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Other/Mixed New training block, Isometrics as primary resistance training

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

3letterslong

Level 6 Valued Member
There doesn't sound like much difference between fast ISO's and the MVC? I am sure they aren't, but it kind of sounds similar.
There is to me. When I do MVC, it's a slower process because I feel like I try to maximally contract everything, but then I go in with my awareness and find that I can eke out even more tension by "shoring up" the muscles involved. Sometimes I feel like by the time I'm finally turning everything on maximally, the muscles that turned on right away are starting to get tired. I'd say it takes around 5-10 seconds to feel like I've actually hit MVC.

But then, I've always grappled with certain muscles compensating for others and the imbalances that result.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
@3letterslong
I guess it takes about 3-5 seconds normally to feel like everything that can pull, is pulling.

The higher % the preload maybe this value shrinks a little.

One of the goals of firing as fast and hard as possible following a 10-30% preload is to shrink that time further, the Rate of Force Production. The main reason I do this over a slower ramp up is the research supports “ballistic intent” for best results, and this (to my way of thinking) is further supported by research with isotonics.
 

3letterslong

Level 6 Valued Member
@3letterslong
I guess it takes about 3-5 seconds normally to feel like everything that can pull, is pulling.

The higher % the preload maybe this value shrinks a little.

One of the goals of firing as fast and hard as possible following a 10-30% preload is to shrink that time further, the Rate of Force Production. The main reason I do this over a slower ramp up is the research supports “ballistic intent” for best results, and this (to my way of thinking) is further supported by research with isotonics.

Oh, interesting. So you're saying you still try to fire everything as quickly as possible during the MVC sets? I can definitely mosey less when I do those.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Oh, interesting. So you're saying you still try to fire everything as quickly as possible during the MVC sets? I can definitely mosey less when I do those.
The intent is to launch into as rapidly as possible, and to capture as much of that initial tension as possible while maintaining the trajectory of the pull to a MVC.

The initial pop is always going to carry more force since it has a slight bit of inertia (in my case I can see the corners of my board flexing more) but I want to “occupy that space” as much as I am able. The goal is to not only increase initial rate of force production but decrease the time it takes to hit MVC. Those qualities aren’t going to develop by serendipity, and chasing them is going to really target the type 2 fibers, however one goes about it a la SF principles.

Keep in mind I recommend beginners work into this by using a higher preload or just take a little more time ramping up. But once you are able to confidently increase movement speed, do so. Otherwise you leave gains on the table for no good reason.

This advice needs to be placed in context for the elderly, injury rehab, etc, but it is another autoregulating form of progression: fire as fast as possible, as hard as possible, relax as fast as possible, as completely as possible. Along with hold time and volume, these are the most important variables from my POV.
 

Ricky01

Level 6 Valued Member
The intent is to launch into as rapidly as possible, and to capture as much of that initial tension as possible while maintaining the trajectory of the pull to a MVC.

The initial pop is always going to carry more force since it has a slight bit of inertia (in my case I can see the corners of my board flexing more) but I want to “occupy that space” as much as I am able. The goal is to not only increase initial rate of force production but decrease the time it takes to hit MVC. Those qualities aren’t going to develop by serendipity, and chasing them is going to really target the type 2 fibers, however one goes about it a la SF principles.

Keep in mind I recommend beginners work into this by using a higher preload or just take a little more time ramping up. But once you are able to confidently increase movement speed, do so. Otherwise you leave gains on the table for no good reason.

This advice needs to be placed in context for the elderly, injury rehab, etc, but it is another autoregulating form of progression: fire as fast as possible, as hard as possible, relax as fast as possible, as completely as possible. Along with hold time and volume, these are the most important variables from my POV.
I know this is an ongoing experiment and you are making little changes, but have you found a joint angles/length of muscle that you currently think has worked best when targeted - responding in strength increases (as far as you can tell) and muscular growth?

Richard
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I know this is an ongoing experiment and you are making little changes, but have you found a joint angles/length of muscle that you currently think has worked best when targeted - responding in strength increases (as far as you can tell) and muscular growth?

Richard
“Long”
The targeted muscles should be trained at the longest length possible that one can still generate a subjective maximal effort. In some cases this does mean it won’t be at its longest possible length.

Dynamic tension should bounce between long and short(er) but should include a long length component.

I have not found a single instance where switching to a longer variation of a given hold failed to improve the response. Beginners etc might want to start with holds that are more comfortable, but as with speed, this should be progressed as soon as practical.
 

Ricky01

Level 6 Valued Member
“Long”
The targeted muscles should be trained at the longest length possible that one can still generate a subjective maximal effort. In some cases this does mean it won’t be at its longest possible length.

Dynamic tension should bounce between long and short(er) but should include a long length component.

