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Other/Mixed Mountain Strong

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
An often overlooked aspect of mountain training is mental toughness, few are born with it, but all can learn it. Most of us live in plush societies that are abundant with physical comforts, which in turn, breeds mental weakness. Living, training, working and playing in the interior of Alaska has taught me that the mental toughness aspect of mountain fitness is as equally important as the physical preparation. It is something I have had to specifically train.

So my question is for those of you who train this, how do you do it?
 
Living, training, working and playing in the interior of Alaska
@Alaska80, this prompts me to ask you if you're familiar with the National Geographic channel television series called Life Below Zero. I am not much of a television watcher, often going for weeks without any, but we have this series DVR'ed and it's one of the only things I watch when I do watch TV.

Thanks.

-S-
 
An often overlooked aspect of mountain training is mental toughness, few are born with it, but all can learn it. Most of us live in plush societies that are abundant with physical comforts, which in turn, breeds mental weakness. Living, training, working and playing in the interior of Alaska has taught me that the mental toughness aspect of mountain fitness is as equally important as the physical preparation. It is something I have had to specifically train.

So my question is for those of you who train this, how do you do it?
Interesting thought. I agree 100% that (very) few are born with it. But I also disagree 100% that all can learn it. Some can. How many? Who knows, but certainly not all. This is akin to teaching motivation and desire. Sometimes yes... sometimes no...

I know people that have given up hard climbing and even cycling because they just couldn’t (or perhaps wouldn’t) learn the mental toughness aspect of it. (Either given up or plateaued early on...)

One could argue the BUDS and similar selection training teaches mental toughness; yet people drop like flies, because they can’t pick it up.

But to your question.... I have always considered my ‘doing’ to be my training for the most part. Almost 5 decades of doing hard as coffin nails stuff in the mountains and deserts (and all places in between).

That being said... at one time we would do so called ‘depletion days’ that were I guess as much mental toughness as anything else. These usually consisted of some combination of an early start followed by: 2+ hrs cycling, calisthenics workout 1, 5k run, climb at gym or crag for 4+ hrs, calisthenics workout 2, heavy ruck 1hr, run 5-10k. This was a full day. Usually fasted. Usually after a whiskey night.

I don’t know if this actually counted for anything or not. If it made us mentally tougher, or if we could do it because we already were mentally tough.

Also way back in the bad old days I would sometimes sleep out overnight in winter in the lightest of gear. What did this accomplish? I got cold and miserable. As one great alpinist once quipped... “why practice to get a crappy nights sleep, when you are going to have them regardless...”

This has been brought up before but environment probably plays a large part in mental toughness. And not just geographical. Most (but not all) of the hard men and women I know have either lived in harsh latitudes and/or in tough socioeconomic climates.

But it is an interesting topic. I will be curious what others have to add...
 
@Steve. Yes sir I am familiar with it. Of all the Alaska reality TV it is probably the most authentic, that and the Last Alaskans. They do stage some of the stuff to build up drama, but for the most part it does a good job of capturing what roadless living is like.
I live in a small town (600 people) about 110 miles southeast of Fairbanks, literally at the base of the Alaska Range, and love it.
 
Hello,

Interesting thought. I agree 100% that (very) few are born with it. But I also disagree 100% that all can learn it. Some can. How many? Who knows, but certainly not all. This is akin to teaching motivation and desire. Sometimes yes... sometimes no...
I agree with that. You just can not force someone to learn something, whether it is "physical" or "mental". IMHO, those who learn do so because they need it or want to simply get better 'for the sake of getting better'.

If we consider toughness as a result of a training, therefore as a "skill", then you have to identify the components which build it. This can be extremely difficult and close to impossible. Indeed, there is a great probability that you train something you do not need.

One could argue the BUDS and similar selection training teaches mental toughness; yet people drop like flies, because they can’t pick it up.
Hard selection training can be tricky to describe. You can find a lot of people clearly physically underprepared (or not specifically prepared) but who wanted to succeed so much, that they eventually succeeded. As Henry Ford said : "whether you think you can or you can't you are right". The y may have internal or external motivation.

