Kettlebell Number of Swings in a Set - Is Fewer Always Better?

[Steve Freides]

I'm curious how each of you finds the number of swings you do in a set, and if you vary it at all.

I ask because I sometimes (not always) find that a longer set with a moderate weight lets me establish a nice rhythm and really groove my technique in a way shorter sets don't always allow.

I've been doing 10's, but today, instead of 10's on the :60, I did 15's on the :75 and really liked it. I chose this for no reason other than I was short on time and could get in more swings this way, but I found myself really doing better and better swings as each set wore on.

The swing isn't always a big part of my training, and I'm sure that some of what I'm experiencing is because of my relatively low level of skill at the swing - it takes me a while to find my groove. But I'm curious as to what others think. My current swing training is a mix of 36 kg for 2-handed and 24 kg for 1-handed.

Thanks in advance for your comments and observations.

-S-

 

[Kettlebelephant]

I did a workout of the 10K swing challenge a few times and must say that the sets of 25 and 50 feel very good. I know almost all of the SF stuff is about tension and hardstyle, but the long sets are really relaxing in a special way. There's something nice about finding the right groove and the perfect balance between enough power to get the KB to chest level and at the same time saving as much ernergy as possible.

 

[Steve Freides]

Thank you, @Kettlebelephant - for 15 reps with this weight, I didn't feel like I was holding anything back, was really trying to be explosive but felt like I didn't really get into being explosive until the middle of the set.

-S-

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

I have been working up....slooowly it goes, from swings w/ 16 kg to using 24 kg. I found that 10 was just too many and my grip was failing badly enough it was really impacting the power of my swings. So I cut back to 6 and am now ding 8 reps, good solid ones to chest height

 

[TravisDirks]

I went through the 520 program twice, which features sets of 25 or 30 2H swings with a lot more rest than normal. I loved it. I found that knowing I had a mandotory very long rest, and that I only got between 3 and 6 sets allowed me to really keep the explosiveness up. It also strongly encourages you to find relaxation where you can - seeking that pulsed tension feeling.

You'll be sucking wind though. The first minute of catching the breath was something else! (I used my S&S weight bell for this(currently 32 for me). I guess it's a swing version or 20 rep squats program only you have to do all your breathing at the end )

 

[Anna C]

My impression is that 5-8 heavy, or 5-10 moderately heavy swings will use mostly the PCr (alactic) energy system. Sets with 15 or more are going to be glycolytic. Unless the weight is very light (which is relative to one's strength and aerobic capacity), then it may be more aerobic. Of course it's not that cut and dry, but I try to keep energy systems in mind when determining number of swings, snatches, etc. in a set. @aciampa is the expert here...

 

[Jeffro]

For skill practice, I find it helpful to vary. Yesterday I was on the 1oth set of 10x10, the last set felt good, HR was in check, so I extended it. Had one of those aha moments re: my knees on rep 17 or so. Been doing 10x10 exclusively, and feel the extended set helped "trigger" my realization. Today, even looking for the same thing, I couldn't find that same mind/body connection until about the 13 or 14th rep.

 

[offwidth]

Typically I only do S&S
Single arm 10 switch at top without stopping then 10 on the other arm. If I'm feeling good I may switch twice again. So 40 total without a break.

 

[ShawnM]

Once I had the 24 under 5 minutes I jumped up to the 32 for normal S&S on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Every other day I was doing 250 reps of 2 hand swings with the 24 broken into reps of 15 and 35 every other minute. I found the longer sets with a lighter weight relaxing and not as much of a slugfest as the 10x10 single arm with a 32.

 

[Anna C]

Typically I only do S&S
Single arm 10 switch at top without stopping then 10 on the other arm.

You know that's not S&S, right? S&S is 10 R, rest. 10L, rest. 10R, rest. etc. for 10 sets.

 

[offwidth]

Thanks Anna. You are correct. And yes I do know that. I probably should not advertise it as such.
I do keep within a MAF range so I'm not sure what the rest between arms would do. Any advice on that would be welcome. (My limits are the TGU, but that's another topic)

 

[Anna C]

Ah, good. Swing heavier, rest more. That's my advice.

 

[rickyw]

I am currently doing heavy 1 handed swings (40kg) in sets of 7 reps as a finisher to RoP clean and press ladders. Personally, I like it more than 10 reps per set. I did a research protocol that called for 30 reps in a set, 15 per arm and I was gasping by the end of each set (5 minute rests in between though). I dreaded those sessions.

@Steve Freides , I'm intrigued...what do you do for training with the swing generally not being a huge part of it?

