chairs, stools etc.. Spend more time doing the work, than tracking a complicated system. Let your breathing moderate your intensity. As for height, when you walk in the mountains the normal step height is about 6-8 inches, anything above that is very inefficient and possibly dangerous depending on terrain.

True alpinists (I am not one. When the weather gets deadly I push off the summit and shelter it out.) are the toughest people on this planet and when you read their training plans they use whatever is available to do step ups. Steve House, one of the best Alpinists in the world has always used a 12in step for his base building.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I chuckle when people make step ups super complicated.
Yes!
are the toughest people on this planet
Yes!
Steve House, one of the best Alpinists in the world has always used a 12in step for his base building.
Yes to the 12” step. Although I don’t think that Steve has always used box steps in his base building training, but he certainly recommends box steps as a part of ‘dry land’ training.
 
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LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Hiking in the woods and mountains, often with a considerable load in my backpack, is one of my great passions.
So is martial arts.
The actual conditioning carryover between the two is very limited in my experience, though.
I prefer to consider the respective acitivites as mutually beneficial to complete health and well being.

Certainly I see your point. May I ask which Martial Art(s) you train in?

In my own case I recall this quote from Iassen Donov in the article: Physical Trianing in a Tier One Unit as pertaining to Mountain Athlete:

One of the lesser utilized fitness regimes at the Tier 1 level, but still done enough to warrant a mention! Brought to you by the same folks who bring you Military Athlete (specifically Rob Shaul), Mountain Athlete, as the name implies, is designed to create a faster and stronger mountaineer. For a unit at war in the unforgiving mountains of Afghanistan, this is a great program. Much of Mountain Athlete revolves around finger and hand strength, pulling strength, and endurance/stamina. (Emphasis Mine)

The hand and finger strength and pulling strength correspond nicely to gi-based jiujitsu and endurance/stamina speak well to a 90+ minute class (or 120+ minute open mat) to me right off the bat.

I've used Rob's programming through much of 2013-2014 (Mountain Athlete then later Military Athlete) and found it solid stuff.

Shaul also has a 'pound for pound' strength test on his site which catches my attention as useful for fighters given fighters have weight constraints unless in the heavyweight category.

 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I would respectfully counter just a bit. Hand and finger strength, whilst undeniably important to high end rock climbers, has a much, much, lower level of importance for a mountaineer. Mountaineering, just doesn’t require it.

If, however, one is including Alpinism in the discussion, then hand and finger strength (and pull strength) certainly become more important and desirable to have.

That being said… grip (hand and finger strength) training has its own rewards, and definitely has crossover to a variety of pursuits.
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
I would respectfully counter just a bit. Hand and finger strength, whilst undeniably important to high end rock climbers, has a much, much, lower level of importance for a mountaineer. Mountaineering, just doesn’t require it.

If, however, one is including Alpinism in the discussion, then hand and finger strength (and pull strength) certainly become more important and desirable to have.

That being said… grip (hand and finger strength) training has its own rewards, and definitely has crossover to a variety of pursuits.
Bear in mind the author isn’t a mountaineer per se, but a Ranger. In military context mountaineering includes things along the lines of alpinism, but with heavier kit,
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Well, I didn’t know that about the author, so thank you. But this is a subject I am somewhat passionate about, and have some limited experience in, so please forgive me everybody if any of this comes off in the wrong way…

We may be getting to a point where some definitions might help the audience here. Alpinism is not things like climbing Mt. Rainer, or Denali by the West Buttress. Even climbing Mt.Everest by the North Col route (as done by guided clients) is not Alpinism. This is all mountaineering. Not that mountaineering isn’t difficult and challenging, and requires a good level of fitness, because it does. It’s just that Alpinism is at another level of magnitude altogether.

Think of routes such as the Slovak Direct on Denail, The Rupal Face on Nanga Parabat, Closer to home, maybe any of the routes on the Emperor Face on Robson, or the North Face of North Twin.

These things are pretty far from any military context that I am aware of. No one in the military is training to climb stuff like this, not even close. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Pure Alpinism would serve the military zero purpose. There is a pretty small population of climbers out there that are true alpinists. The risk is too high, the skill sets too many and varied, and the fitness requirements are too great for most people to consider. Unfortunately and sadly the list of great Alpinists includes many that have died practicing their craft.

Rant over….
 

LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Certainly I find a lot to consider in your rant, so I didn't take offense to it at all @offwidth.

I do recall many military forces run mountain warfare courses (see the US Marines in Bridgeport, CA or the United Kingdom's Mountain Warfare Cadre). The course covers subjects like climbing, rappeling, movement via skis or snowshoes and the like. Would you consider that more mountaineering or alpinism?
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Yes… sort of… However a lot of comes down to context of how the techniques are being used. All of that stuff: ‘climbing’, rappelling, ski travel, glacier travel, snowshoeing, etc., are all part of mountaineering. At least in the context the military would teach.

Now… all of that stuff (and more) is also a part of Alpinism as well, just on a different scale, and level of seriousness. I suppose one could look at mountain travel as bit of a continuum. Very generally and loosely saying…. Hiking and backpacking at one end, Mountaineering in the middle, and Alpinism at the other end. An oversimplification perhaps, and certainly with some crossover depending upon one’s perspective and experience.

Anyone interested in seeing a pretty good representation of modern Alpinism should check out the film The Alpinist. (I think that there is a link to it earlier in this thread)

It’s all good stuff… I could go on all day talking about this topic…
 

Pantrolyx

Level 6 Valued Member
Certainly I see your point. May I ask which Martial Art(s) you train in?

In my own case I recall this quote from Iassen Donov in the article: Physical Trianing in a Tier One Unit as pertaining to Mountain Athlete:



The hand and finger strength and pulling strength correspond nicely to gi-based jiujitsu and endurance/stamina speak well to a 90+ minute class (or 120+ minute open mat) to me right off the bat.

I've used Rob's programming through much of 2013-2014 (Mountain Athlete then later Military Athlete) and found it solid stuff.

Shaul also has a 'pound for pound' strength test on his site which catches my attention as useful for fighters given fighters have weight constraints unless in the heavyweight category.


I train mostly BJJ and kickboxing these days.
Have competed in kickboxing and MMA, and have tested numerous other disciplines (Kombatan, Crazy Monkey Defense, Silat, law enforcement training etc).

And yes, I agree that the carryover might increase if the hiking involves serious climbing etc. My walks in the wild involves climbijng at times, but hardly the sort that requires high level climbijng skills or finger strength.
I actually consider my hiking/rucking more as escapism than exercise, but of course, getting some physical work in is a clear bonus. Being out in the nature is first and foremost valuable (I'd say neccessary) on it's own, though. As for physical preparation towards martial arts, on the other hand I find both running and kettlebells more relevant.

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LoneRider

Level 6 Valued Member
Found this article on Strength Training for Mountain Athlete's from the fine folks at Uphill Athlete. One thing I find of interest is that there are at least three online gyms catering to this flavor of athlete these days (Mountain Athlete by Rob Shaul, Uphill Athlete, and Mountain Tough (MTNTough)) where in 2005 only books by Gym Jones' Mark Twight served as any sort of specific gym based training guidance.

 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I can’t vouch for the other two, and to be fair I haven’t even looked at their stuff online, but Steve House at UA is certainly the real deal when it comes to climbers. I’ve had some conversations with him over the years, and it’s helped me out.

You mention Mark Twight. He’s still got a training presence both online and at a brick and mortar location. Nonprophet. Just be warned if you check out his stuff online...
 
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