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Barbell Not a Romanian Deadlift.

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JeffC

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The Romanian Deadlift is a very specific Competition Lift assistance exercise. Some lifters will pull to the Pockets Position or the Dip Position depending on their style. The Stiff Leg Deadlift is a strength/hinge exercise, most resembling a Kettlebell Swing, and Deadlift assistance. I don't know why it is not recommend as a Swing strengthening exercise.

Why does it bother me so much when people call a Stiff Legged Deadlift a Romanian Deadlift?

RDL: Where It Came From, How to Do It

The Romanian Deadlift

Lessons from Romania: Nicu Vlad at the Olympic Training Center

Romanian Deadlift Exercise Demo Video and Info

Stiff Legged Deadlift
Stiff-Legged Deadlift Exercise Demo Video and Info

Both awesome exercises, but very different performance and purpose.
 
@Geoff Chafe
Thanks for posting that; I was not aware of the "real" RDL or the origin story.

Unfortunately, the incorrect usage is so universal, it almost makes more sense to come up with a new name for the less common real RDL than to try to educate people on the correct usage. For instance, I've given up objecting when people refer to doing anything with a 20s work/10s rest interval scheme as "Tabata."
 
@Steve W. If I do Stiff Leg Deadlifts in my program, or post on my log, I just call them RDL for clarity. Unless I am Olympic Lifting.

Yeah, any sort of interval training is referred to as Tabata now.
 
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Interestingly, I used to have more of a stiff legged deadlift style swing until Brett Jones pointed out that's not quite right on the forum.
(and also addressed it in this article: The Perfect Kettlebell Swing: Is There Such a Thing?).
It's more of an isolation move, but its a good one for flexibility and extra strength off the floor for DL. For some builds it might be similar to a swing, but it sounds like that's not the ideal based on the article.
 
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I always thought RDLs are the same movement like a coventional DL (same knee angle) just starting at the top and not touching the floor at the bottom and that Stiff Leg DLs are the same as RDLs (starting at top, not touching the floor), but with completely locked out knees during the whole movement.

Good to know :)
 
@Kettlebelephant That's a Straight Leg Deadlift. You can do Stiff or Straight Leg Deadlifts from the floor, Hang, Rack, or Blocks depending on posture, arched or neutral, and flexibility.
 
So the only difference between these two is that in the SLDL, you lock out your knees at the top while in the RDL you don't. Am I getting that right?

If so, I don't see why such an extremely subtle difference would make one into a Competition assistance lift and the other into a simple hinge/strength exercise. Other than simply the fact that RDLs comes from an actual O-lifter and tradition is tradition I suppose. Am I missing something here?
 
@305pelusa An RDL is the Second Pull. You are building positional strength, ingraining Bar path and balance, and drilling double knee bend. Vertical momentum. A Pull is not a Deadlift. A Clean/Snatch Deadlift is the same bar path, and ending in the Power Position, but starting from the floor. The first and Second Pull.

It is not tradition. It works. It is a staple exercise like a Clean/snatch Pull, Back/front Squat, Power Clean/snatch, and hang Clean/Snatch. Dragomir is credited with creating it, but I am certain Weightlifters have done this drill as long as someone cleaned or snatched a barbell. Dragomir just introduced it to the Americans.

A Stiff Leg Deadlift is a hinge. You push the hips back. You extend the hips. Lowering the bar as deep as possible. Horizontal momentum like a Swing.

Have you ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect? There is a lot more going on during the Second Pull than meets the eye. The Snatch is the most studied human movement with volumes written on a lift that takes a fraction of a second to complete.
 
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Have you ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
0_o whoah I hadn't heard about it but I see what you're implying. All I was asking is to get a better feel for the difference between the two; I don't practice either, I know that. It's just for information. No idea why you think I'm implying I know more than you. Sorry for the bother Geoff.
 
@305pelusa You stated that the only difference, and extremely subtle difference. I wanted to clarify that what looks simple, to the let's say, the inexperienced, is actually complex.

I am guilty of Dunning-Kruger, where I am experienced in lifting or trades and I cannot under stand why people find it so difficult. When I am skilled at something, and it seems easy to me, but it is actually difficult. This theory works in reverse also.

I often work with inexperienced new trades people, and apprentices. I sometimes am baffled why some people just do not get it. They are not professional at all. I had an old school journeyman when I first started as an apprentice who said "Attention to detail, that is what makes you a professional." Those words have stuck in my head ever since. Those were powerful words to me. I try to instil that into people I interact with. I have to step back to see that I am very mechanically inclined and experienced in heavy industrial environments, and others are not. What seems easy to me, is actually a complex procedure that is difficult for someone on a lower skill level. There is always the safest way, the right way, the logical way, the best way, the easiest way, the cheapest way, only experience will teach you. Your experience, mistakes, and successes, or someone else's.

Another way I interpret the Dunning-Kruger effect is when you begin to grasp a subject, you think you are very knowledgable about, but you have really only scratched the surface. In reality you don't even know enough to know what you don't know.

