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Other/Mixed New training block, Isometrics as primary resistance training

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Hi Miller and everyone else!

I wanted to contribute my experience with isometric training.

Here's my 'Simple Isometric Strength' routine that I've been doing for about half a year now - it's actually pretty similar to what Miller posted above...

1) Deadlift 3 x 20 seconds

2) Overhead press 3 x 20 seconds

3) Bent over row (but I'm sat on the floor) 3 x 20 seconds

I also do (alternating them in pairs)...

4) Finger pulls (climbing block looped under feet) 3 x 20 seconds

5) Hanging on pull up bar (gentle knee raises just to feel good) 3 x 20 seconds

6) Ab wheel 3 x 30 second (or whatever, really) holds

7) Loaded carries with two 25 liter jerry cans full of water (new addition to the routine)

Few notes...

- I just use a resistance strap with handles and stand on it with shoes on

- I rest between sets for as long as it takes my heart rate to come back down

- In fact, I think that could be good advice for beginners: rather than a countdown timer, use a metronome counter and rest for as long as you need to between sets

- I upped my hold time to 20 seconds seeing Miller's advice and, like him, I find I can sustain a high output throughout

- I haven't started doing jolts or moving tension like Miller does yet

- Like Miller I just use one joint angle: the point of least leverage (or somewhere comfortable near there)

- I'm 35, 5 foot 7 inches, probably around 67kg, lean build - light but strong for my weight (I think, anyway! :))

- I do this routine every day I'm not climbing or skateboarding, so usually 4 to 6 days per week (I just prefer to do some kind of exercise every day)

- I also do some breath work at the beginning of the workout

- I don't do squats because my body has never agreed with them (as per Stuart McGill's teaching I have deep-set hips)

Why I keep using isometrics (benefits):

- My posture feels good

- My body feels more 'integrated' - e.g. things like irritated knees or hip discomfort have pretty much gone

- I have lots of energy for my hobbies, even though I don't really take a day off

- I feel strong and fast (how you feel strength-wise is underrated, I think!)

- I feel better after my workouts than before them (a lot of training I did in the past eventually started to run me down or even injure me - my fault, but still!)

- I can workout when I travel for work (minimal equipment)

- I just really enjoy working out like this!

Thoughts on equipment:

- I would like to make an iso-deck like Miller's but smaller so I can travel with it for work

- There are some cool force measuring devices - like the Tindeq 300 - but I'm not sure if they're more hassle than they're worth in terms of set up, and I care more about feeling good than hitting numbers

Negative isometric things:

- It's hard to measure strength improvements (but I think there's a lot to be said for subjective feeling too!)

- You have to get your form right because you're putting immense and sustained pressure on your body

I've also been reading quite a lot about isometric use in various fields - like climbing and sprint training - if anyone's interested in that let me know.

I'm a copywriter by trade so if anyone has any isometric topics / questions they'd like me to research and write about just let me know and I'll share what I come up with!

Thanks for everyone who's contributed here - especially Miller.
Hey

Thanks for your post. Hearing from people who have used a training method and can report back their findings (regardless of any bias that may exist) is really valuable for others.

If I can ask - how do you see this progressing (more sets, longer holds etc)?

Thanks

Richard
 
Hey

Thanks for your post. Hearing from people who have used a training method and can report back their findings (regardless of any bias that may exist) is really valuable for others.

If I can ask - how do you see this progressing (more sets, longer holds etc)?

Thanks

Richard

Hey Richard,

Some thoughts on progression…

- Is probably prioritise progression through greater intensity / force generation

- Isometrics seems like a self-regulating exercise, when you’re tired you simply won’t be able to exert as much force (a lighter workout) vs when you feel energised (a heavier workout)

- I’d like to either measure my force or test free weights occasionally

- I don’t really want t add time because my workout is currently at about 30 mins which fits my day

- I wouldn’t mind adding bodybuilding style moves and aiming for some more hypertrophy, but I have IBS so my eating can be erratic - that’s why I prioritise strength

- As long as it keeps me feeling good and strong for life / activities that’s it really… I’m happy to do the same thing for next ten years if it fulfills those goals

Hope this helps!

And I appreciate anyone else’s thoughts / input.
 
Research group of 1:
- using isotonics or dynamic tension within the same session as overcoming isometrics seems to blunt the potentiation effect from the isometrics.
It also seems to reduce the “happy joints” effect. The gain in blood occlusion from using these methods, along with any possible proprioceptive benefit seems not to be worth the effort.

