Nutrition not gaining weight with 4K calories.
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Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
How old are you and how long have you been following this exercise plan @sebape ?
When I was younger I could eat much more than you're eating every day and not gain anything, either muscle or fat, now I'm older if I ate like that I would pack the weight on very quickly.
It's not all that uncommon for people on a new program to shed fat & gain muscle in the first 2-3 months of some exercise plans, so the scales don't always show a gain.
As the others have said it seems you're doing too much training and not getting enough of your calories from fat. Fat and carbs are protein sparing as outlined by @North Coast Miller
When I was younger I could eat much more than you're eating every day and not gain anything, either muscle or fat, now I'm older if I ate like that I would pack the weight on very quickly.
It's not all that uncommon for people on a new program to shed fat & gain muscle in the first 2-3 months of some exercise plans, so the scales don't always show a gain.
As the others have said it seems you're doing too much training and not getting enough of your calories from fat. Fat and carbs are protein sparing as outlined by @North Coast Miller
mprevost
Level 7 Valued Member
Fair enough. If you are not gaining weight you have to:
a: Reduce caloric expenditure
b: Increase calorie intake
c: both
You can learn a lot by looking at a person's goals and what they are doing. Are their actions consistent with their stated goals? Anna was pushing in this direction. If your primary, most important goal is to gain weight and muscle, your actions are not entirely consistent with that goal. If you have too many goals at one time, you have to accept slow progress or else you have to put some goals on the back burner in order to progress faster in your primary goal. I think you already know what to do.
I continue to make these kinds of mistakes myself. Dan John likes to say that if you are self coached, you have a fool for a client. I am no exception.
Substitute beef, pork, and fish for the chicken.
Substitute whole milk or cream for the fat-free milk.
Fat-free foods should be banned.
Chicken isn’t food, it’s what food eats. Just say no.
Your diet is severely lacking in fats.
-S-
william bad butt
Level 7 Valued Member
9% body fat and can eat 4000 calories a day and can't gain weight. I'm the opposite of you. I can gain a few pounds just by reading a restaurant menu.
I know this isn't additive, but I am very jealous of you!!
I know this isn't additive, but I am very jealous of you!!
sebape
Level 4 Valued Member
it would take too long to go through every single excerice and set/rep. but basically i jump rope as warmup for 10ish mins followed by high intensity calisthenics strength/endurance training like weighted pullups, broad jumps, pistol squats, wall walks, weighted dips/pushups. i have been lifting weights too on leg days like squats and deadlifts.
this is what my schedule looks like:
monday: back/bicep
tuesday: chest/tricep
wednesday: legs
thurday: shoulders
friday: abs/pullups/dips
i have 30-60 sec rest periods and a routine takes about 1 hour. and i most often train to/past failure.
after i'm done training i still like to stay active like taking long walks, or training on my handstand and L-sit etc.
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sebape
Level 4 Valued Member
i
i'm 26 years old and been training for 1 years soon. i was really skinny when i started so i definetely haven't lost any fat. i did gain around 8kg of muscle in the 5 to 6 first months. i'v come to the conclusion now that i'm going to start eating for fat and see if that helps.
sebape
Level 4 Valued Member
thanks everyone for your help, it's been very much appreciated but i'm going to try @Steve Freides advice and eat more fat. it sounds logical and i have actually been told to eat more fat before.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@sebpape
Some interesting readings:
- training "frame" and programming:
The Perfect Calisthenics Workout Routine
Increasing Frequency: How to Work Out More Without Overtraining
-weight gain / hypertrophy:
Natural Muscle—How Much Can You Gain…Really?
5 Unique Push-Up Variations to Help You Increase Strength & Size
The “Diesel 20”: Add Twenty Pounds of Muscle in One Year —Using Only Bodyweight
The Ten Commandments of Calisthenics Mass
The Ten Commandments of Calisthenics Mass: Part II
However, this is fairly simple:
weight gain = more calorie intake than calorie expenditure
weight loss = more calorie expenditure than calorie intake
I hope you'll find your information in this thread. I admit I am a bit like you. I have to eat tons of food to build 'lean muscle'. Otherwise, I "only" gain strength (which is not so bad actually ! )
Kind regards,
Pet'
@sebpape
Some interesting readings:
- training "frame" and programming:
The Perfect Calisthenics Workout Routine
Increasing Frequency: How to Work Out More Without Overtraining
-weight gain / hypertrophy:
Natural Muscle—How Much Can You Gain…Really?
