Nutrition Not gaining during a bulk

[JustWeaver]

I've been eating roughly the same foods for about a month now in an attempt to bulk but my weight is continuing to hover just around 183lbs.

When I first started this I shot up from 170 to 180 within about two weeks and I got MASSIVE strength gains (I'm a rookie in the gym and this was after a short cut) then it just stopped there. Any tips on how I can improve?

One photo below is what a typical day looks like in the gym then the other is my usual eating habits. That all comes to around 3100 calories. Sometimes I'll eat more than that in the form of rice crisps or something of the like.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

If you gained 10 lbs in 2 weeks, that was mostly water weight and gut content as you would have had to eat and EXTRA 35,000 calories to gain that in actual muscle/fat. My point being, don't use that weight gain to judge anything since.

In order to gain more, you will need to consume more. Try eating 3500-3600 calories, and check again in 2 weeks to see if the scale is moving up.

 

[LukeV]

when in doubt, add a gallon of milk a day (GOMAD). not long term, just to get the scales moving. then go back to a modest (~500 cal) surplus

 

[Antti]

On a quick glance the diet looks all right but it's impossible to say without knowing your activity levels etc.

I would recommend a strength training plan that's more focused on bigger compound exercises like the powerlifts. Do a search on the forum for 5*5, Faleev, power to the people, reload, or such.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

When I first started this I shot up from 170 to 180 within about two weeks and I got MASSIVE strength gains (I'm a rookie in the gym and this was after a short cut) then it just stopped there. Any tips on how I can improve?

"The General Adaptation Syndorme"

Hans Selye, M.D.,PhD came up with "The General Adaptation Syndrome in 1923.

It was essentially based on illness.

One of two thing occured. either the body adapted and overcame the illenss or an individual would die.

Covid is an example.

"The General Adaptation Syndrome" applies to the majority of things in life; such as Diet and Periodization Strength Training.

Gaining and Losing Weight

"The General Adaptation Syncrome applies to a Weight Gaining or Weight Loss Diet.

An increase in calories initially produces Weight Gain.

A decrease in calories initially produces Weight Loss. '

However, eventually the body adapts to the new calorie intake and Weight Gain or Weight Loss stops; dies.

MATADOR Weight Loss Study

This research detetermined weight loss occured for approximatly two week, Then stopped.

The reason was that in two week, the body decrease it's Metabolic Rate to match the lower calorie intake.

Gaining Weight

The same concept applies to Gaining Weight. After approximately two week of being in Calorie Surplus, the Metabolic Rate adjusts to the Higher Calorie Intake; Weight Gain stops.

Calorie Rotation

The MATADOR Study determined that steady long term Weight Loss was better maintain by...

1) Decreasing Calorie for Two Weeks; followed by.,..

2) Increaseing Calories for Two Weeks.

This cycle was was continually alterned and maintained until the Goal Weight was achived.

Manipulating Metabolic Rate

The underlying mechanism for this method was that increasing calories for Two Weeks, increased Metabolic Rate.

The Two Week increase in calorie intake was then followed by Two Weeks of a decrease in calorie intake.

The decrease in calorie intake combined with the increase in Metabolic Rate ensured more weight loss.

Applying The Same Concepts for Gaining Weight

Gaining Weight essentially work the same way.

1) After an increaes of calories for Two Weeks above Calorie Maintenance, for Weight Gain...

2) Decrease calorie intake for approximately Two Weeks

This Cyclical Dieting approch promotes Weight Gains.

Bodybuilder's Bulk And Cut

The MATADOR Diet reinforce the Bodybuilder anecdotal method that has worked for decades; Bulk and Cut.

Yo-Yo Dieting

The MATADOR Diet is essentially a "Planned Yo-Yo Diet".

The majority of individual who go on a Weight Loss Diet become frustrated and quit.

These individaul then go back to their normal higher calorie diet after being on a lower calorie diet.

Research shows that these individual gain back the weight they lost, plus even more weight.

