Nutrition Nutrition During a Deload

[BJJ Shawn]

Hello All,

Is there a consensus for how to eat during a deload week when trying to bulk? I have never done a program with built in deloads, and never TRIED to gain weight, so these are both new to me. I will be hitting my first deload week soon, and I am currently trying to bulk up as much as possible so I'm not too concerned with gaining fat along with muscle.

I'm pretty sure I should keep eating the same amount, but I recall reading on here someone posted about doing 6 weeks bulk, followed by a 2 week mini-cut, before going back to a bulk. I don't know if that is to try and limit body fat gain, or can just hormonally boost muscle gain, so I figured I'd ask you guys. I know in Easy Strength Dan John and/or Pavel talk about bulking being most effective immediately after cutting, so maybe that's the idea behind this?

What do you all do that has worked best for you?

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Hello All,

Is there a consensus for how to eat during a deload week when trying to bulk? I have never done a program with built in deloads, and never TRIED to gain weight, so these are both new to me. I will be hitting my first deload week soon, and I am currently trying to bulk up as much as possible so I'm not too concerned with gaining fat along with muscle.

I'm pretty sure I should keep eating the same amount, but I recall reading on here someone posted about doing 6 weeks bulk, followed by a 2 week mini-cut, before going back to a bulk. I don't know if that is to try and limit body fat gain, or can just hormonally boost muscle gain, so I figured I'd ask you guys. I know in Easy Strength Dan John and/or Pavel talk about bulking being most effective immediately after cutting, so maybe that's the idea behind this?

What do you all do that has worked best for you?

You talking a clean bulk or a dirty ? Dirty would be ice cream, sugar loaded breakfast cereal, pizza, etc.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

You talking a clean bulk or a dirty ? Dirty would be ice cream, sugar loaded breakfast cereal, pizza, etc.

I'm about 170lbs and have been eating about 3500 calories a day, with very low sugar, 200-300 grams of protein, and filling in the rest with sandwiches, rice, veggies, etc. I may add on more food though, as I am not really gaining anything, but it's still hard to tell as it's only been a month and my weight fluctuates 3-5 pounds a day so I'm not sure if I've gained or not. I would call it clean, as I don't eat a lot of sugar or junk food, mostly whole foods, but I do eat a lot of bread right now to get easy carbs.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

I'm about 170lbs and have been eating about 3500 calories a day, with very low sugar, 200-300 grams of protein, and filling in the rest with sandwiches, rice, veggies, etc. I may add on more food though, as I am not really gaining anything, but it's still hard to tell as it's only been a month and my weight fluctuates 3-5 pounds a day so I'm not sure if I've gained or not. I would call it clean, as I don't eat a lot of sugar or junk food, mostly whole foods, but I do eat a lot of bread right now to get easy carbs.

Rephrase: You OK to bulk with crap or are you sticking to real food?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

a deload week

Periodization Training Cycles

A well written program revolves around Periodization Training Cycles.

After the final week of a training program, a new Training Cycle is started with the load being progressively increased over 3 - 8 weeks; dependent you Training Age, how quickly adaptation occurs.

Once adaptation sets in, progress stops.

I am not really gaining anything,

Adaptation

If you're not gaining or losing weight, that means your Metabolic Rate has been reset to your present calorie intake.

To increase weight gains continues, you need to...

1) Increase you calorie intake approximately 20% above your 3500 daily intake. That would mean consuming around 4200 calories a day.

or...

2) Decrease your calorie intake for approximately 20% below your 3500 daily calorie intake. That would mean taking it down to around 2800 calories a day.

Your Metabolic Rate will adjust to the lo 2800 calorie a day.

Once that occurs, you increase you calorie intake back up.

This is the foundation for...

The MATADOR Diet (Minimizing Adaptive Thermogenesis And Deactivating Obesity Rebound) Study

This type of approach is essentially a Weight Loss or Weight Gain Periodization Training Plan; dependent on how it is planned and followed.

This method manipulates your Metabolic Rate to allow you to either Lose or Gain Weight.

The General Adaptation Syndrome

This is the underlying mechanism in which Periodization Strength Training and Dieting is based.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Rephrase: You OK to bulk with crap or are you sticking to real food?

I am willing to eat any way that I see results. However, my sport is not powerlifting, so after I bulk up I do plan to cut back down to my weight class and hopefully be at a better body fat% than before. I am NOT trying to only gain muscle, I'd rather gain too much fat and maximize muscle gain.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Periodization Training Cycles

A well written program revolves around Periodization Training Cycles.

After the final week of a training program, a new Training Cycle is started with the load being progressively increased over 3 - 8 weeks; dependent you Training Age, how quickly adaptation occurs.

Once adaptation sets in, progress stops.


Adaptation

If you're not gaining or losing weight, that means your Metabolic Rate has been reset to your present calorie intake.

To increase weight gains continues, you need to...

1) Increase you calorie intake approximately 20% above your 3500 daily intake. That would mean consuming around 4200 calories a day.

or...

2) Decrease your calorie intake for approximately 20% below your 3500 daily calorie intake. That would mean taking it down to around 2800 calories a day.

