Barbell Need Help Strength Training

[SamTX]

I may have misread your response, but you should consider hours of skill work per day on the court as your focus. If playing at the next level is your goal, you must put in the time training your skills. Those you are competing against for spots on squads will be putting in much more than thirty minute practice sessions and games on the weekend. But, like I said, I may have misunderstood your response to my initial question.l

 

[Steve W.]

my goal is have an 300 squat 400 deadlift and 200 bench by June

Is this REALLY your goal?

It took me quite to finally grow up and releazie I can get an scholarship with my height if I put the work in right now still have time in high to be able to do this.

Or is your goal to be better at basketball and earn a scholarship?

You've seen the commercial that starts "Eric always wanted to be a professional basketball player. Instead, he's the tallest guy in his office."
fuboTV TV Commercial, 'Don't Compromise: Tall'

There are lots of 6'6" guys in the stands watching other guys with scholarships play basketball.

have 30 min practice every thrusday and auu games on weekends, some little cardio. from march to june i will mainly focus on the strength training want to improve my lifts

I may have misread your response, but you should consider hours of skill work per day on the court as your focus. If playing at the next level is your goal, you must put in the time training your skills. Those you are competing against for spots on squads will be putting in much more than thirty minute practice sessions and games on the weekend.

This.

1. Play as much as possible with and against the best competition available.

2. Work on your individual skills in a focused, consistent and purposeful way. Concentrate on skills that will most apply to your role at the next level. Talk to coaches to get a realistic idea of what that might be. See if you can get a coach to work with you individually.

3. Do some basic minimalist strength training. Trap bar DL, Double KB front SQ, Push press (Double KB or barbell -- use lighter weights and focus on a quick dip and explosive leg drive to power the bar to lockout, not on maximum weight), KB swings or snatches, and a row or pullup is all you need. You can supplement with pushups and OS crawling (check out the Original Strength YouTube channel). You don't need much more than this. Programming for everything but the KB swings can be bone simple, just 2 or 3 of sets of 5 at a moderately challenging poundage, and add weight when it starts to feel easy.

The better player you are, the less your lifts matter. You are a basketball player, not a powerlifter. Kevin Durant could not do a single bench press rep with 185lbs at the NBA combine. More important is can you develop the skill of generating tension to root and hold position? Can you effectively use leverage to hold your position or move an opponent off of his? If your only skills are setting screens and rebounding, then size and strength become more central to your identity as a player, but no one ever got a basketball scholarship based on weight room numbers.

4. Build a big aerobic base (high volume of sustained low intensity locomotion). If you are playing a lot and doing a lot of on-court drills, you don't need any sort of intervals or high intensity cardio. It will be redundant and just eat up recovery capacity. But a big aerobic base will enable you to recover quicker from hard efforts on the court, enable you to still be able to go hard at the end of games, and enable you to recover better from practicing and training.

Ditto for plyometrics. A basketball player does not need plyometrics. You should be getting a ton of plyometric type activity just within practicing and competing in your sport. Extra plyometrics would just be redundant and eat up recovery capacity.

However, I love band shuffle drills for basketball. They teach quick feet, especially deceleration, and rooting. Here's a demo, but you can also do these forward and backward in addition to laterally. I wouldn't do these as cardio, but stay fresh and be as quick and explosive as possible (also, if you do these while tired, it's easy to get sloppy and let yourself get pulled off balance):


Good luck.

 

[vegpedlr]

Easy Strength

The whole point of the original program is for athletes to get stronger without interfering with sport specific training. If the the scholarship is to come from basketball, the gym is only a supplement. You’ll get recruited for your skills, not your gym numbers.

Quit worrying about the numbers and an arbitrary deadline, just get stronger with a basic program and work your skills until nobody can touch you.

