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Old Forum Need help improving my speed-endurance/running time.

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Harry Westgate

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Certified Instructor
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some advice on how to improve my running speed over longer distances, specifically, I'm wanting to improve the time it takes me to run three miles. I can currently do three miles in just over 22 mins, and I'm looking to get that down to about 18 mins.

For reference, I'm currently doing the ROP as written, plus ladders of weighted pistol squats on variety days, and running 3-4 days per week on variety days and 'off' days. I just figured there must be something a bit more technical I can do in terms of running as opposed to simply going all out for three miles 3-4 times per week.

Any suggestions would be massively appreciated!
 
Pose running combined with weightlifting did really good to my running and endurance. Unfortunately i injured my right tfl because i was pushing my self beyond my limits.
 
Harry-

Step one would be to develop your aerobic base a bit more. S&S will help and some longer runs will also help. Here's something to try, run for 30 minutes with nasal breathing only and see what you can do. This is a VERY simple way to stay aerobic without tapping to your glycolytic system and burning out prematurely. The key is to maintain a tempo where your body can handle the metabolic waste in a fashion that doesn't allow your blood to become too acidic.


I won't dive into too much detail but a template that wavers the load could be helpful.

Here's a running template to try:

Day #1 Heavy day

1/4 mile run pretty darn fast- rest to a HR of 135 ( I'm guessing ) and do some repeats. Start with 3-4 reps and see how you feel. This would be like a " speed " day so your goal is to replicate the performance each time.

Day #2 light day

30 min run nasal breathing only

Day #3

Run 1 mile at a good clip- fast but not terrible

Rest 6-8 minutes

repeat x3.


Again- its a very simple template to follow. Just something to consider. I have used a similar format with the pro soccer players I trained and they did well.
 
As Mike said, you need a long,steady run. Also going all out, as you say, 3/4 days a week on off days whilst doing rop is probably a bit much.
Rop and running go well but keep the runs for the time being aerobic and easy. Going from 22 minutes to 18 is a big jump,doable but big. How is your running form?
Mike's template is a good one but still a lot with rop. Think you need to either keep rop and run one long run once a week or if you want the running focus with Mike's suggestion swap to S&S or a similar easy strength protocol.
 
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys, Mike, I will definitely take note of what you've said there!

Alistair, thanks for the advice, so would you say my best bet in keeping with the ROP would be to do just the one 30min nasal breathing run per week? Would the conditioning from the swings/snatches combined with that run likely do my running time some good?

Oh, and as for my running form... I've never really been taught 'how to run' per se, but having read briefly on proper posture, etc. I'm pretty sure it's okay.
 
Alistair, thanks for the advice, so would you say my best bet in keeping with the ROP would be to do just the one 30min nasal breathing run per week? Would the conditioning from the swings/snatches combined with that run likely do my running time some good?

You need to target those muscles that will do your running time good. Your core, your legs. Maybe even specific exercises for your calves. And remember, in order to be faster, you need to run fast. So in those speed days Mike was talking about, always finish fast.
 
Harry, guess it all comes down to you and your current fitness levels. Clearly you are in good shape...22 minute 3 mile run. Opinions will differ, obviously, and by the way I'm just a bloke, not a trainer. In rop - which depending on your bell and where you are in the ladder and rep scheme is pretty tough going - the 2 off days are just that. I suppose, dependent on you, how you feel, where you are with the programme, a long, slow steady run may not interfere too much on an off day. Maybe it will but punishing runs are a no no. Pavel may answer that for you. I take an off day as an off day. It is there for a reason. The variety days: running is fine but not gut busting flat out sessions. As you say, swings and snatches are already in the programme.
Doing too much is just doing too much. For endurance, efficient running form and efficient energy delivery is the aim. Without that, adding speed will only burn you out. The odd thing is this: doing the rop with aerobic efficiency aims on variety days will a) improve your strength with rop and b) provide you with better efficiency and strength at running distance which in turn will make you potentially faster. Doing glycolytic runs and rop may well improve your speed at first but it will only be temporary, expose you to injury and reduce or limit potential strength aims with rop. The jump between 22 to 18 minutes in a 3 mile run is pretty big and will take a bit of time. The better your aerobic system is, the better the chance you will have to build a sufficient base to take the times down when you introduce some speed and switch the focus.