Your Metabolic Rate will adjust to the lo 2800 calorie a day.

Once that occurs, you increase you calorie intake back up.

This is the foundation for...

The MATADOR Diet (Minimizing Adaptive Thermogenesis And Deactivating Obesity Rebound) Study

This type of approach is essentially a Weight Loss or Weight Gain Periodization Training Plan; dependent on how it is planned and followed.

This method manipulates your Metabolic Rate to allow you to either Lose or Gain Weight.

The General Adaptation Syndrome

This is the underlying mechanism in which Periodization Strength Training and Dieting is based.

I am doing 5/3/1 and the two option in the program are 3 and 6 week cycles, followed by a deload week before starting the next cycle. I have gained considerable progress on the main lifts across the board in the last month, partially because I'm a beginner so I'm bound to see results no matter what I do. But even so, I have increased my estimated maxes across all lifts by 5-10% so I'm quite happy.

As for this MATADOR method, how quickly would one adapt? Before this last month, I have been eating 1800-2200 calories a day for the past 9 months and lost about 45 pounds, so this is the first time I've been eating at a neutral or positive calorie count in a long time. I might have gained some weight, but being only 4 weeks so far it's hard for me to really tell if it's just extra glycogen and gut content since it fluctuates so much.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

I am willing to eat any way that I see results. However, my sport is not powerlifting, so after I bulk up I do plan to cut back down to my weight class and hopefully be at a better body fat% than before. I am NOT trying to only gain muscle, I'd rather gain too much fat and maximize muscle gain.

Video has some language in it. You could also search bulking diets from Larry Wheels and Mark Bell. A clean version would be large amounts of beef, whole milk, eggs.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Ha, yes, I know about the easy ways to bulk, but my main question is whether you should eat like that even when you're deloading so you're not lifting much. I can eat like a pig, so I may start doing it for a short time, but does eating like that during a week of only light lifting help gain muscle or just make me fat?

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Ha, yes, I know about the easy ways to bulk, but my main question is whether you should eat like that even when you're deloading so you're not lifting much. I can eat like a pig, so I may start doing it for a short time, but does eating like that during a week of only light lifting help gain muscle or just make me fat?

I would not call it healthful, but would say you would gain some of both.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

...oes eating like that during a week of only light lifting help gain muscle or just make me fat?

Both

...like Don said.

Couch Potato Study

One study of Couch Potato's sitting around eating a surplus of calorie show an increase in muscle mass, as well as body fat.

The downside of the study was that the increase in body mass was approximately 20% muscle and 80% body fat.

20% Calorie Deficit or Surplus

Drs John Ivy's research and Layne Norton's, independent of each, determined that approximately a 20% decrease for Weight Loss ensure more body fat was lost and more muscle mass was maintained.

The same concept applies to gains in muscle mass. An increase of 20% of calorie above maintenance ensure more muscle mass is gained with a minimal amount of body fat.

 

[Hung]

You could also search bulking diets from Larry Wheels

...plus the roids cycle that he used during that time. Goodluck with the superdrol dosage.

 

[Antti]

Ha, yes, I know about the easy ways to bulk, but my main question is whether you should eat like that even when you're deloading so you're not lifting much. I can eat like a pig, so I may start doing it for a short time, but does eating like that during a week of only light lifting help gain muscle or just make me fat?

Eating over maintenance should increase your recovery. The deload is your recovery period. Do you want to increase your recovery and the efficiency of your deload?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I am doing 5/3/1 and the two option in the program are 3 and 6 week cycles, followed by a deload week before starting the next cycle.

Periodization Training

Essentially, Periodization Training Cycles have a Deload Programmened into them.

In a new Periodization Cycle, the first week of the program is something you ease into.

With each following week of a Periodization Training Cycle, the load (the intensity) of he train increases.

The final week is pushed near or to failure.

Then a new Periodization Train Cycle is begun.

This provide...

Active Recovery

This involves light, easy exercise that increase blood flow to the muscle; which promotes recovery.

5/3/1 Progression

This method should amount to each being similar to a Warm Up Sets that prepare you for you Top Set.

As for this MATADOR method, how quickly would one adapt? Before this last month, I have been eating 1800-2200 calories a day for the past 9 months and lost about 45 pounds,

General Rule

When it or something stop working, you have adapted and need to change something.

Evidently, it took you around 9 month before your Metabolism Adapted.

That is unusual. Most individual on a weight loss program adapt fairly quickly. Once they hit the wall, frustration sets in and they go back to their old diet.

They are then on the...

Yo-Yo Dieting

The decrease in calorie intake lowers their Metabolic Rate. The decrease in Metabolic Rate with going back on to their old eating habits compound the problem.

Then they gain the weight they lost back and often gain back even more weight.

The MATADOR Diet, Periodization Training and Bodybuilding Bulk/Cut Plan

These all fall into Yo-Yo Dieting and Training.

Only in this instance, your are manipulating Yo-Yo Dieting and Training (Periodization Training) to elicit a positive way to meet your objective.

My Ketogenic Diet + Intermittent Fasting Diet Experience

Due to a metabolic condition that I was diagnosed with, I incorporated both.