As an example, UK SAS selection. The first guy who were selected during WW2 were not as prepared to endure the selection as guys today. However, the selection process and difficulty have remained the same. I bought a book dedicated to their physical training, written by a former operator. These current guys are just "monsters" in terms of physical capabilities. They are probably stronger, have more endurance, etc... but they do the same things than their ancestors

I have always considered my ‘doing’ to be my training for the most part. Almost 5 decades of doing hard as coffin nails stuff in the mountains and deserts (and all places in between).
+1to this. Nothing beats specificity.

I remember a Dan John's podcast where he said that in his prime, he did not do "conditioning". He just played. He just supplemented his game with weightlifting. The conditioning he has came only from the games.

In most cases, as long as you build experience, you are learning. Learning builds efficacy on the field. Learning "from the field", will IMHO be superior to a good looking theory. Additional training may help to progress faster, but nothing "more".

That being said... at one time we would do so called ‘depletion days’ that were I guess as much mental toughness as anything else. These usually consisted of some combination of an early start followed by: 2+ hrs cycling, calisthenics workout 1, 5k run, climb at gym or crag for 4+ hrs, calisthenics workout 2, heavy ruck 1hr, run 5-10k. This was a full day. Usually fasted. Usually after a whiskey night.
This is your Hell Week version ! ;)

Also way back in the bad old days I would sometimes sleep out overnight in winter in the lightest of gear. What did this accomplish? I got cold and miserable. As one great alpinist once quipped... “why practice to get a crappy nights sleep, when you are going to have them regardless...”
This can be considered as "progressive stress inoculation". You progressively tell your body and mind that it can endure something which is not "comfortable" or at least, which is not "normal". That way, when you are not in training anymore, your body already knows what is happening. This kind of strategy prevents the body to be "surprised".

This has been brought up before but environment probably plays a large part in mental toughness. And not just geographical. Most (but not all) of the hard men and women I know have either lived in harsh latitudes and/or in tough socioeconomic climates.
Again, +1 to this.

My grand-parents lived during WW2. At the end of it, and after obviously, they had this "positivity" thing. They always saw the positive side in everything. They also had this determination, this will to get what they want.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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There is little doubt in my mind that living through hardship can certainly build a high level of mental toughness. Speaking of WWII... my old man fought in Europe during the war as a part of the Royal Canadian Engineers. Prior to that he lived through the Great Depression on a farm in rural Saskatchewan (maybe better off than many). That old goat was as tough as nails both physically and mentally. I attribute much of his ‘anti-fragility’ to these two environments...

I don’t think he looked at things or thought about things in terms of positive or negative however. He wouldn’t have used terms such as optimist or pessimist, nor would they describe him. He just lived his life and did what needed to be done. Stoic may be a better term.
 
Interesting thought. I agree 100% that (very) few are born with it. But I also disagree 100% that all can learn it. Some can. How many? Who knows, but certainly not all. This is akin to teaching motivation and desire. Sometimes yes... sometimes no...

I know people that have given up hard climbing and even cycling because they just couldn’t (or perhaps wouldn’t) learn the mental toughness aspect of it. (Either given up or plateaued early on...)

One could argue the BUDS and similar selection training teaches mental toughness; yet people drop like flies, because they can’t pick it up.

But to your question.... I have always considered my ‘doing’ to be my training for the most part. Almost 5 decades of doing hard as coffin nails stuff in the mountains and deserts (and all places in between).

That being said... at one time we would do so called ‘depletion days’ that were I guess as much mental toughness as anything else. These usually consisted of some combination of an early start followed by: 2+ hrs cycling, calisthenics workout 1, 5k run, climb at gym or crag for 4+ hrs, calisthenics workout 2, heavy ruck 1hr, run 5-10k. This was a full day. Usually fasted. Usually after a whiskey night.

I don’t know if this actually counted for anything or not. If it made us mentally tougher, or if we could do it because we already were mentally tough.

Also way back in the bad old days I would sometimes sleep out overnight in winter in the lightest of gear. What did this accomplish? I got cold and miserable. As one great alpinist once quipped... “why practice to get a crappy nights sleep, when you are going to have them regardless...”