 

[taedoju]

@Steve Freides I look at it two ways :

-> what's the goal ? if its strength : 3- 5 heavy , if its hypertrophy 8 - 12 swings, if its power endurance then as suggested per SS

-> its doesn't matter ... just swing away to the goal reps are achieved

 

[North Coast Miller]

Am speaking from having lower back issues, so this is where IMHO everyone that advances past a basic/intermediate understanding of fitness and exercise has to customize their program.
I tend toward longer sets in general, 50 reps or more.

If the back feels loose I'll go for more weight and fewer reps with two hands on a 54 or 32. If my back is tight I switch to one hand alternating with a lower weight at 18 or 16kg, with sets as long as 100reps. Occasionally I'll run one hand with the 24kg for something in the middle - still 25 reps or so/hand.

Even if planning some heavier weight I always start out with a few light ones.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

what's the goal ? if its strength : 3- 5 heavy , if its hypertrophy 8 - 12 swings, if its power endurance then as suggested per SS

Ballistics play by a different rule. Pavel talks about this in his Fast Tens article. General rule would be to take the recommended repnumber for whatever you want to achieve with grinds and double it for ballistics.
6-10 heavy, 16-24 for hypertrophy would be more accurate (if you even can use the word accurate here).

 

[Steve Freides]

5-8 heavy, or 5-10 moderately heavy swings will use mostly the PCr (alactic) energy system. Sets with 15 or more are going to be glycolytic. Unless the weight is very light (which is relative to one's strength and aerobic capacity), then it may be more aerobic.

24 kg feels pretty light to me. I think total session length has a bearing here, too - I was finished this session 4:15 after I started it.

For skill practice, I find it helpful to vary.

Me, too - that's why I tried something different yesterday.

@Steve Freides , I'm intrigued...what do you do for training with the swing generally not being a huge part of it?

Generally, I press a kettlebell and deadlift a barbell as my strength training. I walk a few miles every day, and I stretch.

@Steve Freides What's the goal ?

Two goals, both experiments because I feel great with a combination of strength training, stretching, and walking. Part one is to see if I feel even better with regular swings, and part two is to see if body composition, my deadlift, and other, vaguer health goals are better met with regular swings.

@rickyw, to return to your question, I'll give you my training day yesterday:

6:30 AM - short walk with my wife with Buteyko breathing: walking pause practice.

8:30 AM - 3 mile walk to and from the grocery store with Buteyko breathing: walking shallow breathing practice.

10:00 AM - 60 x 1h 24 kg kettlebell swings as described above: 15's on the :75, finished in 4:15, nose-breathing for all recovery, focus on waiting until the last minute to break at the hips, quickest turnaround at the back, driving the hips fully and explosively while I project force into the kettlebell, float and repeat.

Taught.

1:00 PM - Press - following a PlanStrong program I've drawn up for myself, averages about 80 presses per week and I spread it out so that I'm pressing almost every weekday.

1:30 PM - Deadlift - Daily Dose, Day #11. 275 lbs. conventional, double overhand grip, 5 singles on fairly short rests, whole thing took maybe 3-4 minutes.

Taught until 7:30 PM.

And I stretch and do mobility work in a GTG fashion throughout the day, little bits here and there.

-S-

 

[banzaiengr]

I haven't done swings in a while. When I was doing them in a S&S like workout I would take whatever weight I was doing with 1H 10x10 and once per week use that weight and do 3x25 2H. I think that was an Al Ciampa thing, so I'll give credit where credit is due.

 

[Steve Freides]

I haven't done swings in a while. When I was doing them in a S&S like workout I would take whatever weight I was doing with 1H 10x10 and once per week use that weight and do 3x25 2H. I think that was an Al Ciampa thing, so I'll give credit where credit is due.

I love the feeling of heavier 2h swings, so I mix in 36 kg 2h swings with my 24 kg 1h swings, all generally 10's. My thinking is that a number of powerlifters report heavy 2h swings as a good complement to one's barbell deadlift. I realize 36 kg probably isn't heavy enough to make a lot of difference just yet, but again, this is an experiment, so that's why the heavier weight and not a higher rep count for me for 2h swings.

-S-

 

[banzaiengr]

I love the feeling of heavier 2h swings, so I mix in 36 kg 2h swings with my 24 kg 1h swings, all generally 10's. My thinking is that a number of powerlifters report heavy 2h swings as a good complement to one's barbell deadlift. I realize 36 kg probably isn't heavy enough to make a lot of difference just yet, but again, this is an experiment, so that's why the heavier weight and not a higher rep count for me for 2h swings.

-S-

Roger that Steve, I think it was a whole other outcome we were looking for with the once per week sets of twenty-five. I was just throwing that out there in case someone wanted a once per week glycolytic rush. Could be a nice change up from lower rep heavy two handers for deadlift support, a la 15 rep deadlifts. Different strokes for different folks. : )