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Other/Mixed Mountain Strong

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Well, @John K, Rob Shaul self describes as an old school, gritty gym rat so benching is kind of a thing for the guy. I have to admit the balanced front squat/bench idea really does sound appealing to me in theory.
 
I don’t really see the value of the bench press here… (other than maybe rounding things out). But, I don’t bench, never have, so that’s probably just a personal bias on my part. I like all the other bits of that programme.
I don't see the point of the bench press in there either. I used to compete in Power Lifting and looking back I just don't see the appeal. KB Press, Dumb Bell Press, Incline Press, and weighted Push Ups I understand, Dips as well. I don't see the need to bench in that program.
 
I don't see the point of the bench press in there either. I used to compete in Power Lifting and looking back I just don't see the appeal. KB Press, Dumb Bell Press, Incline Press, and weighted Push Ups I understand, Dips as well. I don't see the need to bench in that program.
Yeah… I’m not against some good old fashioned push ups and dips either… did some today actually…
 
There are a lot of pulls in that program (weighted pull-ups) so I figured also, that presses are needed to balance them out.

More generally speaking hand, finger and pulling strength are things I consider important for mountain sports in the climbing and bouldering side of that continuum. As such some sort of pressing movement should be done to balance the pulling work needed to develop aforementioned pulling and grip strength.
 
Hand and finger strength absolutely! Pulling strength… important, yes, but not so much as one would think.
Really? I would imagine pulling strength would be vital for climbers.

On another note, here's an article on strength standards (also from Mountain Athlete) for three populations the gym services:
  1. Mountain Athletes
  2. Mountain Professionals
  3. Tactical Athletes

Addendum, I found a fitness assessment Rob Shaul designed for alpinists:

 
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Really? I would imagine pulling strength would be vital for climbers.
***warning jaded curmudgeon rant ahead***

Well… let’s think about this a bit. There are a lot of different climbing disciplines. Bouldering, Sport Climbing, Trad Climbing, Big Wall, Aid, Scrambling, Mountaineering, Alpinism, Ice, and Mixed Climbing. Not to mention variations on each. I would suggest that pulling strength as in the classical pull-up, has zero value for three of those. (Aid, Scrambling, and Mountaineering)

Next if we consider that the remaining disciplines have a pretty much equal proportion of attributes we find that strength (all types) is really only a third of the equation.

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Now think about the actual climbing movement itself. In most instances a climber is not pulling themselves up the rock. It really is quadrupedal in nature. One uses their arms and legs. There is a lot of pushing upwards with the legs; assisted of course by the arms, (not just pulling, but pushing as well); but not that often requiring a great two arm pull-up ability. Are there climbs where being able to do a one arm pull-up is needed? Yes, but very few and far between.


One can, and I’ll argue should, rely on the technique and mental aspects of climbing before worrying about any type of strength. I know some very ‘strong’ climbers that aren’t really all that strong, because, they know how to climb. Like 5.12 climbers that can’t do a proper pull-up. I will go further and posit that an abundance of strength in some cases will actually hinder the long term performance of a climber. To a certain level one can mask sloppy technique with strength, but that will only take a person so far, often times ingraining bad technique habits that are hard to undo.


But there will come a time when strength starts to become increasingly more important, and one won’t get away without it. Is that pull strength though? My position is that contact strength (Hand and finger strength) is of prime importance once we start talking about strength training for climbing. Second to this is (and I dislike the term) ‘core’ strength. Being able to actually transfer the strength between the fingers and toes. Pretty important. This brings us lastly to pull strength. When you look at modern bouldering and sport climbing, one sees that it is typically on very steep (overhanging terrain). Keep in mind we still need to in most cases keep our feet on the rock as well. This points to a different kind of pull strength requirement. It’s more about pulling into the rock, not up it. These days the smart pull training money is on doing one arm rows; either with a weight like in the time honored dumbbell row, or by doing one arm Aussie pull-ups (horizontal rows) on rings or a suspension trainer.


What about regular pull-ups? Climbers love to do pull-ups. They have trained this way since time immemorial. I love to do pull-ups. They are very rewarding and easy to programme. Should we as climbers train pull-ups? Absolutely. They are a component of a complete training for climbing programme, just not as important as many other things…

rant over
 
@offwidth, thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. Jaded curmodgeon rants contain pearls of hard-earned wisdom after all.

On a separate note, here's a gem about WWII ski troops in the 10th MTN Division.:

 
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Jun 05 | Grand Canyon | Rim (Kaibab Trail) to Phantom Ranch to Rim (Bright Angel Trail) | 6:56 moving time | 29km | 1,429m el gain| HR avg 117

Original plan was R2R but closures and no water on north side caused us to change plans

Still a good day out…
 
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Jun 05 | Grand Canyon | Rim (Kaibab Trail) to Phantom Ranch to Rim (Bright Angel Trail) | 6:56 moving time | 29km | 1,429m el gain| HR avg 117

Original plan was R2R but closures and no water on north side caused us to change plans

Still a good day out…
That's a solid time. Love the Grand Canyon, I organize a big death march in and out of it every year with a core group of guys.
 
***This just in from the ‘So, you think you’re fit department’***

Jack Kuenzle just climbed from base camp to the summit of Denali and back again in only 10 hours and 14 minutes, which beats the existing fastest known time (FKT) by well over an hour. Kuenzle is a coach with Evoke Endurance, which was founded by Scott Johnson. (Scott was one of the founders of Uphill Athlete)
 
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Jun 05 | Grand Canyon | Rim (Kaibab Trail) to Phantom Ranch to Rim (Bright Angel Trail) | 6:56 moving time | 29km | 1,429m el gain| HR avg 117

Original plan was R2R but closures and no water on north side caused us to change plans

Still a good day out…
Gorgeous pics!
Kaibab is a tough trail.
I like that it’s not as busy as Bright Angel.
And no mule trains.
Hate the lack of water.
 
Gorgeous pics!
Kaibab is a tough trail.
I like that it’s not as busy as Bright Angel.
And no mule trains.
Hate the lack of water.
it’s only ‘tough’ because the water situation… other than that it’s pretty sweet, and fast. knowing what I know now, and running sections, i’m confident I could shave an easy hour off my time…
 
I was hiking up South Kaibab in the afternoon coming back from a peak bagging trip near Phantom Ranch a few years ago. Noticed a trail runner below me that was moving fast and gaining ground on us quickly. Ended up being Jim Walmsley out on a training run. I've never, ever seen anyone run uphill that fast. Looked up his Strava for that day when I got back to the hotel and he had been doing 7-8 minute miles uphill on SK the whole way up.
 
I was hiking up South Kaibab in the afternoon coming back from a peak bagging trip near Phantom Ranch a few years ago. Noticed a trail runner below me that was moving fast and gaining ground on us quickly. Ended up being Jim Walmsley out on a training run. I've never, ever seen anyone run uphill that fast. Looked up his Strava for that day when I got back to the hotel and he had been doing 7-8 minute miles uphill on SK the whole way up.
That's an impressive aerobic base. Wonder if he stayed in Zone 2 the whole time.
 
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