I have not found a single instance where switching to a longer variation of a given hold failed to improve the response. Beginners etc might want to start with holds that are more comfortable, but as with speed, this should be progressed as soon as practical.
Totally agree about the muscle at length. The first time I ever heard about this was where I spent a year (quite a while back) using Dante Trudels DC training. Every movement was finished with what he called an 'extreme stretch' eg hanging. The goal was 60 seconds minimum before load was increased or added.

Richard
 

Ricky01

Level 6 Valued Member
Totally agree about the muscle at length. The first time I ever heard about this was where I spent a year (quite a while back) using Dante Trudels DC training. Every movement was finished with what he called an 'extreme stretch' eg hanging. The goal was 60 seconds minimum before load was increased or added.

Richard
Interestingly, as I think back - Dante said that he swore by the extreme stretch. He said after some Lat work, finishing with 60 second sets or often max hold sets was what he believed gave him his lat size.

Same for the bottom of a DB fly (for chest) etc.
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
Some absolute nuggets on Tommy John’s podcast episode about isometrics: ‎Gettin' Naked with TJ Podcast: Isometrics? on Apple Podcasts

Covers the pros and cons of three styles of isometrics: holding position, pulling into position (”extreme iso”), pushing against immovable objects (overcoming iso). Also covers some very brief programming tips. Probably something you might know already, but for me it was a great summary.
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
How about this for a package for those that don’t want to build their own? Can be used with one chain in the middle, or two on the outside and can also be used with bands:

 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
How about this for a package for those that don’t want to build their own? Can be used with one chain in the middle, or two on the outside and can also be used with bands:

Actually looks promising.
Personally I’d say the bench should fold at the middle, open it should be the length of the bar. But all in all not a bad unit if it holds up to abuse. I wonder about that bar doing full blown squats.
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
Actually looks promising.
Personally I’d say the bench should fold at the middle, open it should be the length of the bar. But all in all not a bad unit if it holds up to abuse. I wonder about that bar doing full blown squats.

I definitely don’t know, but they claim up to 500 lbs e we high is plenty for someone like me but may not be enough for some. The chain adapters also fit any 1” bar if you need more I guess.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
@BJJ Shawn

A viewer on one of my YT videos asked about this:

Actually a good unit for the price. Toss in a piece of plywood and 4 or 5 feet of pipe.

The resistance bands on the F2 are a nice touch, esp if you can rapidly swap out the static lines and the bands. Almost any external resistance full ROM could be paired with the iso.

Am currently getting very good response from using overcoming iso with my sandbags. Have approached and back off this a couple times out of concern for my knees and mobility generally, finally committed to a plunge.
 

Ricky01

Level 6 Valued Member
@BJJ Shawn

A viewer on one of my YT videos asked about this:

Actually a good unit for the price. Toss in a piece of plywood and 4 or 5 feet of pipe.

The resistance bands on the F2 are a nice touch, esp if you can rapidly swap out the static lines and the bands. Almost any external resistance full ROM could be paired with the iso.

Am currently getting very good response from using overcoming iso with my sandbags. Have approached and back off this a couple times out of concern for my knees and mobility generally, finally committed to a plunge.
Are you uaware of the tension your bands are?

I have levels 1 to 4 (of a possible 5, based on brand). Level 3 allowed me a pretty testing 15 reps of pushups.
Level 4 I swear you could pull a car with.

Haha maybe that's the goal, build up to pushup for 5 and rows for maybe 10, with a level 4.

Richard
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Are you uaware of the tension your bands are?

I have levels 1 to 4 (of a possible 5, based on brand). Level 3 allowed me a pretty testing 15 reps of pushups.
Level 4 I swear you could pull a car with.

Haha maybe that's the goal, build up to pushup for 5 and rows for maybe 10, with a level 4.

Richard
Currently my strapping is all canvas, not using resistance bands except for in-place sprinting.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Two more forms, bench and curl. These use a longer period of dynamic tension, keeping the pulses but shorter time/fewer shots.

The biceps are countered with forward lean and hamstring contraction to drive the knees forward/stretch the biceps. Shrugging the shoulders/packing them back and down also applies stretching force. These are pretty brutal but have added a lot of elbow friendly mass to my biceps.

Bench dynamic roll to the side using leg drive, lengthen and shorten the pecs and cross body linking. These can really challenge the intercostals.



 
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ChiBill

Level 5 Valued Member
@North Coast Miller How many times do you repeat those cycles for each move in a workout if you don't mind me asking? Also how many days a week are you doing any given iso and. How many exercises in a session?
I've been following this thread since you started it, very informative keep up the good work man!
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
So, each of those cycles is 2x per exercise. These are done on my basic ABA, BAB template of push, pull, hinge, squat plus some bicep/tricep and abs. 5 “lifts” and abs and stretching.

Normally 3x per week, sometimes 4 alternated days with HIIT or an easy jog.

I keep trying to do hybrid sandbag + isometrics, but wind up back at just isometrics and dynamic tension after a few sessions.
 
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