ROUGHRIDER13
Level 1 Valued Member
What would a 10 workout cycle for a 130x5RM look like? Preferably using the "structured wave cycle" or "step cycle" guidelines. I've tried all sorts of variations and can't make one that seems sensible.
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Barbell Need Help Making a PTP Cycle
- Thread starter ROUGHRIDER13
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Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Not sure why this should be a problem. What is "sensible" to you? A 10 workout cycle seems pretty arbitrary. Why did you pick that number and how important is it that the cycle be exactly 10 workouts?
Personally, I am very partial to structured wave cycles. I like the rhythm of light, medium and challenging sessions. You don't spend a long time ramping up with a lot of consecutive very light sessions at the beginning, and you don't get into a death march of consecutive heavy sessions at the end. A few alternatives (in the range of 12-16 sessions) might be:
100/105/110/115
105/110/115/120
110/115/120/125
115/120/125/130
90/100/110/120
95/105/115/125
100/110/120/130
90/100/110
95/105/115
100/110/120
105/115/125
110/120/130
As you can see, the jumps between sessions in a wave don't have to equal the jumps between the start of each wave. If you use unequal jumps, I think it makes a lot more sense to use bigger jumps between sessions and smaller jumps between waves.
Unless you have specific powerlifting ambitions, I would also recommend a mentality of keeping it on the easy side as much as possible. As Dan John often advises, don't focus on your max so much, but try to nudge up 80% of your max. This means that when you get to a hard weight for 5, close to a 5RM, don't necessarily continue to add weight and taper the reps. Back cycle and see if you can nudge up that hard set of 5. If you want to test yourself, try to set a PR without maxing (a new best that you HAVE lifted, but not necessarily the best you COULD have lifted). True max efforts take a lot out of you, and can make it harder to sustain progress and avoid plateaus.
Hope this helps.
Personally, I am very partial to structured wave cycles. I like the rhythm of light, medium and challenging sessions. You don't spend a long time ramping up with a lot of consecutive very light sessions at the beginning, and you don't get into a death march of consecutive heavy sessions at the end. A few alternatives (in the range of 12-16 sessions) might be:
100/105/110/115
105/110/115/120
110/115/120/125
115/120/125/130
90/100/110/120
95/105/115/125
100/110/120/130
90/100/110
95/105/115
100/110/120
105/115/125
110/120/130
As you can see, the jumps between sessions in a wave don't have to equal the jumps between the start of each wave. If you use unequal jumps, I think it makes a lot more sense to use bigger jumps between sessions and smaller jumps between waves.
Unless you have specific powerlifting ambitions, I would also recommend a mentality of keeping it on the easy side as much as possible. As Dan John often advises, don't focus on your max so much, but try to nudge up 80% of your max. This means that when you get to a hard weight for 5, close to a 5RM, don't necessarily continue to add weight and taper the reps. Back cycle and see if you can nudge up that hard set of 5. If you want to test yourself, try to set a PR without maxing (a new best that you HAVE lifted, but not necessarily the best you COULD have lifted). True max efforts take a lot out of you, and can make it harder to sustain progress and avoid plateaus.
Hope this helps.
Aaron
Level 4 Valued Member
Thanks for asking this question, Roughrider. I actually came here today with a similar question so I'll just add mine here.
Steve, thanks for the reply on the wave...I didn't quite get it while reading the book, but seeing you break it down I may go with this for my next cycle.
My similar question is: how much should we be altering the max amount days between cycles? In the book all of the examples are set at 5#'s heavier in the proceeding cycle. For deads would it be more appropriate to try for 15#'s between maxes of cycles if we can finish 1 X 5 in the previous.
Thx all.
Steve, thanks for the reply on the wave...I didn't quite get it while reading the book, but seeing you break it down I may go with this for my next cycle.
My similar question is: how much should we be altering the max amount days between cycles? In the book all of the examples are set at 5#'s heavier in the proceeding cycle. For deads would it be more appropriate to try for 15#'s between maxes of cycles if we can finish 1 X 5 in the previous.
Thx all.
Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Like most things, it depends -- on your experience and current weights (5lbs is a higher percentage of a lower max), the length of your cycle, how much of a struggle was the end of the previous cycle, etc.