I end up lowing 17 lbs in 35 days before I adapted. Weight loss was not my intention.

I then decided to gain the weight back. Since I had to remain on the Ketogenic Diet, I dramatically increase my Fat/Calorie Intake to around 100 gram of Fat/900 calories a day.

I eliminated Intermittent Fasting of skipping breakfast, adding it back in.

I gained the weight back in approximately six weeks.

The initial weight loss and then weight gain occurred in the first two week before slowing down and finally stopping.

Thus, adaptation times vary. And once adaptation occurs, progress stops.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Eating over maintenance should increase your recovery. The deload is your recovery period. Do you want to increase your recovery and the efficiency of your deload?

Yes, yes I do.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Hello All,

Is there a consensus for how to eat during a deload week when trying to bulk?

There is a big difference between a deload week and detraining, continue eating for your gain.
At some point once you start putting weight on the gradual fat gain will become a thing, but the more gradual the gain the less of an issue. On a faster "bulk" I have been know to do cycles of between 2 and 4 weeks overeat, 2 weeks reduce. Repeat as needed.

Timing my protein into big spikes worked incredibly well for me, and still does.

Nutrition - Protein Pulsing and Pulse Feeding

This is interesting stuff. I've sent you some research on it Protein Pulsing This has to do the Refractory Period in Muscle Protein Synthesis. The Refractory Period meal timing is similar to a sponge. When the sponge is dry it soaks up more water. When the sponge is wet, very little...

www.strongfirst.com

 

[BJJ Shawn]

There is a big difference between a deload week and detraining, continue eating for your gain.
At some point once you start putting weight on the gradual fat gain will become a thing, but the more gradual the gain the less of an issue. On a faster "bulk" I have been know to do cycles of between 2 and 4 weeks overeat, 2 weeks reduce. Repeat as needed.

Timing my protein into big spikes worked incredibly well for me, and still does.

Nutrition - Protein Pulsing and Pulse Feeding

This is interesting stuff. I've sent you some research on it Protein Pulsing This has to do the Refractory Period in Muscle Protein Synthesis. The Refractory Period meal timing is similar to a sponge. When the sponge is dry it soaks up more water. When the sponge is wet, very little...

www.strongfirst.com

After seeing that thread, I have been organizing my meals into 3 big meals without snacks, every 6 hours or so with 75-125 grams of protein per meal. 6 am, 12 pm, and 6pm, 1000+ calories per meal and in the morning and night I add whey to my meals as well. So far, I don't feel like I overeat (I'm never bloated or feel like I should have stopped eating sooner, and I'm often hungry again within a few hours), but I may have to find a good way to add more if I don't see more movement on the scale soon. I DO see hypertrophy in my upper body, so I know I'm going in the right direction, I just didn't want to mess it up during my scheduled deload week. I'm still under 40, so can't say I'm over the hill yet, but I'm finally ready to try and add some mass after shedding so much excess fat.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

75-125 grams of protein per meal.

Protein Per Meal

I doubt that you need more than 75 gram of Protein Per Meal.

The amount of Protein Per Meal for producing Muscle Protein Synthesis is driven by the amino acid...

Leucine

Leucine trigger that anabolic response.

Individual in your age range, need 3.0 or 4.0 gram or more of Leucine Per Meal/Serving to elicit that Muscle Protein Synthesis.

Percentage Of Leucine

1) Whey Protein

Whey Protein's composition is approximately 10% Leucine.

Thus, if Whey Protein was solely consumed, 40 grams of Whey would yield 3.6 gram of Leucine.

2) Whole Food Proteins

Most Whole Food Protein's composition is around 8% Leucine (meats and dairy).

That means approximately 45 grams of protein would yield 3.6 gram of Leucine.

With that said, it is questionable if you need 125 gram of Protein Per Meal.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Protein Per Meal

I doubt that you need more than 75 gram of Protein Per Meal.

The amount of Protein Per Meal for producing Muscle Protein Synthesis is driven by the amino acid...

Leucine

Leucine trigger that anabolic response.

Individual in your age range, need 3.0 or 4.0 gram or more of Leucine Per Meal/Serving to elicit that Muscle Protein Synthesis.

Percentage Of Leucine

1) Whey Protein

Whey Protein's composition is approximately 10% Leucine.

Thus, if Whey Protein was solely consumed, 40 grams of Whey would yield 3.6 gram of Leucine.

2) Whole Food Proteins

Most Whole Food Protein's composition is around 8% Leucine (meats and dairy).

That means approximately 45 grams of protein would yield 3.6 gram of Leucine.

With that said, it is questionable if you need 125 gram of Protein Per Meal.

My next question then, is it harmful? I usually eat something like a turkey sandwich with 1/2lb of meat, a cup of yogurt or cottage cheese, and a 25 gram whey shake made with whole milk. It's a good size of food to fill me up, has a good mix of macros, and I mainly add the whey in because it's 30 minutes after my workout so I just want to make sure I have some quickly digesting protein in there with the rest.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

My next question then, is it harmful?

No, not if you don't have any kidney issues.