Reverse Dieting

Dr Layne Norton's (PhD Nutrition, Pro Natural Bodybuilder, Ranked National Powerlifter) referes to the Cyclining of Calores up and down for losing body fat as "Reverse Dieting".

Caloric Rotation Percentages

Drs Layne Norton and John Ivy, independent of each other, determined that decreaseing and increaseing calories should be around 20% of Maintence. Maintence is the number or calorie consumed where body weight remains the same.

Calories Rotation For Losing Weight/Body Fat

Decrease calorie approximately 20% below Maintence Calorie.

Then increase calorie back to Maintenance after Two Weeks.

Then repeat cycle above.

Calorie Rotation For Weight Gain

Increase calories approxiately 20% above Maintenance.

Then drop calorie back to Maintenance after Two Weeks.

Then repeat cycle above.

Cliff Notes

The above information provides a genaral overview.

There are some additional factors that apply, as well.

 

[Mirek]

Boneless, skinless chicken breast? Light tuna? Whole 100% of whatever?

Here's how you eat for bulk:

“For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don’t care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that s*** down and eat. That’s your breakfast.”

At this point I’m thinking this guy is nuts. But he’s completely serious.

“For lunch you’re gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don’t want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don’t care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can’t let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter.”

“For dinner you’re gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don’t like sardines, don’t put ’em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that f@#$er up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that s*** over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the s*** out of it.”

“Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that f@#$er. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals.”

This guy is in a zen-like state when he’s talking about this.

“Now you’re on the clock,” he continues. “After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you’re full. Don’t listen to that s***. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I’m telling you now, you’re going to get three or four pieces in and you’re gonna want to quit. You f****** can’t quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

And if you can’t finish it, don’t you ever come back to me and tell me you can’t gain weight. ’Cause I’m gonna tell you that you don’t give a f*** about getting bigger and you don’t care how much you lift!”

Source: 37 Tips and Tales from Dave Tate | T NATION

 

[Antti]

Boneless, skinless chicken breast? Light tuna? Whole 100% of whatever?

Here's how you eat for bulk:

“For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don’t care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that s*** down and eat. That’s your breakfast.”

At this point I’m thinking this guy is nuts. But he’s completely serious.

“For lunch you’re gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don’t want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don’t care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can’t let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter.”

“For dinner you’re gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don’t like sardines, don’t put ’em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that f@#$er up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that s*** over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the s*** out of it.”

“Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that f@#$er. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals.”

This guy is in a zen-like state when he’s talking about this.

“Now you’re on the clock,” he continues. “After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you’re full. Don’t listen to that s***. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I’m telling you now, you’re going to get three or four pieces in and you’re gonna want to quit. You f****** can’t quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

And if you can’t finish it, don’t you ever come back to me and tell me you can’t gain weight. ’Cause I’m gonna tell you that you don’t give a f*** about getting bigger and you don’t care how much you lift!”

Source: 37 Tips and Tales from Dave Tate | T NATION

That is always such a beautiful tale that can't fail to stir my heart.

And for anyone unaware, the person giving the advice was extremely successful both in his sport and bodyweight manipulation, both up and down in short timeframes.

 

[silveraw]

Lookup svunt shakes. If you do it right you might be able to double your calories pretty easily.
It goes down a lot easier than a gallon of milk

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

svunt shakes.

John McCallum's Get Big Drink

John McCallum ‘Get Big Drink’ - Physical Culture Study

The quest for greater size has long plagued both the 'hard gainer' and the muscle bound hunk. At times it can seem that the need to ingest greater calories is almost as taxing as our workouts. A predicament that John McCallum, the focus of today's article, was keen to address. As you'll read...

physicalculturestudy.com

Back in the mid 1960's, McCallum wrote Bodybuilding articles for York Barbell's "Strength and Heatlh" magazine; a sibling of "Muscular Development" magazine, that is still around today.

McCallup formular of gaining weight weight drink was...

