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Old Forum My new favorite lift

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Rif

Rif

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Elite Certified Instructor
The Half Snatch. That's it's proper name but I heard it originally I think as the "health" snatch and I think that fits. Just like their is a "health" deadlift variation for us older guys I think this variation of the HS snatch is perfect for me.

It's got everything; the snatch, a negative press and a rack position,all in one lift. Plus , the eccentric forces are much reduced , and, with that, most of any concern I have for my bakc being overloaded.

This is the first time doing this and I think it has legs for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GDEfGCwzTlc
 
Mark,

   In the early days of GS, the half snatch was the method of choice.  There are old Soviet posters and handbooks which depict snatch technique, and they use the half snatch.  When the 10 minute rule was implemented, competitors who were advanced in the half snatch started doing full snatches to compress the reps and get more in the time limit.  It seems that early on, they found the half snatch to be more intuitive.  The full snatch was an advanced technique developed by top lifters (kind of like the full squat snatch in oly lifting) to get better scores.  I don't often snatch anymore, but when I do, its the half snatch.  For most people, the half snatch is all you need for the benefits of snatching.  I don't lower mine like a press negative- I drop it like in the jerk.
 
I like it. Just did a light practice with it. At first my body got confused about whether I was doing snatches or C&P, but I got it down.
 
Steve

I was aware of that but thanks for the confirmation and detail. I don't know if you can tell from the video but I didn't quite 'negative press' it. somewhere in between that and letting it drop which I think is where I want to be.

A little eccentric work but not too much. and yes, i feel like I can get the benefit of the snatch itself in this manner.

It will be interesting to see how this develops

 
 
It's very nice. I rarely do anything with the kb aside from swings, but I must say next time snatches are on the menu I'll be using this variety. Once I got it down it was a lot more comfortable for me than the regular snatch. Plus I don't have to worry as much about my hands looking like raw hamburger, and feeling twice as bad.
 
Kenny- the hands are another benefit.  The half snatch is a great way to get more reps in per side as well, because you can rest in the rack. 

Pavel puts a lot of emphasis on the overspeed eccentric, and for good reason.  There are a lot of benefits to catching a fast-moving weight at the bottom.  The half snatch does not provide this, but there are plenty of good reasons to do it.
 
I asked you on your blog Rif but is this similar to the DBL Snatch(SFG style) but with only one bell? IE Snatch to the top but then drop to the rack before the hike pass? ;)
 
Rif - glad these work for you. I can see why. Applying the similar rationale as MilkManX said with double KB snatch.

I still can't wrap my mind around the idea of a "half snatch."

To me, that'd be a high pull, since technically the snatch is from floor to overhead lockout.

It's all semantics I guess...
 
Geoff

Yes it is basically semantics, that's why I'm calling it the Health Snatch.Plus this will help me when I start doing double health snatches :)

 
 
Geoff: "To me, that’d be a high pull, since technically the snatch is from floor to overhead lockout."  It's my understanding that this was simply "the snatch", but then as the full drop snatch came into vogue, the need arose to differentiate.  But yes, as you say, the snatch is the upward motion, not the downward one.
 
Steve, it's interesting to me that this iteration was the original  contest version of the snatch. the need to increase performance levels always leads to interesting technique variations in all sports. Not necessarily better but increased :)
 
Mark, I think it changes the definition of "basic".  When an advanced technique becomes standardized, then people start to learn it and practice it as if it were "the way" to do the technique.  I learned the snatch from Pavel's books.  I never questioned it.  Then I discovered the half snatch, and thought it made more sense- all the benefits of the big pull, but you could moderate your speed enough to breathe a little and keep moving.  When people ask me to show them kettlebells, I teach the half snatch.  Unless they are trying to ace the SSST or compete in GS, the half snatch is probably a better, safer lift for most people. 

My priority is long cycle, and I'm trying to avoid shiny things, but sometime I'd like to test a theory- to step back into the shoes of the early GS competitors, and build up some serious numbers and time in the 24k half snatch, then test it in the modern competition format (full drop, 10m, 1 hand switch). I'll bet that someone who trained like this could develop great strength and stamina, and could put up some impressive numbers in the snatch.  Same thing for the SSST.  A man who can half snatch for 30 minutes at 16 rpm or faster, can probably put up 20rpm for 10 minutes.
 
Steve

Couldn't agree with you more on all counts.And I like your idea of "stepping back into the shoes of the early gs competitors", very cool. People tend to forget that the current "rules" and techniques of ANY sport are just man made  and HAVE change, usually many times, over the years.

There is truly NO one RIGHT way. Just the 'right way' of the moment. I saw this over and over in both gymnastics and powerlifting. For instance, in powerlifting in the early days one had to pause the squat until the head judge gave and "up" signal!
That must have made for some fun, as well as really skewing the numbers .

Rules are always just man made ideas about what is correct and tend to change with times, fashions and trends.The half( health) snatch fits many of the most basic ideas  of mine about what  would constitute the best overall total body exercise( which would include safety) as a parameter.
 
Also in your sport, GS , just think what the numbers would be in Short Cycle Jerk, for instance, if they didn't let one rest in the rack position. Or you could only rest for 2 seconds. Just a rule change which the governing body could institute tomorrow but would forever change the sport and people's idea of what good numbers or what techniques are 'real' and valid. :)
 
And, to back it up further, the GS developments are based on weightlifting. The "snatch" is actually what weightlifters called a "swing", and the "jerk" is what weightlifters would call a push-press.

The kettlebell swing (all kinds) are partial swings.

I was watching a video describing a difference between two gymnastics moves, and he was using terms I did not use, and in the comments, he stated that there were different terms for what he was demonstrating.

In weightlifting, the "press" used to be very strict. One had to lift at the judges command as at the judge's speed. It eventually become so formless, it was judged impossible to judge, and dropped from competition.

Competition does this to lifting...but it shouldn't do it for training. Do what works...and only worry about competition if one is competing.
 
Nice.

With a heavier bell, this has always been my preferred version of the snatch
Just like the power swing is my preferred version of the swing

With a really heavy bell, both save my grip, and protect my back.

( Damn… I must be old )


If I want to go overspeed I just grab my 16kg
 
Thanks Mark for this new (to me) health snatch.  I loved your hard style kettlebell swing DVD, and the over speed emphasis.  But when I do snatches, over speed with a light weight still causes me shoulder pain. I think my shoulder isn't packed on the down swing, but with the health snatch, it is still packed.  Now I can snatch again, and go heavier. 

Thank you,  Al
 
Herr: "The “snatch” is actually what weightlifters called a “swing”, and the “jerk” is what weightlifters would call a push-press."  A push press would differ from the jerk in that in the PP, the knees are not re-bent after the initial drive, and in the jerk, there is a second dip.  The kettlebell jerk would be more like  a power jerk in weightlifting, in which the lifter does not split the feet fore and aft, or drop in to a full overhead squat.

Push press and jerk are two different lifts.
 
Al

 

you are most welcome and glad you like the Mastering DVD. Overspeed work is great but just one aspect of the swing/snatch.I am just getting into this version of the snatch but I immediately liked the way it felt; stronger, more control and more power on the 'snatch' section as well.

I realized that if one " missed" their shoulder on the descent, voila! you have the basis of the gs descent, always keeping the bell as close as possible over the base of support. much easier and still plenty challenging.
 
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