But if it is speed you want now ....and your focus is running not necessarily the rop, then maybe better to put effort into your running but back off the strength training. S&S fits very nicely and won't burn you out. Your heavy rop day could be your heavy/fast/speed development run day with off days factored in. 2/3 days S&S, couple days easy runs. I clearly can't speak for you but if it was me wishing for a speed goal I wouldn't do rop as I know it would be too much, for me. I'm more cautious now, you may have youth and vigour on your side! 5 years ago I would do everything in one day.....and get injured and not improve at anything really other than just doing more, eating and working out novel ways to reduce swollen joints.

I know it is tempting to cram everything in but really just backing off a bit, recovering better, letting your systems adapt will improve your performance. Good luck.
 
Innunguaq, as for working the muscles which will do my running good, I feel I'm doing alright in that regard for now, as I'm obviously doing swings and snatches, then on my variety days I do ladders of pistols and hanging leg raises for legs and core/abs, in the same way as the C&P/pull-ups written out in ETK (I actually feel that I've got a pretty solid all-around strength and conditioning plan going on which isn't tiring me out too much for other stuff, covering a press, an upper body pull, abs, legs, hinge, and high intensity conditioning.

And Alistair, in all honesty the ROP is my priority for now, it's just that having timed my three miler the other day when I had some free time, I kinda wanted to be faster and as such I was a bit disappointed in my speed, so thought I'd make running a kind of secondary goal. I think for now with a view to take it easy initially (as you said, I do kinda have youth and enthusiasm, being only 19), and add in one or two 30min nasal breathing runs per week, then maybe see about including more of what Mike suggested, with heavier running and so on.

Thanks for the advice guys :)
 
Harry, I've been using the FIRST program from Furman Universtiy to get ready for my first half-marathon. I incorporate KB strength days and KB met-cons for my off run days. Their run programming is very detailed and they have plans from 5k to marathon. The plans alone are worth the price of the book, Run Less Run Faster. Also, Brian McKenzie of CrossFit Endurance has a book, Unbreakable Runner, that breaks down running technique, with Pose running principles. Its worth a read. I'm not crazy about the crossfit wod's, which is where the kb strength and conditioning comes in.
 
Brad, do you think the Run Less Run Faster plans (that is, the shorter ones around 5k - I've currently got NO plans to run as far as a marathon any time soon) could be used alongside the Rite of Passage?
 
Yes, Harry I do. Its a 3 runs a week program that is focused on speed work with one longer run a week. My long runs are going to be different because of the distance I'm training for, but the speed work and tempo/interval runs are similar. That leaves a lot of time available to incorporate strength work. I do a 10 day cycle so I can incorporate kb conditioning work which includes Viking Warrior, Art of Strength Newport and Providence, and some double kb presses and squats. My legs are always fresh because I only run every other day. And, by the way, S&S is a perfect compliment to a running program. It makes you unbelievably resilient. There's no reason ROP wouldn't work too. And the speed program works. I've taken almost two minutes off my 5k time since April (I'm 53 and not nearly as fast as you but I'm pretty pleased with my age group results)!
 
Mike, Alistair, others... a couple of questions:

- has anyone had success in using one long run per week in the context of heavy glycolytic work to develop the aerobic system, long term?

- related to the above, how are you measuring this?

- " I have used a similar format with the pro soccer players I trained and they did well."

What does this mean? What metrics did you use to show aerobic system improvement? Did they do nothing else? When? Off season, pre season, etc.

Thanks.
 
Al, I used to run a lot, and rarely tried to mix longer aerobic conditioning with speed work. Most people I knew would spend 4-6 months building a base, on "slower" (relatively) runs, then gradually sharpen into speed phase anywhere from 4-8 weeks before racing. During the base phase, I'd do some striders once a week, but keep them very short (100m max), and concentrate on form more than power/speed. Goal in these was to keep the hips capable of long strides, not to move fast. Otherwise, all the slower running could affect your gait. In sharpening period, reduce the length or frequency of long runs, such as 50% distance, or every other week, instead of weekly, and gradually add in speed work/intervals.