• First take a days worth of protein power and add it into a blender. Say roughly 6-8 scoops of protein (Whey/Casein/etc.).
• Next take two quarts of whole milk and dump them in the blender.
• Following this add in 2 cups of dry skim milk.
• Now mix in 2 Raw eggs.
• After mixing in the protein, milk and eggs, put 4 tablespoons peanut butter into the blender
• Next add a half a brick (.875 quarts or 462 grams) of chocolate ice cream followed by
• 1 small banana
• 4 tablespoons malted milk powder (17g protein)
• 6 tablespoons of corn syrup

All of this drink was to be consumed in addition to your regular meal.

Half And Half

As a kid, prior to consuming McCallum's mix, I'd drink a quart of Half and Half Cream in one sitting.

Super Squats

McCallum was and advocate of what is now termed, "Super Squats"; one set of 20 Repetition, performed with what you'd usually perform a set of 10 Repetition with.

Individuals were suppose to work up to 150% of their body weight with 20 Repetions in the "Super Squat" Set.

My Experience

1) Consuming the Get Big Drink in additon to regular meals was a nightmare.

At the end of one day, I was beyond full and forced it down, only to throw it up ever once is a while.

With that said, consuming more caloires work, duh.

2) "Super Squats". The best I could manage was Squatting with a little over 130% of my body weight for 20 Repetitions. It worked but was a nightmare.

Once after performing that set, I layed on the floor softly chanting. My lifting buddy ask me what I was chanting.

I replied, "I am not going to throw up", repeated.

Overview

1) "Super Squats" definitely works. However, they are incredibly hard. The thought of every doing them again make me want to throw up.

2) Dave Tate is one of my favorites.

His recommendations for gaining weight works, as does any diet that increases caloric intake.

Essentially, McCallum's early plan is the same as what Dave recommened; what I referr to as the...

"Hog-A-Sarus Diet"

In the early days of Bodybuilding, the Bulking Diet Plan revolved around, "Eat until you puke, then eat some more." I am a former memeber, in good standing with that club.

With that said, here's the issue with that approach based on...

The Research

Research indepenent of each other from Drs John Ivy and Layne Norton have determined that when consuming more than a 20% increase in your current calorie intake, a greater increase in body fat occurs.

The MATADOR Weight Loss Study

This study supports Ivy and Norton's findings when it come to weight loss. A dramatic decreased in calorie intake, decreased a greater percentage of muscle mass and less body fat is lost.

This plan revolves around Calorie Rotation. After two week of a deficit of calorie intake, a surplus of calories is consume to increase Mebablic Rate. In doing so, some weight gain occurs but once going back on the Caloric Deficit of the diet, that gained weight plus more is lost.

The Rotation Diet

This Weight Loss Diet came out in the 1980's.

The concept was right. However, the caloric intake on the diet was insanely too low.

Body For Life

Bill Phillips, who wrote the book and had "Muscle Media 2000"; one of the best muscle magazine there was.

Phillips book is a great piece of work.

Phillips weight loss plan included Calorie Rotation along with a from of High Intensity Interval Training; which was at that time something new.

Gaining Weight vs Losing Weight

The concepts and fundamentals of Gaining Weight are essentially the same as Weight Loss.

With Weight Loss, the objective is to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss.

With Gaining Weight, the obective is to maximize an increase in muscle mass and minimize a gain in body fat.

For Gaining Weight, you just reverse what you do for Weight Loss.

If you do it right you might be able to double your calories pretty easily.
It goes down a lot easier than a gallon of milk

Caloric Density

What even "Easier" for increase calories is a method used by...

Bill "Peanuts" West

West was one of the "Original Westside Training" members.

West didn't have much money. So, to gain weight, West drank Peanut Oil; a tablespoon is 14 gram of fat/126 calories.

My Metabolic Condition

As I have metioned on StrongFirst in multiple post, due to a metabolic condition, I combined Intermittent Fasting and the Ketogenic Diet.

I over did it and lost 17 lbs in 35 days; averaging a 1/2 pound loss per day.