This has been brought up before but environment probably plays a large part in mental toughness. And not just geographical. Most (but not all) of the hard men and women I know have either lived in harsh latitudes and/or in tough socioeconomic climates.

But it is an interesting topic. I will be curious what others have to add...
My dealing with younger military peeps lends well to the belief that most can learn toughness, if they want to learn it. More often than not the younger generation tends to roll over. This of course changes when you get to Spec War and other difficult jobs, however, just like with society, the percentage that have the ability to over come obstacles and flourish is less than 1%. Some people have just the ability to overcome obstacles, whether it is from past life experiences or not, and some are just hard headed enough not to quit. Honestly, I fall into this group and I feel a decent amount of people on this site do as a large percentage of us on here have been here for years.

The idea of "depletion days" is something that I agree with and do from time to time myself As I also under-dress on colder days. Not to the point of hyping out, just to give my body a reminder what real cold is.

Being from northern New England originally I can attest to what it's like to grow up in a harsh environment, I am not sure how much it helps me now that I live in the mid-Atlantic but I doubt it has hurt me.
 
@offwidth, @pet'
Great comments guys.


There is little doubt in my mind that living through hardship can certainly build a high level of mental toughness.

I would say that living through hardship is the best mental toughness training. Sadly though some "live" through it and are scarred or irrep ably damaged.

I also would go so far as to saying mental toughness is more important than physical fitness. Yes, there has to be a minimum physical ability, but I have seen many physical specimen's mentally break in not-so-trying circumstances. On the flip side I have been outperformed by some people who were in worse physical condition than me, but simply had a better mental attitude. The mind wields so much power over our bodies and performance.
 
Sadly though some "live" through it and are scarred or irrep ably damaged.
Agreed... I would additionally say that some incredibly mentally tough people I know are also scarred from the very thing that made them so tough.

I also have experienced mental toughness compensating for physical fitness. I have one climbing partner in particular who has never been particularly physically fit; yet his fortitude and inner strength more than make up for shortcomings elsewhere.
 
So my question is for those of you who train this, how do you do it?
Sometimes I find it incidental to training, for instance this morning my program (Jim Wendler's 'Krypteia variation of 5/3/1 done twice a week) consisted of this:

Press:

1x5 @ 77 lbs
1x5 @ 88 lbs
1x5 @ 100 lbs
5x5 @ 77 lbs

Between each set I did the following: Odd numbered sets I did dumbbell squats for a set of 10 @ 85 lbs, and even numbered sets was dumbbell stiff leg deadlifts, 10 @ 85 lbs. Between each set I waited till my heart rate was down to 123 BPM (-20 BPM from my max aerobic threshold heartrate of 143 BPM per Maffetone) before starting again.

I had a minor headache (one that's been bugging me since yesterday from some mild dehydration I dealt with) pop up at abut halfway through the work and I decided I was going to gut through it.

On another note, improving aerobic fitness has been helpful in reducing the time I'm gasping like a landed fish between sets.

Most (but not all) of the hard men and women I know have either lived in harsh latitudes and/or in tough socioeconomic climates.

Harsh latitudes needn't be mountains and deserts nor the Arctic.

The tropics can be incredibly unforgiving an environment too. Hot weather, ample rainfall (which if you don't have good shelter you've got issues), not to mention all manner of poisonous and/or venomous animal life (snakes, scorpions, spiders).

My grandfather, who worked his way through college in the Philippines by spending his summers in the logging industry, was a hard man forged in the climate above. God rest his soul.
 
Relevant obituary to the current topic of mental toughness...

December 07 2020. Doug Scott dies at the age of 79.

One of the most well rounded and successful high altitude mountaineers of all time.

I had the pleasure of meeting him in Vancouver many years ago.