People I knew who tried to mix them usually got faster and were really happy for a couple months, then got sore or burnt out. For the original poster here, I wasn't sure whether he just wants a faster time for a particular PFT or something, or whether he really wants a faster time permanently. Very different things. Ultimately, no substitute for a good pump and lots of miles.
 
Al - I'll provide you with my data I'm collecting at the moment, hr with swings, maf tests and increasing time lsd runs. I'm only intending to run upto max 1 hour, once a week. Doing no other glycolytic runs/activity other than continuous swings in S&S as written, every 2 weeks. Towards the end game of S&S, it'll be ready when it is ready!

Think I've said before to you, I've no data other than my previous timed run events but I ran a maffetone run experiment in a way but just didn't realise what it was. When I transitioned my running form to a more natural gait I did increasing time lsd but my focus was on developing form, not necessarily aerobic function, although it had the same outcome. I ran slowly, very slowly. Also, previous sugar burner and switched to fat burning at the same time. A lot of variables, then did some interval/speed work prior to a marathon. Did no more than a 2 hour run. No way would I have ran a marathon with previous messy form, poor energy levels, overweight and weaker.....so what was the main change? Who knows.

So, right now.....my diet is what it is, sorted. I don't run or train fasted in a strict sense but don't have any or few carbs in the day, post training only. I'm stronger. Better runner generally. Only doing S&S with a hr cap and only doing lsd as a hr run and nasal breathing and only using the 32. Logging all the times......I'll show you them all when done!!
 
Brad, thanks for your advice on the Run Less Run Faster program, I've just ordered it and should have it tomorrow :D hopefully my running speed and resilience should all come together nicely!

And Al, I've personally never only ran once per week consistently, as I've always tended to go for 3ish mile runs a couple of times a week (3/4 weekly on average), just because I enjoy it more than anything. Sorry I can't be of more help :/.
 
Al-

When I've worked with professional soccer players in the past, it was off-season/pre season. We were prepping them for conditioning tests administered by the teams. The normal tests were a 2 mile timed run ( modified Cooper used in the soccer world ) and the yo-yo beep test. All of my athletes scored higher than previous years after training with us. Those are the only metrics I had, which to me, is progress.

This 6-8 week protocol was a short term plan to get them ready for testing.

As far as long term aerobic development goes, I never worked with these athletes all year round so I do not have any data about long term development.
 
All,

Thanks for the responses.

Mike... It's not your choice assessment, I know, but I remain skeptical of Cooper-type run field tests, in isolation. I've seen far too many folks score high on these who have crappy aerobic capacity. Thanks.
 
Al- absolutely- you can do well on the cooper but trash your body by relying on mental toughness and grit in the process. Trust me, the guys were rubbish after.

Its the difference between a competition scenario and long term development. As a coach, we need to do whatever we can to get our athletes to perform in the time we have given
 
Al, you might find the research done by the Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training an interesting read. I'm far from an expert, but I find it compelling, if for no better reason than warding off injuries. The long runs are stiil long... and hard... but I can do them while keeping my overall mileage comparatively low, as opposed to the 'trail of miles' Lydiard system that Tom talked about above. And I actually look forward to my weekend long run, instead of dreading it. The FIRST cross training isn't all it could be though; I don't think the researchers ever tried 40 minutes of VWC. If I was trying for an Olympic qualifying time I might feel differently. McKenzie cites some interesting research as well about strength training to ward off injury. It really is a running program and he's hooked his wagon to CrossFit for reasons I don't completely understand. Andrew Read is coming out with a new running book soon. I'm interested in what he has to say. An SFG Endurance program? I'd be all about that.
 
Harry, don't think too much about the FIRST cross training section. I don't follow it at all. That what the KB is for. I try to get 3-4 KB session in a week, going on my off run days. And I try to do get ups every morning before I go to work. Let us know what you think of it in a few weeks. The first time I did the sprint key run I almost threw up...
 
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