Gaining The Weight Back

After stabilizing my metabolic condition, I decided to gain the weight back. However, I needed to remain on the Ketogenic Diet.

That meant that the majority of my increased calorie would need to come from Fats.

I purchase MCT Oil, Avacoda Oil, Oliver Oil, Coconut Oil (Liquid and Solid) etc.

I'd have a shots of 28 gram of fat three a day (additional 756 caories a day). I ended up gaining most of the 17 lbs that I had lost.

Comparing McCallum's Get Big Drink and Bill "Peanuts" West Method

McCallum's and Tate's method are similar; you end up feeling stuffed and bloated.

Drinking Fat is much easier, faster. I found having a "Chaser" after drinking the fat made it go down better; a sip of a diet drink worked.

A Note of Caution

Drinking Fat needs to be something you ease into; allowing your body to become acclimated to it,

If you start off drinking too much fat, you end up spending more time in that bathroom that you like.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Have mentioned this several times prior on the forum, but had great success over a one year period using the latest recommendations re protein timing in a bolus at 4hr intervals. Nutrition increase of about 25% calories / day using 40g protein with 3 Tbsp PB, 2Tbsp oatmeal, 1 cup Soymilk. Additional serving of fruit or other lean carbs, fat macros about 20-25%, very restrictive trying to get it any lower. Keeping fat macros low allows a little more time to put on mass before the inevitable fat accumulation becomes noticeable, maybe an additional week at a whack.

A key element for me was to reduce training volume somewhat, not on resistance training but did reduce supplemental aerobics and conditioning.

Was able to run load increases for 2-4 weeks at a whack before my belt got snug. Then 1-3 weeks of pull back to get the pants to fit.

Heavy and long leg work is 100% essential to gaining a good amount of mass, the legs lead the rest if a bunch of weight is in the plan - fill the cup from the bottom up.

Three things can happen:
-you get bigger overall and strength increases
- you just get bigger around the waist. Reduce fat macros (maybe) and train harder
-you don't get bigger. Eat more.

 

[silveraw]

West didn't have much money. So, to gain weight, West drank Peanut Oil; a tablespoon is 14 gram of fat/126 calories

Oh man… reminds me of the older advice for fish oil when it was the hot new supplement. Keep taking more until it is too much. Then back off a bit. You will know when too much is too much.

I do see most of the "smart guys" out there today (the PhD's who lift crowd) really recommend pushing carbs as much as possible for maximizing muscle growth during a bulk. But oddly I don't see people slamming chocolate milk post workout any more like everyone seemed to do back in my martial arts days.

John McCallum's Get Big Drink

Huh.. Looks like somebody stole a recipe from someone else! To be fair to mr. svunt, he didn't name it, he just shared a very similar version on his blog.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Genuine question here... is there any actually benefit to putting on “weight” as opposed to muscle? I knew a few dudes who would “bulk” and just get fat then cut and end up like 3lbs heavier. But the process was like gain 20 cut 17.
Then I worked with a natural Moroccan bodybuilder and he never “bulked” he would just eat more protein and workout more when he was trying to bulk before a show pre-cut.
My question is whether just gaining weight, which is probably fat is actually beneficial to muscle building in any way if yours just going to lose it later anyhow and if a slow/steady approach with would yield the same overall muscle in approx the same time frame.
I’m not good at math but if a lb of muscle is 3500 calories and you wanted to gain 2lbs of muscle a month wouldn’t it be possible to just up calories like 2-300 per day to hit that marker?

 

[North Coast Miller]

Genuine question here... is there any actually benefit to putting on “weight” as opposed to muscle? I knew a few dudes who would “bulk” and just get fat then cut and end up like 3lbs heavier. But the process was like gain 20 cut 17.
Then I worked with a natural Moroccan bodybuilder and he never “bulked” he would just eat more protein and workout more when he was trying to bulk before a show pre-cut.
My question is whether just gaining weight, which is probably fat is actually beneficial to muscle building in any way if yours just going to lose it later anyhow and if a slow/steady approach with would yield the same overall muscle in approx the same time frame.
I’m not good at math but if a lb of muscle is 3500 calories and you wanted to gain 2lbs of muscle a month wouldn’t it be possible to just up calories like 2-300 per day to hit that marker?

