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Other/Mixed New training block, Isometrics as primary resistance training

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

KLB81

Level 3 Valued Member
center chain that scuttles it for directly approximating the most common cast iron resistance loading patterns aside from biceps curl
While the center chain would limit some positions

Wouldn't Deadlift, Front Squat and Shoulder Press still be possible?
 

Pantrolyx

Level 5 Valued Member
Was this bent during use? Which position and how much force did it take?
Yeah, it was, somewhat gradually.
Deadlifts with a rather high starting point took the major toll, seemingly.
The last stage of the bending was done in the range of high 200 kilos, although I have touched 320 kilos at the most in (more or less) the same position.

DragonDoor have declared that they are willing to send me a new baseplate, so credit to them there!
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
DragonDoor have declared that they are willing to send me a new baseplate, so credit to them there!

Not sure why but initially I thought the plate came that way, wasn't clear what I was looking at. That's some honest effort right there!

Would it be possible to mount the new plate to something a little beefier, or bypass it entirely and anchor the other end to a deck of hardwood planks or 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood?
 

Pantrolyx

Level 5 Valued Member
Not sure why but initially I thought the plate came that way, wasn't clear what I was looking at. That's some honest effort right there!

Would it be possible to mount the new plate to something a little beefier, or bypass it entirely and anchor the other end to a deck of hardwood planks or 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood?
Yeah, I am not the most competent craftsman myself, but I have recieved numerous suggestions to make it more durable. Living in an apartment does limit my options a litle bit though, as my neighbours below are unlikely to be enthusiastic about some solid bolts in the floor. :cool:
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Yeah, I am not the most competent craftsman myself, but I have recieved numerous suggestions to make it more durable. Living in an apartment does limit my options a litle bit though, as my neighbours below are unlikely to be enthusiastic about some solid bolts in the floor. :cool:
Run bolts through the plywood and glue a cheap fatigue mat to the bottom to keep from scraping up the floor.
 

Ivan Merl

Level 6 Valued Member
I remember hopping on the Sisco PFT wagon and I loved it, for a while. My first three weeks on the program and my muscles ballooned up everywhere. I also managed a one are pull up with each hand after not doing any pullups for over 3 months. But the gains slowly declined and I lost mass and strength over time.

The gains were so good I may have to give something like it another go as an experiment.

Good luck with your program.
 

LarryB

Level 6 Valued Member
I leep coming across isometric stuff now that i am more aware of it. Just going to keep posting them here. This is a pressing plateau breaker from Kenneth Jay’s “Perfecting the Press”. 47677B7C-5ADA-47ED-8579-42C8FECD9645.png7BC214F9-8F95-47CE-A66E-08A575D7E73B.pngFD937865-21D9-4470-A5CA-442143C4ABCA.png
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Good luck with your program.

So far I'm bouncing between 198 and 200lbs bodyweight at slightly lower bf% compared to the last time I was this heavy back in '19. My legs have gotten a lot bigger, overall feeling real good. Still slowly putting on some muscle - have my sights set on 205 solid, which would mean topping out around 207.

One of the issues I keep coming up against is when I go to test for reps I don't have any problems pounding it out but the DOMS is absolutely horrific. I wonder if that means anything important is being left behind. In the real world I'm not going to be training a single repetitive movement to failure, and then doing it again tomorrow.
 

Tarzan

Level 6 Valued Member
So far I'm bouncing between 198 and 200lbs bodyweight at slightly lower bf% compared to the last time I was this heavy back in '19. My legs have gotten a lot bigger, overall feeling real good. Still slowly putting on some muscle - have my sights set on 205 solid, which would mean topping out around 207.

One of the issues I keep coming up against is when I go to test for reps I don't have any problems pounding it out but the DOMS is absolutely horrific. I wonder if that means anything important is being left behind. In the real world I'm not going to be training a single repetitive movement to failure, and then doing it again tomorrow.
It seems like the program is working well but when you have to apply a dynamic force over the full ROM it doesn't carry over quite so well. I have the inverse problem, I can train hard over the full ROM with no issues but when I get the weed whacker out once a month or so I go through the DOMS for the next few days even though the weed whacker weighs almost nothing.
So it seems like we need static strength and dynamic strength in the real world.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
...but when you have to apply a dynamic force over the full ROM it doesn't carry over quite so well. .