I am sorry if I came across harshly. I was just trying to say what looks simple is not. Look at a Get Up. Easy, you stand up with a weight. When you learn about the Get Up in depth, and practice the Get Up, toward 1/2 BW or more, it is a very complex lift with a lot of fine points and important details.

Again I am not implying anything intentionally negative. I am far from a expert, just a student. I am not a writer and I am certain I could have worded my last post better.
 
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Wow. It is very hard to find consistent information on these variations as I start searching around. I think I'm having the same confusion as pelusa. Also, if something works but is not tradition, that sounds like a good reason for it to become tradition :)
 
@305pelusa You stated that the only difference, and extremely subtle difference. I wanted to clarify that what looks simple, to the let's say, the inexperienced, is actually complex.

I'm simply mentioning the difference between them (which I continue to argue is the top position). I'm sure the ramifications of such a difference might mean a variety of complex things (one is more applicable to weightlifting because it mimics such and such movement pattern better, etc). But that's not the point right? We are talking about how the differ from one another in performance; not in utility.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is when inept people don't realize their own ineptitude precisely because they are so inept. If you ask 10 people whether they are smarter than the average of that group, more than 5 will say they are. That's what the effect means. An overestimation of your own capacity.

I should mention that thinking something looks simple, when it's not, is not the same thing. Anything and everything is as infinitely complex as you want it to be. It's all relative anyways.

A Stiff Leg Deadlift is a hinge. You push the hips back. You extend the hips. Lowering the bar as deep as possible.
Don't you hinge in the RDL? Don't you push the hips back? Don't you extend the hips on the way up? How are these specific to the SLDL.
Also, you said you can do SLDLs onto blocks. So lowering as deep as possible isn't a requirement no?

Horizontal momentum like a Swing.

I see no horizontal momentum with the SLDL. And if there is some, it's marginal compared to the much larger amount of vertical momentum taking place.
Perhaps you mean something other than "momentum"?




Like you, I'm just a student. I know how much I don't know. You seem to know something. I'm just trying to understand.
 
@305pelusa, my understanding:

SLDL: hip hinge, no (or minimal) knee bend

RDL: knee bend and no knee lockout

RDL is a DL without the top and the bottom but fundamentally the same movement pattern as a DL, IMHO. SLDL is fundamentally different movement pattern.

-S-
 
@305pelusa, my understanding:

SLDL: hip hinge, no (or minimal) knee bend

RDL: knee bend and no knee lockout

RDL is a DL without the top and the bottom but fundamentally the same movement pattern as a DL, IMHO. SLDL is fundamentally different movement pattern.

-S-
Steve I just thought you were supposed to minimally bend the knees with the RDL. This makes sense now for sure. The RDL is simple honing in that middle DL range of motion.
 
@Steve Freides No knee bend, knees extended throughout,would be a Straight Leg Deadlift or Straight Leg Good Morning. Only bend at the hips. Tommy Kono staple hip flexibility and strength exercises, particularly Sumo Stance.

Stiff Leg DL- knee bend at the bottom, standing hard style at the top, same pattern as your Conventional Deadlift, Swing, or Good Morning

Romanian DL- double knee bend, slight knee bend at the bottom, rebend as you pull, ending in your Dip position, glutes tight, knees over toes, butt between ankles, the bottom of a dip is typically 3-4" below lockout for most people.
 
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Geoff has it right, although I'd say the rdl has more uses than strictly positional work for Olympic lifts. For an intermediate, or advanced lifter, it easily allows more pulling volume to be applied throughout a training week. Examples would be any HLM setup. Secondly, the rdl begins at the top, whereas the sldl begins on the floor and each rep is pulled from a dead stop. No stretch reflex with the sldl. Dan Green is a great example of these. Neither is better, but the sldl leaves your back brutally strong.
 
@Geoff Chafe - Good points all 'round. I like the D-K in reverse, also- never thought of it from that direction before. I guess another variation could be when someone is highly competent in some area(s), and therefore not generally "inept," but they believe that high competence automagically carries over into other areas where they actually are inept. With that blind spot in their skill set, they could fit the D-K model in that area. Just theorizing...in an area where I may be inept...
 
Greg has set me straight on a lot of things. When I first started reading his stuff I thought he was a bit overly pedantic. I now realize there is a reason for his wanting to be precise with terms. Olympic lifting truly is about being strong in the specific positions required for a correct lift. This point is missed by all those authors who have written articles claiming that the key to the US getting better at Olympic lifting is "just get strong." If you want to read a Greg Everett rant at its best just read his criticism of the "just get strong" crowd. And don't get him (or me) started on whether Olympic lifters should do low-bar squats.
 
The Romanian Deadlift is a very specific Competition Lift assistance exercise. Some lifters will pull to the Pockets Position or the Dip Position depending on their style. The Stiff Leg Deadlift is a strength/hinge exercise, most resembling a Kettlebell Swing, and Deadlift assistance. I don't know why it is not recommend as a Swing strengthening exercise.

Why does it bother me so much when people call a Stiff Legged Deadlift a Romanian Deadlift?

RDL: Where It Came From, How to Do It

Thanks for this.

I was lucky enough to learn Olympic lifting, and the proper RDL, from Jim Schmidtz, the author of the first article.
 
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