If a good part of it is muscle, say 50/50, then it comes in handy for a lot of physical endeavors that involve manipulating objects in space. It works against you when you have to manipulate primarily yourself.

Case in point a year and half ago was backpacking with my big-daddy luxury family camping pack. Basically I carry everything but other peoples personal gear and sleeping bags - over 90lbs. At 52 but weighing over 205 the pack was a joke where in years past it felt like a demon on my back after a few miles.

MTI also did some rucking eval and noted heavier total BW positively corresponded to better performance, was one of the most durable indicators.

In general though I'd say hell no. Get your bodyfat down around 20 or less and added mass is a good anchor for health and retained strength through down times and illness. If carrying a bunch of inactive mass (fat) at any weight then more of the same is not helpful.

 

[Deleted member 316]

Eggs I tell ya. Eat them, drink them. Just pound em back.

 

[silveraw]

Genuine question here... is there any actually benefit to putting on “weight” as opposed to muscle? I knew a few dudes who would “bulk” and just get fat then cut and end up like 3lbs heavier. But the process was like gain 20 cut 17.

That is what is called in the lifternetz "a dirty bulk". It works... But like you noticed it adds a lot of fat. GOMAD and SS was once the general recommendation for gaining weight and it resulted in a lot of fat new lifters. They were supposed to do a cut afterwards, but that didn't happen for many people.
Adding and losing lots of fat repeatedly is one of the worst things you can do to your body. There is a whole body of research demonstrating the metabolic damage that yo yo dieting causes. Every time you do it, it gets harder to lose the fat again because your body gets better at holding onto it. (Layne Norton's Post on it. ) Or you can also look at recent photos of Dave Tate... The guy who's bulking plan was listed earlier, but I'm not willing to say that is completely fair to use as a comparison.

Then I worked with a natural Moroccan bodybuilder and he never “bulked” he would just eat more protein and workout more when he was trying to bulk before a show pre-cut.

The more popular approach nowadays is more like that. They increase their calories using macros that promote muscle growth, eg more protein and carbs. But they add calories at a level that allows for ample muscle growth, without extra nutrients for excessive fat growth. So not tripling their calories with pizza and olive oil sandwiches.

To echo what @kennycro@@aol.com said regarding the newer bulking techniques, this video is very informative. While not specifically addressing "dirty" and "clean" bulking, they do debate an interesting concept of P-Ratios, or how much muscle compared to fat you gain. You seem to gain less and less muscle the fatter you are. So in my view, it would make sense to avoid fat gain to maximize muscle gain.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I never understood the concept of bulk and cut cycles opposed to slowly boosting over time.

Admittedly you have to "cut" from time to time even on a slow bulk because it is too difficult to fine tune calories for a perfect slow increase. Deliberately ignoring fat accumulation and dealing with it later just means you had to work harder eating more + work harder leaning out.

The toughest part of any gain is keeping the heat on for the demand for more muscle growth. Lacking that you guarantee fat accumulation no matter how lean your bulking calorie load.

 

[silveraw]

I never understood the concept of bulk and cut cycles opposed to slowly boosting over time.

A lot of these newer bulking cycles are a lot slower than the more traditional approach. Dr Norton's cycle is usually only 500 calories above maintenance for 4-6 weeks followed by a short 2 week cut of 500 below maintenance.

The RP approach is just .5% bodyweight gain for 6-16 weeks. For a 200lb person that is just a pound a week.

I'm sure there are people that still do the "35lbs in 6 weeks" approach though.

The toughest part of any gain is keeping the heat on for the demand for more muscle growth. Lacking that you guarantee fat accumulation no matter how lean your bulking calorie load.