I'm thinking its more of an unaccustomed movement issue than a lack of carry-over, maybe providing more insight into what generates DOMS. It may even be due entirely to the loaded eccentric portion.

One isometric property I feel has been more or less debunked is the lack of carry-over through dynamic movement. I'm not seeing any problem with actually moving the weights.
 

Tarzan

Level 6 Valued Member
I think you summed it quite well there. The ability to perform a movement without experiencing DOMS is not really specific to the type the type of training you do, it's when you do something you're not accustomed to that you start to get muscle soreness.
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
@North Coast Miller forgive me if you've discussed this at length elsewhere . . . Also, I was going to DM about it but then thought that it might fit into this thread, as it is sort of the "big isometric thread" on the forum. I'd be happy to start a new one if you'd like to keep this one centered around your own training.

You use a lot of overcoming isometrics, but what do you think, or what is your experience with yielding isometrics?

I've often contemplated incorporating a bigger bulk of bent arm stands (the bottom position of the freestanding hspu) into my own training to boost hspu potential. My next thought is that while it's more difficult to hold on the floor as compared to parallettes or the like, the working muscles are kind of smack dab in the middle of their range of motion, which I suppose could be a good thing if we are to believe the "15 degrees either way" argument.... However, the muscles are under more stretch if this postion is held using paralletes, but it is subjectively much much easier to hold. Maybe by focusing on pushing really hard in this position? Lastly, I'd have to do a deeper dive into anatomy but a deep dip isometric might produce a better strech on the deltoids, but the position of the body is entirely different.

Happy to link or send pics and videos if any of that needs it.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
@North Coast Miller

You use a lot of overcoming isometrics, but what do you think, or what is your experience with yielding isometrics?

I've often contemplated incorporating a bigger bulk of bent arm stands (the bottom position of the freestanding hspu) into my own training to boost hspu potential. My next thought is that while it's more difficult to hold on the floor as compared to parallettes or the like, the working muscles are kind of smack dab in the middle of their range of motion, which I suppose could be a good thing if we are to believe the "15 degrees either way" argument.... However, the muscles are under more stretch if this postion is held using paralletes, but it is subjectively much much easier to hold. Maybe by focusing on pushing really hard in this position? Lastly, I'd have to do a deeper dive into anatomy but a deep dip isometric might produce a better strech on the deltoids, but the position of the body is entirely different.

Happy to link or send pics and videos if any of that needs it.
I'd need to see a pic or sketch maybe but here are my thoughts in general:
_yielding iso has more in common with eccentrics and Super Slow than it has with overcoming iso. While some coaches don't recommend eccentrics as a lead in for better concentric, others definitely do. A hold at a stick point or a slow eccentric into a stick point at sub maximal loading will have good effect for motor learning but may or may not improve overcoming resistance strength in the movement generally.

For myself I avoid yielding and eccentrics-only not because they don't have some value but because they wind up being an added training consideration that I just am not willing to deal with based on past experience. Other approaches such as Cluster Set training trigger a (much) better response.

If I understand you correctly re the mid-range hold, I'd want to find some way to brace my feet at that point with knees slightly bent - drive with the legs to overload the delts, lats etc, or just push as hard as possible through the arms. Otherwise you're doing submax long duration Iso which in my experience is very equivalent to high rep moderate load training.

Another option would be to execute an upright Iso hold using similar/identical posture, which will look very much like an elbows forward OHP at a low angle. From experience, these are one of the more unpleasant Iso holds to do in terms of force generation - you aren't going to feel very strong doing it, but it does trigger a good response, one that will definitely carry over to hspu. You take that improved ability to generate force and apply to the mechanics of hspu by practicing the movement. My experience is that this approach might be the most simple and effective to apply given your goal, have gotten VERY solid carry-over to similar movement patterns from all of my iso holds.

A last thought is a strategy I've been using to help with hypertrophy but also helps with power and doesn't require you to figure out any new bracing or alternative loading schemes. Pulsed overcoming Iso. Get into the lowest hold angle you can (or the midpoint if you wish) and apply a series of rapid contract/relax pulses - the contraction phase will not really move you overall or change the joint angle much but will allow enough time for a VERY brief relax before the next hard contraction. You're firing rapidly against the gravity drop of your own body weight or whatever source of resistance is being used. A series of between 8 and 20 of these at the end of an RPE 6-7 set or done alone at the end of a session should generate a good response as well. Do these when good and warmed up.
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Yes I can see how yielding isos are more like eccentrics. In my case, a wider hspu is possible, but not yet with the elbows “tucked,” which is what I’d like. So the position I’m talking about is still definitely a supra-maximal hold. Thus pushing with my legs is kind of out of the question haha. I like the set up you made for overhead press though. I’ve done similar with bands. Just didn’t feel like it was helping, though I only used it as a supplement.
 