This blows a large hole in my earliest theories re combinations of isometric and isotonic in the same session. If the use of these approaches is important to the longer term goal (Eg for rapid hypertrophy) I am guessing a better outcome will come from using them in separate blocks.

If they are not important to the longer term goal, don’t go out of your way to include them.
 
Research group of 1:
- using isotonics or dynamic tension within the same session as overcoming isometrics seems to blunt the potentiation effect from the isometrics.
It also seems to reduce the “happy joints” effect. The gain in blood occlusion from using these methods, along with any possible proprioceptive benefit seems not to be worth the effort.

This blows a large hole in my earliest theories re combinations of isometric and isotonic in the same session. If the use of these approaches is important to the longer term goal (Eg for rapid hypertrophy) I am guessing a better outcome will come from using them in separate blocks.

If they are not important to the longer term goal, don’t go out of your way to include them.
Do you see your rapid pulses as an isotonic movement?
 
Research group of 1:
- using isotonics or dynamic tension within the same session as overcoming isometrics seems to blunt the potentiation effect from the isometrics.
It also seems to reduce the “happy joints” effect. The gain in blood occlusion from using these methods, along with any possible proprioceptive benefit seems not to be worth the effort.

This blows a large hole in my earliest theories re combinations of isometric and isotonic in the same session. If the use of these approaches is important to the longer term goal (Eg for rapid hypertrophy) I am guessing a better outcome will come from using them in separate blocks.

If they are not important to the longer term goal, don’t go out of your way to include them.
Does 'dynamic tension' refer to what you've been doing in your 3rd set?

Are you going to change that going forward?

I'm still just doing 3 x 20 sec static full effort holds at moment, feels good to me
 
Does 'dynamic tension' refer to what you've been doing in your 3rd set?

Are you going to change that going forward?

I'm still just doing 3 x 20 sec static full effort holds at moment, feels good to me
Exactly, and including the isotonic sandbag set, will be scrubbing them from the lineup. They were the next evolution of the experiment but didn’t really pan out.

Currently doing 3x20x20 with 20 second pulses immediately after the static hold.
 
Exactly, and including the isotonic sandbag set, will be scrubbing them from the lineup. They were the next evolution of the experiment but didn’t really pan out.

Currently doing 3x20x20 with 20 second pulses immediately after the static hold.
I’m not sure how you feel about loaded carries, but they’ve felt like a really good addition as part of the ab work in my routine - I guess there’s a large portion of the movement that’s static (upper body).

They also feel good for posture which is something I get out of isometrics too.

Might be worth an experiment?
 
I’m not sure how you feel about loaded carries, but they’ve felt like a really good addition as part of the ab work in my routine - I guess there’s a large portion of the movement that’s static (upper body).

They also feel good for posture which is something I get out of isometrics too.

Might be worth an experiment?
I’ve done the loaded carries in the past, suitcase and bearhug. Despite being well regarded and recommended, I didn’t really feel like they added a whole lot to my training, not enough to justify added training time.

I did experiment with unilateral iso “carries” and they felt a lot like mobile carries but my facet arthritis responded with ominous rumblings that had me discontinue after a few weeks.

Very strange that the longer I go without isotonics, the less I see the value of including them. Defense against DOMS is currently the best reason I can come up with.
 
I’ve done the loaded carries in the past, suitcase and bearhug. Despite being well regarded and recommended, I didn’t really feel like they added a whole lot to my training, not enough to justify added training time.

I did experiment with unilateral iso “carries” and they felt a lot like mobile carries but my facet arthritis responded with ominous rumblings that had me discontinue after a few weeks.

Very strange that the longer I go without isotonics, the less I see the value of including them. Defense against DOMS is currently the best reason I can come up with.
I remember reading earlier in this thread that you had hefted a 260 pound lawnmower onto the back of a truck, so I think your loaded carry strength is maybe pretty high already!

I did wonder about 'isometric carries' but could only come up with a one-handed deadlift.

I meant to ask, when you say you do 3x20x20 with 20 seconds of pulses after the hold, do you mean:

3 sets of:

20 second hold
20 second pulses
20 second rest

You don't feel like more rest with strength stuff is better? Or trying to get some heart-rate benefits too?
 
I remember reading earlier in this thread that you had hefted a 260 pound lawnmower onto the back of a truck, so I think your loaded carry strength is maybe pretty high already!

I did wonder about 'isometric carries' but could only come up with a one-handed deadlift.