Yeah, it is weird learning about how your body adds on fat and muscle. The more fat you have, the more your body favors increasing fat over muscle tissue no matter how much volume you throw at it.

 

[North Coast Miller]

A lot of these newer bulking cycles are a lot slower than the more traditional approach. Dr Norton's cycle is usually only 500 calories above maintenance for 4-6 weeks followed by a short 2 week cut of 500 below maintenance.

The RP approach is just .5% bodyweight gain for 6-16 weeks. For a 200lb person that is just a pound a week.

I'm sure there are people that still do the "35lbs in 6 weeks" approach though.


Yeah, it is weird learning about how your body adds on fat and muscle. The more fat you have, the more your body favors increasing fat over muscle tissue no matter how much volume you throw at it.

Those #s are pretty close to what I use left to my own devices. A lot of a bulk cycle for me is led by the training, not the diet.
I have a plan for the diet, but if my training slacks off am not gonna just keep shoveling calories.

When I was getting my best results I could actually feel myself getting larger almost daily. Start out in the AM and by 2pm my clothes would fit different as I top off the tanks. A few weeks of that flush feeling put together and you know you're biggering nicely. Give the midsection a squeeze once a week or so - "keep it up or take a break"

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I do see most of the "smart guys" out there today (the PhD's who lift crowd) really recommend pushing carbs as much as possible for maximizing muscle growth during a bulk.

Smart Ketogenic Guys, PhD Who Lift

One of the issue with many "Smart Guy" PhDs who lift and push carbohdyrates is that many lack knowlege when it come to Training on a Ketogenic Diet.

Not only do that lack the book smarts, they have no practical experience with it.

Anecdotal Data

1) Bill "Peanuts" West

As I noted in a previous post, Bill West got his "Peanuts" nickname from drinking Peanut Oil to gain weight back in the 1960's.

As the story goes, West didn't have much money so he decided to drink Peanut Oil.

West bulked with this method and was one of was one fo the strogest on the "Orginal Westside Powerlifting" team.

My Personal Experience

I have posted this information multiple times.

Due to a metabolic condition, I went on the Ketogenic Diet and Intermittent Fasting in 2016. I dropped 17 lbs.

The Ketogenic Diet helped. Howevever, mainly it was because I dropped my calorie intake by only eating two meals a day.

Gaining The 17 lb Back

After losing the weight (which was not my objective), I decided to gain the weight back.

Since I was on the Ketogenic Diet, that meant that I was limited to 50 gram of Carbohydrate per day.

My Protein intake was limted to 25% or less of my Daily Intake.

The only method left to increase my caloric intake was Fat.

I increase my meals back to three a day.

I added more Fat to my meals and had what I term as "Fat Shots"; MCT Oil with Avocado or Liquid Coconut Oil, three times a day, between meals. The three "Fat Shots" alone increase my daily intake by 756 calorie.

Adding to that was my third meal with lots of fat.

In doing so, I gained back the 17 lbs.

Research on Gaining Weight On a Ketogenic Diet

1) There is very little research on how to gain weight on a Ketogenic Diet.

Prior to my going on a "Ketogenic Gain Weight Diet", I research how to do it and make it work.

There is virtually nothing on it. All that I had was the anecdotal Bill "Peanuts" West data.

The majority of information on the Ketogenic Diet and belief is that it is a "Weight Loss Diet".

With that said, ....

Calorie Count

The bottom line is that no matter what Diet you are on, Calories Count.

If you consume more calories, even on a Ketogenic Diet, you will gain weight.

If you decrese your calorie intake on any diet, you will lose weight; Mark Haub, MS Nutrition Instructor at Kasas State, demonstrated that. Haub lost 27 pound on the Twinkee Diet.

Lack of Knowledge

The majority of "Smart Guys" have little to no experience in how to gain weight, let alone how to train on a Ketogenic Diet.

As Dr John Berardi, PhD Nutrition, once commented, "It is hard to address and provide any information on something you have little knowledge or personal experince in."