5 Unique Push-Up Variations to Help You Increase Strength & Size
The “Diesel 20”: Add Twenty Pounds of Muscle in One Year —Using Only Bodyweight
The Ten Commandments of Calisthenics Mass
The Ten Commandments of Calisthenics Mass: Part II
However, this is fairly simple:
weight gain = more calorie intake than calorie expenditure
weight loss = more calorie expenditure than calorie intake
I hope you'll find your information in this thread. I admit I am a bit like you. I have to eat tons of food to build 'lean muscle'. Otherwise, I "only" gain strength (which is not so bad actually ! )
Kind regards,
Pet'
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
I suspected you'd be in your 20's. Man your metabolism is still running at very high rate, so it will be tough for you to add muscle until your metabolism slows down. It's not impossible for guys like you but you really have train smarter rather than harder & get plenty of rest.
I've seen plenty of guys in the same boat over the years I've spent working in & managing gyms. They almost always take the same approach as you ie they try to to do way too much and sabotage their own efforts in the process. Most of those guys (whether they continued training or not) didn't really fill out until their early to mid 30's.
Looking over your training schedule (which seems to be an improvised bodybuilding routine) it seems to me you are doing way too much and not getting nearly enough rest. I'd be inclined put you on a traditional barbell program like Starting Strength or a similar 5*5 scheme and expect to see some noticeable results around the 8-10 week mark and by 4 months you'll start noticing the changes you want.
Rather than thinking of individual muscle groups just do the big compound lifts to the plan and get plenty of rest and up your calorific intake to suit.
Those bodybuilder splits work fine for more advanced lifters and especially favour those on steroids. Regular humans respond better to a much more tempered approach.
Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
Interesting. Never heard that before.
Reminded me my uncle, who after eating plenty of chicken in a family gathering, wondered aloud about state of world were there no chickens in it.
@Abdul Rasheed, that saying is rightly attributed to Pavel Tsatsouline - I give him credit now, belatedly, but I didn't bother because so many of us here know of his dislike for chicken.
I offered it earnestly - I don't care for chicken, either. In my case, it seemed to be on the menu every day when I was a child because my father liked it, and I had enough to last me a lifetime.
I do eat it once in a while now, because our oldest son, who is currently living at home, seems to have inherited my father's taste for it, and my wife is willing to make it for him. If I am doing the cooking, it is never on the menu.
-S-
I offered it earnestly - I don't care for chicken, either. In my case, it seemed to be on the menu every day when I was a child because my father liked it, and I had enough to last me a lifetime.
I do eat it once in a while now, because our oldest son, who is currently living at home, seems to have inherited my father's taste for it, and my wife is willing to make it for him. If I am doing the cooking, it is never on the menu.
-S-
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
I'm in agreement with others, youth could account for much of what we see on your food log. That spread would have been a snack for me back in the day, sometimes it still is!
How do you do that without coconut coffee and ketone supplements? That's something for the team keto to figure out - get lean with the high carb, high protein, low fat diet - not the usual nutrition narrative.
And reducing your energy expenditure, absolutely and your dietary protein intake......
Your protein is very high, it seems. .
If your numbers are right, protein is 358g. There's high, then there's high and
That's, er, a lot, er I think. (Hint: it's huge).
2g per 1kg of bodyweight of 81kg is 162g....that's a high estimation some may argue . Anywhere between 80 - 160, say. Anyway, what remains needs to go somewhere. For you that's 196 grams of it, or in calories nearly 800 or more.
It muddies the picture because not all those calories will be used for energy. They have an energy value but that does not mean the body can use it and there is a cost to energy conversion if it does need it.
All foods have these outcomes, used for biological purposes, used for energy, stored for later use or eliminated...
Opinions are divided on the fate of excess protein. Some say all excess protein energy is utilised in some form but it is a matter of context. And some argue that the conversion of protein to glucose to fat is very rare. But in quantities that you consume? I have no clue. Certainly protein to carb but given your high carb status too, where does it all go? And you are not fat, so.....
Rather than considering the theoretical arguments, the evidence for you is: you are not putting on weight and you are lean, certainly not fat, at least in terms of measurable body fat.
So how's your number twos? How much do you pee?
The chances are, balancing both views, youre wasting energy intake by not making that energy available. So you appear, in numbers, to be in energy excess but with energy conversions and elimination slip back to roughly where you need to be for maintenance and energy balance. Maybe. Total speculation. Something to ponder....
Urine analysis.. High urea, a clue to suggest you are wasting it.
Don't read urine analysis strips yourself because there are other values to consider. Get some professional interpretation if wanting to pursue it. (Really, high urea is a marker and if so better check your kidney and liver function while you are at it.....get a doc, or registered nutritionist).
Or, take that for what it is if you feel healthy otherwise and cut that protein back - how that is calculated varies- and up your carbs or fat or both.....hmmmm, yum, you have plenty of room for some ice cream. And evaluate.