First Brit to summit Everest (new route)
Third ascent on Kanchenjunga (new route)
First ascent of Changabang
A small list of other ascents include:
  • Salathe Wall El Cap
  • Denali South Face
  • Nuptse
  • Shiviling
  • Mt Asgard (Baffin Island)
  • Nanga Parabat
Doug fell on an attempt of the Ogre (Pakistan Karakoram) in 1977. He suffered 2 broken legs in the fall high on the route. Rappelling and crawling in bad weather it took him 7 days to descend to base camp along with Chris Bonnington (who was also injured)

It was all in a days work for this guy...
B246E41A-BECF-45E5-99C6-EBF416716495.jpeg
Iconic photo of Doug Scott

Look up mentally tough in the dictionary and you will see this photo...
 
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December 07 2020. Doug Scott dies at the age of 79.

One of the most well rounded and successful high altitude mountaineers of all time.
Damn! Impressive achievement, and strangely enough he died the same day as Chuck Yeager, WW2 Fighter Ace and influential test pilot.

Mark Twight (Founder of Gym Jones) is another source I've been reading about when it comes to metal toughness of late. I've been meaning to dust off my paperback copy of Kiss or Kill: Confessions of a Serial Climber of late. This thread's inspiring me to do so since I've got a long flight next week to visit my family in Florida.

It'll be interesting since my physical training while on vacation (Kettlebells, easy runs, pool swims, and a few drop in jiujitsu classes) will be largely outdoors (minus the pool work and jiujitsu classes) and it's getting to the 40s-50s at the lows. Coming from Hawaii where it's 75-80F most of the time will mean some (relatively) cold weather physical training sessions in the mornings whilst visiting my parents. I'll keep the mental fitness side of this thread in mind as I've largely de-acclimated from dealing with cold temperatures.
 
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I have mixed opinions of Mark Twight, but that does not negate his accomplishments, or his writing. He is an excellent writer. "Twitching with Twight", is a common reminder for me. Even at the age of 54.
 
Damn! Impressive achievement, and strangely enough he died the same day as Chuck Yeager, WW2 Fighter Ace and influential test pilot.

Mark Twight (Founder of Gym Jones) is another source I've been reading about when it comes to metal toughness of late. I've been meaning to dust off my paperback copy of Kiss or Kill: Confessions of a Serial Climber of late. This thread's inspiring me to do so since I've got a long flight next week to visit my family in Florida.

It'll be interesting since my physical training while on vacation (Kettlebells, easy runs, pool swims, and a few drop in jiujitsu classes) will be largely outdoors (minus the pool work and jiujitsu classes) and it's getting to the 40s-50s at the lows. Coming from Hawaii where it's 75-80F most of the time will mean some (relatively) cold weather physical training sessions in the mornings whilst visiting my parents. I'll keep the mental fitness side of this thread in mind as I've largely de-acclimated from dealing with cold temperatures.
Hamish MacInnes famous Scottish hard man also died this week.
 
I have mixed opinions of Mark Twight, but that does not negate his accomplishments, or his writing. He is an excellent writer. "Twitching with Twight", is a common reminder for me. Even at the age of 54.
Well Mark’s persona in his early years was certainly seen as controversial to some people. (He has ‘mellowed’ since then). That being said his accomplishments in climbing and training for climbing don’t need defending and speak for themselves.
 
I hear they are making a documentary about Twight, which i would love to see. I do not know Mark, but he has a podcast that I used to listen to. I shouldn't have mentioned my personal opinion. It has nothing to do with his youth, or his accomplishments.
I strongly recommend anyone interested in Alpinism read Kiss or Kill. I have also read Extreme Alpinism, but I have never had aspirations to be an alpinist. There is interesting stuff there.
 
I hear they are making a documentary about Twight, which i would love to see. I do not know Mark, but he has a podcast that I used to listen to. I shouldn't have mentioned my personal opinion. It has nothing to do with his youth, or his accomplishments.
I strongly recommend anyone interested in Alpinism read Kiss or Kill. I have also read Extreme Alpinism, but I have never had aspirations to be an alpinist. There is interesting stuff there.
I hadn’t heard about the documentary. That would be interesting.
Indeed... Kiss or Kill, and Extreme Alpinism are good reads. (Although some of the training advice in the later is a bit outmoded now... and has been supplanted by TFTNA which is a logical progression from Marks work)
 
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