Ketogenic Diet Training

A secondary issue is that most individual don't understand how to write and perform a program that is specific for individual on a Ketogenic Diet.

This has been addressed in previous post.

The key is to understand the...

Three Energy Systems

1) Phosphagen Energy System

This system is primarly used with Maximum Strength, Power and Speed Training. Repetition Sets that are low and take 15 seconds or less employ this system.

That means individual on a Ketogenic Diet or the Standard High Carbohydrate Diet will perform equally as well.

2) Glycolytic Energy System

Sports and Activities that are over 30 seconds and up to around 2 minutes need and utilize more glycogen, carbohydratres.

With that said, research by Rachael Gregory indicated that Athletes on a Low Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet, performed equally as well; once they adapted to the Lower Carbohydrate/Ketogenic Diet.

A Low Carbohydrate Diet, CrossFit

A low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet combined with six weeks of crossfit training improves body composition and performance

A low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet (LCKD) is a popular approach to weight and fat loss. CrossFit is a high-intensity power training (HIPT) type exercise for all levels of age and fitness that has gained recognition as one of the fasting growing sports in America. No previous research has been...

commons.lib.jmu.edu

This is an interesting research article. As someone on Keto, I'd like to belive it but...

1) Based on other research, it does not make sense.

2) From my personal experience, it is contra-indicated.

Bodybuilding

This fall more into the Glycolytic Energy System.

Based on reseach and my personal experience, Cluster Hypertrophy Training is effective at "Gaming" Hypertrophy Training.

Cluster Sets ensure Hypertrophy Training is maintained in the Phosphagen Energy Stystem.

Cluster Hypertrophy Set Training research by Dr Jonathan Oliver demonstrated this produce "Functional Hypertrophy"; athletes were able to maintain/increase Power and Maximum Power while increasing Muscle Mass with this method.

Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy alone increase Muscle Mass at the expense of Power and Strength.

Oxidative Energy System

Most of the research on the Ketogenic Diet revolves around it effectiveness with Endurance Athletes; their interest in more in maintain an lower body weight.

Take Home Message

1) Lack of Knowledge

a) Very few individual understand what a Ketogenic Diet. I didn't initially.

b) Very few can maintain it. Any Diet that is extremely restrictive is hard to adhear to.

2) Gaining Weight On Keto

a) Most view it as a "Weight Loss Diet".

b) Most are "Fatphobic", they view is as unhealty.

3) Ketogenic Diet Strength Training

The issue is that most don't know how to write a Ketogenic Diet Strength Training Program for that employs the right Energy System.

Training on a Ketogeinic Diet require a different approach.

It took me a year of researching that to figure it out.

 

[North Coast Miller]

But oddly I don't see people slamming chocolate milk post workout any more like everyone seemed to do back in my martial arts days.

"Slowly raises hand"

I think its pretty well established you need a positive energy balance and a good amount of leucine rich protein. Whether you're in excess in carbs or fat doesn't really matter, but my personal experience is higher carb ratio allows one to gain more lean mass over a longer time frame and shrinks the consolidation phase where you're dump the part of your gain that is fat.

In an exercising individual it is virtually impossible for excess carbs to be converted to fat, but...the less fat you consume the tougher it is to gain weight anyway. Pretty much any fat you accumulate was fat you ate, that's the important thing to remember.

Interesting covergence of factors, training with longer working sets or otherwise increasing metabolic stress (Clusters, Rest/Pause, DropSets etc) not only increases HGH to a much greater degree, but simply increasing glucose mobilization that results in lots of lactate accumulation (fueling primarily fast twitch as opposed to steady state pyruvate) stimulates the Cori Cycle, which is itself a potent anabolic signalling pathway.

This also selectively depletes glucose in the FT fibers, which again is another potent anabolic signal.

None of this stuff is a mystery or in dispute from a scientific standpoint, put it all together with a healthy dose of muscular tension and you get bigger muscles.