Kev

Level 6 Valued Member
Am a few weeks into a block I intend to run for 3-4 months. Pretty excited about this, so thought I'd share with the crew.

The literature supporting use of Iso-only for mass gain is not very plentiful despite plenty of anecdotal accounts and examples from old time strongmen (who's exact training regimen is largely lost to time). My intention is to use this to gain about 8-10lbs 100% lean mass as well as improve my isotonic lift numbers, will be testing every 4-6 weeks or so.
Have used isometrics before but never in a comprehensive manner and never with intent to do more than rehab or maintain. Through past use I have developed some insight into what I feel is a solid approach, the early results are encouraging. The following is a disgorgement of my thoughts on the topic as well as overview of my current approach (subject to revision!) Also included is pic of the latest training widget that solves a lot of the challenges facing comprehensive use of Isometrics, namely ability to mimic traditional lifts with minimal equipment and ease of change-over.




Generally all my programs are constructed around primary push, pull, hinge, squat with accessory exercises as compliment. In most cases this equals 8 exercises (4 primary, 4 accessory) with a few additional abdominal, bicep, tricep thrown in at the end. I alternate primary and accessory by classification.

This gives every primary lift pattern a break every other session, while maintaining consistent volume to some of the prime moving muscles. This strategy works well with every resistance training mode out there. The selection of specific exercises can be swapped out periodically but should be readily identifiable by classification or otherwise accounted for in the daily volume.

A timer is super helpful!

Day 1
- Zercher Deadlift (primary hinge)
- High Pull/Upright row (accessory pull)
- Quad extension/Hack Squat (accessory squat)
- Benchpress, sandbag for bench (primary push)
- Hammer curls
- Crunches

Day 2
- Squat (primary squat)
- overhead press (accessory push)
- Hamstring extension/curl (accessory hinge)
- Bent Row (primary pull)
- Triceps extension
- Leg raises

Day 3
Jump rope HIIT - 15 minutes

Then repeat Day1 and Day2. I view the HIIT day as optional based on time constraints.

The tool - 2x3' 3/4" plywood with cutouts for strap angle, 4 foot by 2" dowel, 14ft cargo strap with hooks cut off and replaced with webbing tie downs.

FoBQJerm.jpg

Example in use with accessory Quad isolation lunge:
Mj0OfmRm.jpg


Having the strap cut-outs off center allows me to lean into a lot of my lifts, pre-loading the muscle and providing some initial load feedback.
Cool device. I was initially wondering if you went Bruce Lee or Hi tech (isochain). I used isometrics years ago after reading “expressing the human body” by Bruce Lee (technically Uyehara but it’s apparently a Bruce Lee book). I used a telescopic chin up bar in a door frame at various heights. I for one will be extremely interested in your results and experiences as I’m thinking of constructing one like Lee used (chain and block to stand on style). Keep us all posted please.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Cool device. I was initially wondering if you went Bruce Lee or Hi tech (isochain). I used isometrics years ago after reading “expressing the human body” by Bruce Lee (technically Uyehara but it’s apparently a Bruce Lee book). I used a telescopic chin up bar in a door frame at various heights. I for one will be extremely interested in your results and experiences as I’m thinking of constructing one like Lee used (chain and block to stand on style). Keep us all posted please.
I'm still running this, regular updates in my training log. I haven't tested in about a month, so a battery of single leg squat, loaded pushups, OHP is coming up soon. I'd really like to get into a gym and test vs barbell, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I would highly recommend using the rig I came up with as its pretty inexpensive and you can brace 100% MVC on a lot more movements than the Hoffman isochain.

My initial goals were met, I am having trouble getting above 200lbs bodyweight without putting on more fat than I'd like, but that was true with sandbags, and I wasn't able to get close training only kettlebell (am 5'10").

Overall am very happy with the longer term use of this, has been a very positive experience. Training regular sets and reps for strength now feels strange and inefficient.
 
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