 

[Bill Been]

1) Listen to IonRob and do what he said;
2) Abandon the notion that you can program for yourself. Do one of the programs that have been mentioned here, preferably Starting Strength because it’s by far the fastest and it includes a heavy emphasis on squats;
3) You don’t have “weak areas”. You’re just weak. No offense intended, there’s nothing unusual about that. See Suggestion #2 to fix it most expeditiously;
4) Continue to practice your sport-specific skills as you get much, much stronger;
5) Do not place weight goal limits on your strength development. For all you know, you’re a genetic Freak Beast who will run a Novice Linear Progression out to a 485x5 deadlift, a 405x5x3 squat, a 185x5x3 Press, and a 285x5x3 Bench.
6) If you do that, you’ll be a force to be reckoned with your on the floor vice just being another skinny, injury-prone basketball player who thinks BEING the size of LeBron James is fine, but BECOMING the size of LeBron James is an unforgivable No-No.
7) To that end - quit fretting about your weight. You weight needs to go UP, and by a significant margin. Who dominates in basketball? Big, strong guys. Adding body weight in the form of extra muscle, even if it comes with some fat, will not slow you down, will not diminish your vertical jump, will not slow down your first step. People confuse themselves on this topic all the time, thinking “you don’t need to be a powerlifter” at strength levels that powerlifters would chuckle at. Nobody’s suggesting you become a powerlifter. I’m suggesting you become a big, strong, fast, basketball player who’s impossible to move when he doesn’t want to move. Any muscle you add is what causes the motion, therefore it causes the “explosiveness”.

 

[Alex Sam]

I get where you guys are going complete and i understand what it takes to become really good at basketball seen it with my own eyes many times (from older friends, and an cousin of mines). but the one thing im really worried about is my bodyfat% is at 20% that is alot of dead weight for an basketball player, and at 6'6 im the perfect example of skinny fat, should i not worry about that, I really want to focus on basketball as much as i can but with this dead weight it limit my potential. should i just push that fact aside work and hard in basketball. because i was thinking of cutting with Starting Strength for 3 months t0 get an lower bf percentage atleast lower then 15%, then do an clean bulk from there with SS and prioritize basketball

 

[Alex Sam]

I also really apperatie the advice Steve W. also

 

[Denny Phillips]

Tall guy, former basketball player here (6'6").

First off, groove your shot. Anybody can learn to play defense, it takes time to become an excellent shooter. Moreover, offensive skill work is of paramount importance.

I recommend that you start out with front squats, tall young guys tend to turn back squats into glorified good mornings, YMMV. Also, I also encourage you to perform reverse lunges, perhaps elevated. Recovery is the key so it seems like the three-day a week format would be best. Stick to a few compound movements and don't overdo it.

Sorry for the lack of additional detail but I wanted to chime in with a couple of thoughts that have worked for me as a tall guy and for the basketball players I have trained. I will try to give you some specifics when time allows and I glean more info from this thread.

 

[Alex Sam]

thank you for the advice i did see that front squats in thread are best for tall people, will change that but will learn form before doing that
the thing im really wondering about is should i bulk or cut when i start training first week of march, im skinny fat 20% bodyfat percent so the choice of bulking or cutting for the first leg of my offseason greatly affect what type of player im be on the court my junior year
I could bulk the first few months (3-4) and then cut later nearing the regular season (3-4 also)
or i could cut now to lower my bf to around 12% while strength training (3-4 months) then strength train from the start of summer to a week or two before the regular (3-4 months)

I really see both options have it benfits

what do you think will be best for the situation im in right now? once i stick with one now i wont be able to change it later on becuase 3-4 months from now it will to late to change how im dieting for an effective change wont have alot of time to do so, i either bulk and cut or cut and bulk ( I have roughly 8 months to do this) see this as really important because i have an high bodyfar percentage for an basketball player

I want to ball out and train in basketball as hard as i can, but this issue keep nagging me because i know it will really affect me

 

[IonRod]

Don't do SS if you plan to lose weight. It is a linear progression program and linear progress will stop pretty fast when you are in caloric deficit. If you goal is to gain strength fast, you need to gain a lot of weight quickly. Which will drive your BF% up.

There is no magic pill. If there was a program out there that lets you go on a cut, increase your strength at the same time and do it all in a very short amount of time, everybody would be doing it.

You need to stop worrying about menusha and focus on the big picture. Choose your priority. And no, it cannot be to do all of the above at the same time. That is not how prioirities work. Also, think about your basketball carreer - what is most important for it? Listen to @Steve W. Don't chase arbitrary numbers.