Keep in mind that you can keep cycles flexible and back cycle or repeat sessions (like a mini step cycle within a wave cycle) at any point if things get harder than expected. Or if things go very easy, you can extend cycles further than planned before back cycling. So a target for the end of a cycle serves a purpose for backward planning, but isn't necessarily a definite end point.
Keep in mind that you can keep cycles flexible and back cycle or repeat sessions (like a mini step cycle within a wave cycle) at any point if things get harder than expected. Or if things go very easy, you can extend cycles further than planned before back cycling. So a target for the end of a cycle serves a purpose for backward planning, but isn't necessarily a definite end point.
Aaron
Level 4 Valued Member
Like most things, it depends -- on your experience and current weights (5lbs is a higher percentage of a lower max), the length of your cycle, how much of a struggle was the end of the previous cycle, etc.
Keep in mind that you can keep cycles flexible and back cycle or repeat sessions (like a mini step cycle within a wave cycle) at any point if things get harder than expected. Or if things go very easy, you can extend cycles further than planned before back cycling. So a target for the end of a cycle serves a purpose for backward planning, but isn't necessarily a definite end point.
Okay, Steve, since reading your response, and because PTTP states that, "sometimes you can reach a higher peak if you take a step back," I've decided to do one.
Everyone please check this out and let me know if I should just do three weeks and start on the second line, or if I am being too ambitious in going after a 10# increase...it seems that I should be able to manage 10#'s in a month or maybe three weeks. I am not trying to f' up my Muay Thai training though, which is a few times a week. Yesterday and today's lifts were hard, but I completed using the 5/3/2 format.
I just finished a linear cycle for both deads and bench...Cycle ended with deads at 315 and bench at 180 (Don't laugh, I've been working overhead presses hard for years and have only just decided to start doing bench consistently since HS).
Anyway, can you tell me what you think about this cycle?
295/300/305/310
300/305/310/315
305/310/315/320
310/315/320/325
150/155/160/165
155/160/165/170
160/165/170/175
165/170/175/180
All insights are appreciated.
Thanks,
Aaron
Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Hey Aaron,
Once you get around 300lbs and up, I personally prefer bigger jumps between sessions in each wave (probably 10lbs where you are right now), although a 5lb jump from the start of one wave to the start of the next is okay, and may help you tune the length of the cycle where you want it. I just think your example is too compact between your starting and ending poundages. The sessions don't have enough variation.
If you use bigger jumps, you get a nice rhythm of easy medium and challenging sessions. You can start the cycle lighter without extending the overall length of the cycle, and the challenging sessions are easier to do and recover from because they are fewer and balanced by easier ones.
You say your previous cycle ended at 315, but you have 6 sessions in your proposed cycle at or above your previous max. I would plan to just make the last session a new PR (PR without maxing). Then back cycle again. You are also starting to get into poundages (I don't know how much you weigh, but usually around 2xBW) where the easy beginner's gains slow down and you have to plan a little more smartly and patiently to keep making steady progress.
Once you get around 300lbs and up, I personally prefer bigger jumps between sessions in each wave (probably 10lbs where you are right now), although a 5lb jump from the start of one wave to the start of the next is okay, and may help you tune the length of the cycle where you want it. I just think your example is too compact between your starting and ending poundages. The sessions don't have enough variation.
If you use bigger jumps, you get a nice rhythm of easy medium and challenging sessions. You can start the cycle lighter without extending the overall length of the cycle, and the challenging sessions are easier to do and recover from because they are fewer and balanced by easier ones.
You say your previous cycle ended at 315, but you have 6 sessions in your proposed cycle at or above your previous max. I would plan to just make the last session a new PR (PR without maxing). Then back cycle again. You are also starting to get into poundages (I don't know how much you weigh, but usually around 2xBW) where the easy beginner's gains slow down and you have to plan a little more smartly and patiently to keep making steady progress.
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Aaron
Level 4 Valued Member
Cool. I will take your advice about stretching out the jumps from 5 to 10 within the week and keep the jumps at 5 each heavy day.
That actually sounds like it may work for my training schedule better.
I appreciate your thoughts. I am excited to start my next cycle on Monday.
A
That actually sounds like it may work for my training schedule better.
I appreciate your thoughts. I am excited to start my next cycle on Monday.
A
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