I meant to ask, when you say you do 3x20x20 with 20 seconds of pulses after the hold, do you mean:

3 sets of:

20 second hold
20 second pulses
20 second rest

You don't feel like more rest with strength stuff is better? Or trying to get some heart-rate benefits too?
Re heavy carries, my facet arthritis symptoms can be imagined as the opposite of a bulging disk. So I wind up using an artificial shallow flexion to prevent the facet surfaces from the grinding that occurs with a more neutral lower back. The carries seem to help most with shoulder packing and conservative shifts in center of balance.

My current set structure is:
20sec MVC followed immediately by
20sec pulses, followed by a minute rest. Two minutes rest between exercises.

Going forward I’ll be shifting the MVC hold time and pulse hold as a form of mild periodization - 20/20, 10/30, 30/10 with possible increases in total hold time.
 
Re heavy carries, my facet arthritis symptoms can be imagined as the opposite of a bulging disk. So I wind up using an artificial shallow flexion to prevent the facet surfaces from the grinding that occurs with a more neutral lower back. The carries seem to help most with shoulder packing and conservative shifts in center of balance.

My current set structure is:
20sec MVC followed immediately by
20sec pulses, followed by a minute rest. Two minutes rest between exercises.

Going forward I’ll be shifting the MVC hold time and pulse hold as a form of mild periodization - 20/20, 10/30, 30/10 with possible increases in total hold time.
Thanks for the response, that makes sense.

And I look forward to hearing how the periodisation impacts your training.
 
Thanks for the response, that makes sense.

And I look forward to hearing how the periodisation impacts your training.
I hope it’ll have a similar outcome to the use of random ladders and other means of reducing the ‘repeated bouts effect’. You can only do the exact same thing for so long and then you start stalling/going backward.
But I’m not ambitious enough to make a lot of changes. On top of that a lot of the sideways strategies I’ve tried to pair with basic isos haven’t panned out very well.
 
Found this after you replied to my bullworker question on another thread. Very interesting indeed. Do you think 20 secs of isometric holds to be the best? I seem to remember 7 seconds being the holy grail last time I read anything about it?!
 
Found this after you replied to my bullworker question on another thread. Very interesting indeed. Do you think 20 secs of isometric holds to be the best? I seem to remember 7 seconds being the holy grail last time I read anything about it?!
Start with 8-12 sec and work up from there. Using an exertion pattern that cues to a normal inhale/exhale cycle, it is possible to exert longer that you can on one long Valsalva (which is not good for you anyway). One could probably come close to a 30 sec hold at Maximal Voluntary Contraction, and maybe a bit longer.

It requires about 3-5 sec to develop peak force production although a long term goal is to shrink that as much as physiologically possible. And then as the muscle and nervous system become acclimated to isometric exertions, you’ll find it is possible to use more force over a longer time span. For me it took about 6 weeks to really feel like I could stick a shovel in it, when I started it was more like a spirited scrape on rocky soil or clay.

This sensation improved over a 3-4 month period, so I often tell folks getting into this to trust the process and be patient. The first few weeks won’t feel very comfortable and only marginally effective.
 
Start with 8-12 sec and work up from there. Using an exertion pattern that cues to a normal inhale/exhale cycle, it is possible to exert longer that you can on one long Valsalva (which is not good for you anyway). One could probably come close to a 30 sec hold at Maximal Voluntary Contraction, and maybe a bit longer.

It requires about 3-5 sec to develop peak force production although a long term goal is to shrink that as much as physiologically possible. And then as the muscle and nervous system become acclimated to isometric exertions, you’ll find it is possible to use more force over a longer time span. For me it took about 6 weeks to really feel like I could stick a shovel in it, when I started it was more like a spirited scrape on rocky soil or clay.

This sensation improved over a 3-4 month period, so I often tell folks getting into this to trust the process and be patient. The first few weeks won’t feel very comfortable and only marginally effective.
Just to add to this, use those beginning weeks to lock in good posture / form on each exercise too, cause it’s good to feel comfortable when you start to ramp up the effort!
 
I tested my deadlift today.

I’m 65kg and pulled 110kg x1.

It was heavy but form was good etc.

Tried 120kg but couldn’t get it off the floor.

Could prob do 112.5kg.

I am 35 and haven’t done a bar and plates deadlift since I was about 28 (7 years ago) when I worked up to 137.5kg x 1 over about 6 weeks.

I also prob weighed between 72kg to 74kg then.

And no heavy weightlifting since then either.

So… I’m not sure if the current 110kg pull is any good or not!

It didn’t make me want to start powerlifting again though.

Sorry Miller, I will start my own log and stop posting in yours all the time!
 
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