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Other/Mixed New Strength Standards

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
Dan John just posted some newer strength standards than what I have seen him talk about in the past, and I like how it is split up between regular men and athletes. I’m curious why the difference between standard and great for some movements is heavier weight and for some it’s more reps (strength endurance), but it looks like a pretty good list to me. What are your thoughts?

“Every sport has different strength requirements, but the standards listed above cover the important ones for most people.

The minimums are appropriate for adults that aren't competitive and just need to stay functionally strong. If you always want to be the guy ready to move a couch, this is a good list. You might not want to be the guy moving the couch, however.

The great standards will cover the needs of most athletes. Again, specific sports might require different things, but if you can hit all of those, strength is most likely not your problem.

YMMV, but these have historically worked well for me...





#strength #squat #trainhard #flex #powerlifting #dedication #strong #gymlife #swole #muscle #ripped #pushpullgrind #power #focus #grow”

2A4946D8-6D55-46E5-8055-28470B8C010A.jpeg29ECD0AB-B06E-4707-87AF-8C61B6F9FD74.jpeg

 
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bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
I saw a similar post by him on IG, but it had pushups instead of pullups.

I wonder how long the farmer walk is supposed to be. Or is there an assumed distance I'm not aware of..?

Standards, imo, are kind of a weird thing, and highly subjective to one's lifestyle, goals, and sport if applicable. I guess if someone asked me to make them, I would make them based off of averages (compared to bodyweight, I guess) for people in whatever the relevant field was. For example, if it was strength standards for powerlifting, I would see what the averages were for competitive powerlifters and base it off of something like that.

For non-competitive folks or people who just want to "be healthy" in some sort of vague sense, I think I would say you should at least be able to "pick up" your own bodyweight in a safe, controlled manner, do a few pullups, and 10-20 pushups (depending on lifestyle, etc). I would be more concerned with things like having good lower body mobility and agility compared to lower body strength (squatting 1.5x body weight).

Interesting topic to ponder.. . .
 

Adam R Mundorf

Level 6 Valued Member
Dan John just posted some newer strength standards than what I have seen him talk about in the past, and I like how it is split up between regular men and athletes. I’m curious why the difference between standard and great for some movements is heavier weight and for some it’s more reps (strength endurance), but it looks like a pretty good list to me. What are your thoughts?

“Every sport has different strength requirements, but the standards listed above cover the important ones for most people.

The minimums are appropriate for adults that aren't competitive and just need to stay functionally strong. If you always want to be the guy ready to move a couch, this is a good list. You might not want to be the guy moving the couch, however.

The great standards will cover the needs of most athletes. Again, specific sports might require different things, but if you can hit all of those, strength is most likely not your problem.

YMMV, but these have historically worked well for me...





#strength #squat #trainhard #flex #powerlifting #dedication #strong #gymlife #swole #muscle #ripped #pushpullgrind #power #focus #grow”

View attachment 18645View attachment 18646

I think those metrics are great. I love the minimum standard because you really don't need to be all that strong to live a long and vibrant life. What we do need more of is mobility, active flexibility, daily walking and heart health. Most people are just carrying groceries anyways with the occasional bout of yard work. I think the risk to reward of strength training becomes skewed at a much lower weight than people realize.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I don't really have a problem with any of the standards per se, but I don't find them applicable to me, mostly because I train predominantly with kettlebells and not barbells. I easily maintain his minimums by just training with kettlebells so there's that I guess... I think I'd have to train specifically for them to hit his maximums - or maybe I'm just not kettlebelling hard enough yet. :)

I think my problem with standards is "why?" I get its a popular question on the internet, but I'm much more concerned about improvement, both in myself and my clients. I care less about how I or they stack up and more about are whether we're closer now to meeting our goals than we were a month ago.

I forget what it was, but he had a set of standards for some type of athlete a while ago, and he said "if you can hit these strength goals, then strength is no longer your problem - your skill in your sport is." There an experienced coach is saying for an athlete is this sport, playing this position, we see great returns on the field by getting them this strong, but then the effort involved in getting stronger isn't worth the benefit and the time is better spent just getting better at the sport.
 

Stephen B.

Level 4 Valued Member
I wonder how long the farmer walk is supposed to be. Or is there an assumed distance I'm not aware of..?
He's said previously that you just need to carry it for a few meters, unless it specifies a distance.

I think his standards for athletes are low for many sports, such as football, throwing and wrestling, though just fine for many others even up to an elite level. Most athletes don't need to get stronger to get much better than they are, but at an elite level strength is practically required in many sports.

Garage Strength has very high strength standards for athletes depending on their sport. German and Russian wrestlers aim to back squat twice their weight class, on average, according to Carmen Bott.
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
. I would be more concerned with things like having good lower body mobility and agility compared to lower body strength (squatting 1.5x body weight).

Interesting topic to ponder.. . .