Protein is not necessary for additional energy needs, I'd argue, for you that is. You want to use energy not use further energy to get more energy. And you could be, could be, flushing it down the toilet.
We are into the carb v fat warzone now. I sit firmly as a peacemaker - it doesn't matter. (Fire in the hole). You have a lot of carbs it seems, more fat then perhaps.
The only thing to add with some surety is that you eat a lot of protein and your current plan isn't matching your goals after 2 months. Could be something to do with it. Bit of a paradigm shift.
(If you have any signs and symptoms other than just not adding weight then best see a doctor if it's concerning you at any time - lethargy, aches, light-headedness, pale skin and anything else - as there could be many, many non-dietary reasons lacking weight gain with excess energy intake. Head scratching problem solving for us nutters to ponder a nutritional puzzle is one thng, not so if the root cause is a health problem).
How do you do that without coconut coffee and ketone supplements? That's something for the team keto to figure out - get lean with the high carb, high protein, low fat diet - not the usual nutrition narrative.
And reducing your energy expenditure, absolutely and your dietary protein intake......
Your protein is very high, it seems. .
If your numbers are right, protein is 358g. There's high, then there's high and
That's, er, a lot, er I think. (Hint: it's huge).
2g per 1kg of bodyweight of 81kg is 162g....that's a high estimation some may argue . Anywhere between 80 - 160, say. Anyway, what remains needs to go somewhere. For you that's 196 grams of it, or in calories nearly 800 or more.
It muddies the picture because not all those calories will be used for energy. They have an energy value but that does not mean the body can use it and there is a cost to energy conversion if it does need it.
All foods have these outcomes, used for biological purposes, used for energy, stored for later use or eliminated...
Opinions are divided on the fate of excess protein. Some say all excess protein energy is utilised in some form but it is a matter of context. And some argue that the conversion of protein to glucose to fat is very rare. But in quantities that you consume? I have no clue. Certainly protein to carb but given your high carb status too, where does it all go? And you are not fat, so.....
Rather than considering the theoretical arguments, the evidence for you is: you are not putting on weight and you are lean, certainly not fat, at least in terms of measurable body fat.
So how's your number twos? How much do you pee?
The chances are, balancing both views, youre wasting energy intake by not making that energy available. So you appear, in numbers, to be in energy excess but with energy conversions and elimination slip back to roughly where you need to be for maintenance and energy balance. Maybe. Total speculation. Something to ponder....
Urine analysis.. High urea, a clue to suggest you are wasting it.
Don't read urine analysis strips yourself because there are other values to consider. Get some professional interpretation if wanting to pursue it. (Really, high urea is a marker and if so better check your kidney and liver function while you are at it.....get a doc, or registered nutritionist).
Or, take that for what it is if you feel healthy otherwise and cut that protein back - how that is calculated varies- and up your carbs or fat or both.....hmmmm, yum, you have plenty of room for some ice cream. And evaluate.
Protein is not necessary for additional energy needs, I'd argue, for you that is. You want to use energy not use further energy to get more energy. And you could be, could be, flushing it down the toilet.
We are into the carb v fat warzone now. I sit firmly as a peacemaker - it doesn't matter. (Fire in the hole). You have a lot of carbs it seems, more fat then perhaps.
The only thing to add with some surety is that you eat a lot of protein and your current plan isn't matching your goals after 2 months. Could be something to do with it. Bit of a paradigm shift.
(If you have any signs and symptoms other than just not adding weight then best see a doctor if it's concerning you at any time - lethargy, aches, light-headedness, pale skin and anything else - as there could be many, many non-dietary reasons lacking weight gain with excess energy intake. Head scratching problem solving for us nutters to ponder a nutritional puzzle is one thng, not so if the root cause is a health problem).
sebape
Level 4 Valued Member
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
Yup. When I ran 10-12 km every day, I would eat an entire cake every night - loved the Entenmann's brand, and just ate an entire box worth of cake every night after dinner, and I wasn't a kid, either - mid-30's.
-S-
How to gain weight?
- "armor building" training protocol - lots of reps with heavy weight. My vote would go to anything that has squat, especially back squat.
- lots of food. On training days, add more carbs, cut fats. On the non-training days, do the opposite. Have adequate amount of protein.
- lots of rest
- minimal or no "cardio" such as low slow distance running.
- "armor building" training protocol - lots of reps with heavy weight. My vote would go to anything that has squat, especially back squat.
- lots of food. On training days, add more carbs, cut fats. On the non-training days, do the opposite. Have adequate amount of protein.
- lots of rest
- minimal or no "cardio" such as low slow distance running.
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