 

[Alex Sam]

so is 8 months not alot of time to cutting and bulking only one of the two can be done
if that is the cases w much do you think ill weight atfer bulking the 8 months im around 195 right now.
i know bulking all the eight months will get me very very strong but really heavy and I probably wont be really explosive, but i know this will is an case of choosing one for the other, should i train through the bulk in an way where im training way more explosive like maybe doing oly lifts later on to activate my fast twitch muscle fibers more. like doing 4 months Starting strength, then 4 months of doing oly lifts and more explosive work
will this get me to where im want to be (which is to be strong and explosive/ higher vertical which i really want from the explosive aspect)

i know by this point im using this thread to solve all my questions i want to answer through in life, but im only doing this to have my head wrapped around what the plan that work best for be in having an chance to playing play college ball (really wan to go D1). Just dont want to waste a great chance at an great future, over small things this is why I keep asking the question, really appreciated it though

 

[Glen]

so is 8 months not alot of time to cutting and bulking only one of the two can be done
if that is the cases w much do you think ill weight atfer bulking the 8 months im around 195 right now.
i know bulking all the eight months will get me very very strong but really heavy and I probably wont be really explosive, but i know this will is an case of choosing one for the other, should i train through the bulk in an way where im training way more explosive like maybe doing oly lifts later on to activate my fast twitch muscle fibers more. like doing 4 months Starting strength, then 4 months of doing oly lifts and more explosive work
will this get me to where im want to be (which is to be strong and explosive/ higher vertical which i really want from the explosive aspect)

i know by this point im using this thread to solve all my questions i want to answer through in life, but im only doing this to have my head wrapped around what the plan that work best for be in having an chance to playing play college ball (really wan to go D1). Just dont want to waste a great chance at an great future, over small things this is why I keep asking the question, really appreciated it though

Again your over complicating things - Olympic lifts take a lot to learn to reap the benefits. In the time frame you have focus on getting stronger, eating enough to fuel your training and practicing your sport.

Do those three things and things like explosive strength etc will take care of themselves.

 

[IonRod]

so is 8 months not alot of time to cutting and bulking only one of the two can be done
if that is the cases w much do you think ill weight atfer bulking the 8 months im around 195 right now.
i know bulking all the eight months will get me very very strong but really heavy and I probably wont be really explosive, but i know this will is an case of choosing one for the other, should i train through the bulk in an way where im training way more explosive like maybe doing oly lifts later on to activate my fast twitch muscle fibers more. like doing 4 months Starting strength, then 4 months of doing oly lifts and more explosive work
will this get me to where im want to be (which is to be strong and explosive/ higher vertical which i really want from the explosive aspect)

i know by this point im using this thread to solve all my questions i want to answer through in life, but im only doing this to have my head wrapped around what the plan that work best for be in having an chance to playing play college ball (really wan to go D1). Just dont want to waste a great chance at an great future, over small things this is why I keep asking the question, really appreciated it though

You are all over the place. You said you want to reach your strength goals by June. That's 4 months, not 8. You are unlikely to gain that much strength in 4 months unless you are highly training-sensitive. This is impossible to predict because all people are on a spectrum of sensitivity when it comes to training intensity and volume and will respond differently.
Next, it is impossible to predict what your LEAN body mass will be by that time. Hence, it is impossible to predict how much BF% you will have to deal with to gain that strength.
People pay huge money to personal trainers and nutritionists who calculate each gram and calorie they put in and burn. And they still can miss their prediction. You are trying to solve a puzzle with hundreds of variables and we know just several of those. And even with those you are not consistant.
Answer this one single question - what is the biggest weakness you have that can fail you? I will put it bluntly - what do you suck at in basketball? Go train that. If you are too weak for basketball, why on earth do you want to deadlift and bench? What benefit on the court will a bigger bench give you? Is that benefit big enough to invest several months into it? Why on earth do you want to do olympic lifts? Will you compete in weightlifting? Will you do any kind of moves on the court that mimic cleans or snatches?
Ask yourself these questions about every single thing that you do. Focus on the essential, cut everything else.

 

[Steve Freides]

but the one thing im really worried about is my bodyfat% is at 20% that is alot of dead weight for an basketball player, and at 6'6 im the perfect example of skinny fat, should i not worry about that

Yes, you should worry about that. Body composition changes begin in the kitchen, not the weight room.

We have a diet section here - please post there.