I think it’s impossible to write a comprehensive list of strength goals, but in this case his Great standard is 15 reps of BW squat, not 1.5 x BW. My guess is this is because to do that with proper form represents full body mobility as there’s not a good chance you’d be able to do full depth squats for that many reps if your mobility sucks.
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
Garage Strength has very high strength standards for athletes depending on their sport. German and Russian wrestlers aim to back squat twice their weight class, on average, according to Carmen Bott.
Two times weight class is probably around 1.8 x BW, up to max of 2x BW. I would think BW for 15 reps would likely put most people close to this so it doesn’t seem far off from Dan’s list above (just different, as his is more endurance based it seems). Unless you meant 2x BW for reps?
 

Stephen B.

Level 4 Valued Member
Two times weight class is probably around 1.8 x BW, up to max of 2x BW. I would think BW for 15 reps would likely put most people close to this so it doesn’t seem far off from Dan’s list above (just different, as his is more endurance based it seems). Unless you meant 2x BW for reps?
Wouldn't be far off from the Russian standards, which are around 2x bodyweight 1rm, though the East german standards are often 3x bodyweight in lighter classes.

No press?

Now I'm a sad panda.
Presses aren't part of the listed standards, probably because exercise selection is much less consistent. It mentions the Iranians focus on the Bench and the Snatch grip press, which actually seems like a logical choice in my experience. I think almost all experienced wrestlers would agree that upper body strength is important, for grip fighting if nothing else.

Edit: Wrestling Strength Training: Are You Strong Enough?
 

Pavel.Kosenkov

Level 1 Valued Member
I think it’s impossible to write a comprehensive list of strength goals, but in this case his Great standard is 15 reps of BW squat, not 1.5 x BW. My guess is this is because to do that with proper form represents full body mobility as there’s not a good chance you’d be able to do full depth squats for that many reps if your mobility sucks.
That's because Dan John believes in high rep squats.
Also, because squat is the most technical from all the grinds. Deadlift - you just lock it out. Squat - well, there is this depth question.
 

BillSteamshovel

Level 5 Valued Member
Ummmm ....... Blimey ! I could imagine doing a farmers walk with 40kg = 1/2 x BW in each hand at some stage in the future. But full BW in each hand ? Not for me.

Am curious, how many of you who read this regard carrying BW simultaneously in each hand as being possible ?

For me that's an 80 kg, hardwood, 2.7m x 25cm x10cm railway sleeper in each hand.

I will go outside tomorrow and attach suitcase handles to 2 sleepers. ; )
 

TimothyGander

Level 5 Valued Member
I wonder why there's a high-rep bench standard. Is it meant to filter out people who bench with extreme arch just to eke out a few more pounds?

No press?
Maybe it's due to form controversies.

Am curious, how many of you who read this regard carrying BW simultaneously in each hand as being possible ?
I think he meant bodyweight as a both hands total, i.e. half bodyweight in each.
 

BillSteamshovel

Level 5 Valued Member
I think he meant bodyweight as a both hands total, i.e. half bodyweight in each.
The way I read the above coloured pictures is that Minimum Standard is 1/2BW in each hand and Great Standard is full bodyweight in each hand ........... I'm thinking that is a huge weight for anyone to carry in each hand.
 

Ege

Level 5 Valued Member
Ummmm ....... Blimey ! I could imagine doing a farmers walk with 40kg = 1/2 x BW in each hand at some stage in the future. But full BW in each hand ? Not for me.

Am curious, how many of you who read this regard carrying BW simultaneously in each hand as being possible ?

For me that's an 80 kg, hardwood, 2.7m x 25cm x10cm railway sleeper in each hand.

I will go outside tomorrow and attach suitcase handles to 2 sleepers. ; )

Dan John is a very experienced coach of course.

But the carry standards did not mean much to me. If we are talking about walking a few meters, I think anybody would be able to do that with the weight that they can deadlift. So if you DL 1xBW you can do carry 1xBW and for 2x it should be very similar… in my humble opinion.
 

Ege

Level 5 Valued Member
The way I read the above coloured pictures is that Minimum Standard is 1/2BW in each hand and Great Standard is full bodyweight in each hand ........... I'm thinking that is a huge weight for anyone to carry in each hand.

If you can deadlift 1xBW , carry 1/2 BW in each would not be far away… in my opinion.
 

Ege

Level 5 Valued Member
Which is not so easy with Fat Gripz.

Sure, what I am trying to say, is not 1xBW or 2xBW carries are easy.

But in the same standards there are also DL standards.

I believe whatever your DL weight is, you are not far away from carrying the same total amount in farmers walk set up.

Maybe Dan John wanted to emphasize the importance of carries.

But it just seemed like saying, you have to do 5 strict pull ups and by the way you have to be able to do 10kg weighted pull ups as well. Well if you do 5 strict pull ups, then you are very close to be doing 1 rep weighted 10 kg pull ups…. Hence it sounded to me like a “repetition” with in the standards…
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Ummmm ....... Blimey ! I could imagine doing a farmers walk with 40kg = 1/2 x BW in each hand at some stage in the future. But full BW in each hand ? Not for me.

If you can DL 2xBW, it's a pretty straight forward transition to using a trap bar for a farmer's carry of the same weight.

Whenever I've done it, it's a pretty quick switch --- usually around 4 weeks is enough to adjust to the difference in grip position and build up a bit of grip and back endurance.
 
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