-S-

 

[Alex Sam]

thank you ion rod, but only benefit i want from the strength training is an base of strength (better bodywieght ratios will bring this). everyone says im in the biggest person on the court but the weakest at the same time they also say im not good on my feet and not very fast or confidence. i will better my footwork and confidence, but will improve the strength with strengh training, with this situation i see it as i can suite my suit my workout to help me in basketball, because im really that weak im doing SS for an base of strength( i said i wanted to sqaut of 300 bench 200 deadlift 400 because its an good base of strength) then ill be training to improve these basketball aspects along with skills training

 

[Anna C]

@Alex Sam , you are an age, size, and gender where amazing things are possible. Far bigger and faster changes than the rest of are capable of. You are doing the right thing in seeking advice! Problem is that you get a lot of it, and it doesn't all agree.

I think that being consistent with your training is the most important thing. Kudos to you for being athletic and active. Many your age are not.

I agree with those who suggest periodizing your efforts -- foucus on one thing for a few months, then something else (i.e. strength, basketball skills, aerobic capacity). Pick your timeframes based on when you need to practice, play, try out, etc.

I agree with your idea to establish a base of strength, and I think it will serve you well. Maybe that's what led you to StrongFirst -- we say, "You can be anything you want to be, but you must be strong first."

I think if you train consistently and intelligently, and eat a sensible quantity of healthy food, the body comp will fall into place.

Other than that, I'll just wish you luck with your goals! And let us know how it goes.

 

[IonRod]

thank you ion rod, but only benefit i want from the strength training is an base of strength (better bodywieght ratios will bring this). everyone says im in the biggest person on the court but the weakest at the same time they also say im not good on my feet and not very fast or confidence.

OK, so you are weakest in what regard? Which aspect of the game is that weakness related to? If it's the vertical jump, squats have been known to improve that, but bench doesn't. I asked you what benefit on the court will the bench give you? So what if you can bench more than other players, will that improve the accuracy of your passes? It won't make you faster or better on your feet.
"Base of strength" is a non-definable term. It doesn't really have any quantifiable measurement and is relative to the goals you want to pursue.
Finally, tell me, what will you do if you don't reach those numbers by June? Will you stop where you are? Or will you keep training until you reach them? What if it means sacrificing more time on the court?
Don't marry yourself to arbitrary numbers. Instead, make a life-long commitment to train strength, while keeping your basketball practice a priority right now. Who knows how strong you will be in 4 months. It is more important to learn the skill of strength training and use it all your life instead of rushing an arbitrary number and then quitting.

 

[Pantrolyx]

I agree with the people saying that you are overcomplicating the major things here. Dont worry about bulking and shredding phases. If you start doing a strength training program (PTTP would be great) and keep on playing a lot of basketball, you will improve both your strength and your sport specific skills. If you clean up your diet (eliminate sugar and junk 5-6 days a week, eat proper food instead), you will also lose fat along the way. And yes, learning how to deadlift will probably reduce your back pains significantly, too.

 

[Alex Sam]

squatting for tall people is hard because of our long femurs , i know front squat are better for me but, but i find when i take an really wide stance and have my toes outward i can keep my torso upright, and not turning it into an good morning, was practicing my form yesterday. i find that i can do high bar ( have to keep chest up more, and keep my core tight), and also low bar this one is a little easier, which form of the squat anyone can recommend for people with my height, 6'6.

also IonRod, I do get where you are going with the bench press, but im already going to do push press and only doing puss presses and nothing else for my upper body wont get it stronger, what other upper body compound lift you would recommoned

 

[Snowman]

Just came upon this thread.

If there was a program out there that lets you go on a cut, increase your strength at the same time and do it all in a very short amount of time, everybody would be doing it.

To be fair, this is 100% possible (although "short time" in this context means 1-3 months). Cut out the processed crap (pizza, pop, snack food, ALL of it), and eat plenty of meat. Basically, just swap junk for meat. Assuming you're training, you will see an increase in muscle and decrease in fat, and your ability to recover will actually get better. Seriously, for a teenager, this is almost gauranteed to work. Like @Steve Freides said, it starts in the kitchen.

As for training, lift weights to get stronger (you've received plenty of good advice about this, so I won't add any more), do easy cardio to improve your ability to recover, and spend most of your training time on the court. Don't over-complicate things

EDIT: Just to be clear, while cut/bulk phases have their place, I'm saying that you, in your specific situation, can do both at the same time, very effectively.

 

[SamTX]

Two great things about this forum both present in this thread.

1) genuine knowledge presented in a positive, caring manner.
2) I have written down four very specific recommendations that benefit me, in my effort to play better pickup basketball at age 46. (Sadly, I have no eligibility left.)

Thanks to all!