all posts post new thread

Off-Topic Nutrition, weight, and S&S

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
I presume health is your main goal. According to the height and weight you provided your BMI is 22. Generally speaking it is a good idea to have a BMI of 20-25 - if a person has a lot of muscle then the muscle can mean they could end up near or over 25.

Your bulging tummy and a history of back injury might mean a postural issue (a guess which might be incorrect, not a diagnosis). However, it is enough to suggest that you should consider getting some input to ensure that your alignment is good as you progress through S&S. Build up S&S always so it feels easy, pushing can set a person up for injury.

S&S is a good choice as a program but it is important to make sure you know all the details to get the best out it. This include the form and motions in the exercises and so on.
Good luck.
The injury occurred because I was doing swings incorrectly and was moving up to the 70 lb bell. After the injury I went to a StrongFirst certified trainer and he showed me the right way to do it. I've also been to the doctor and physical therapist and am cleared to train. If I get to the point of transitioning to the 70 lb bell, I may see a trainer again to help me with that transition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oab
Is it the industrial processing that is the problem specifically? We have some super tasty cold pressed rapeseed in the UK.
I'm particularly interested as this is my go to dairy free replacement for butter.
Thanks.
Yes, it's the main problem - fats contained in these oils are too volatile to stand industrial processing. In fact, they are volatile enough that even squeezing the seeds too hard (meaning anything more powerful than a hand operated press) can damage them and create harmful compounds (not to mention there's often quite a loose standard on what can be labeled "cold pressed", I don't know about British law but where I live it's essentially meaningless). So unless it's also labeled as artisanally/traditionally pressed and is awfully expensive, I would say it's no better than any other vegetable oil.
 
I’ve found rather than like strictly counting calories I have a list of things I need to eat a given meal. Ex: (12 oz chicken, 1 cup rice or 1lb ground beef 6oz potatoes). I have a list of those and if I pick one for each meal from that list I’ll hit my macros for the day. It’s boring. But simple.
Essentially, this is a varied form of calorie counting; which works.

It remind me my sister-in-law who had food exchange cards for her diet.

The food cards were colored. She could exchange any yellow card for another yellow card.

What you have is a Plan and follow it.
 
BMI

As I am sure you know, this is one of the most useless method there is.

As you noted, ...
Waist measurement (at iliac and umbilicus) is a good and easy method - American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists Guidelines has 37" and 31" inch as a measure for health (althought for some reason, they say the US and Canada can go up to 40"/35"). Equal to or greater than that, you are you're high risk of developing health issues (and are considered to have abdominal obesity). It is recommended to pair BMI with waist measurement, but I don't see how BMI contributes much useful information...
 
Is it the industrial processing that is the problem specifically? We have some super tasty cold pressed rapeseed in the UK.

Dunno about the processing. In terms of energy....and as it always tends, excess of it and obesity..

Polyunsaturated fats (pufas) are essential fatty acids. They are necessary in our diet as they provide fat molecules that our bodies cannot make.
There are pro inflammatory and anti inflammatory types. Veg oils are pro inflammatory.

They have an energy value but they are not easily metabolised for energy to do work. They are vital for various biological processes.
I don't know about the processing.. is a processed oil better or worse, for health, than its unprocessed form? Dunno.

So it is a matter of how much. And dunno about the precise or otherwise ratio.

But, nonetheless, there is the view that in excess, veg oils, and sugar and salt, is a driver for obesity, given they are prevalent in many cheap convenient fast energy dense foods.

But, it is one variable in a complex genetic, socio-economic multi layered disease process.

As a single variable, excess veg oil being inflammatory and due to calorie excess, are then stored (metabolising incurs energy cost and not necessary as there is plenty of energy around)....and so, in part, explains perhaps why obesity and inflammation are synonymous with each other.

However, the complex organic chemistry is beyond me but in seeking explanation, I've yet to see detailed breakdown of this view...and it is one which drives the view that veg oil is toxic. I'd add the caveat that only in excess but where the point is between excess calorie and excess pufas is hypothesised and not elegantly explained, yet or refuted, yet. Toxicity is dose dependent.

Rapeseed oil v butter?
In the context that all veg oils are toxic then butter wins.
In the context of someone who generally isn't stuffing doughnuts and fizzy drinks, rapeseed oil is really nice as a salad dressing.

Moderation. Again. Wins the day.

My view. Other views are available ?
 
I don't know about the processing.. is a processed oil better or worse, for health, than its unprocessed form? Dunno.
I base my opinion on studies that show processed oils containing trans fats and other harmful compounds. So it's not just an issue of balance between the pro-inflammatory omega-6 and anti-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids - it's about a entirely new (practically nonexistent before the 20th century) type of fats that offer no nutritional value, and are harmful to your health. So it's not a question of how much, or precise ratio of this to that - the optimal dosage is zero.
 
I’d suggest eating slightly above maintenance. Maybe 500 cal if you’re strength training. If your weight starts to go up back off a little. If it stays the same and you’re getting stronger you’ve hit the sweet spot! This is like my new favorite thing I’ve learned in the last year. Getting leaner slowly but also building strength! My weight fluctuates 3-4 lbs day to day depending on sodium and water but damn, man. It feels good to be eating 3k cal now and staying the same weight instead of eating 1500.
This has been my exact experience.

I’m 34yo male 5’11” 205lb with a lean body mass around 160lb according to stomach and neck measurements and a naval method calculator. I’m up from 165lb with a 145lb lab mass in April.

I had been cutting calories for a year to get there and was pretty much perpetually getting only about 1500/day to include upwards of 5 BJJ sessions in a week. I constantly had small injuries and aches and pains and was in a bad mood at home.

In July I switched to 2500 then 2800 then 3000 and now 3300 calories as I’ve hit plateaus combined with a heavier double kb Clean and Press program and the results speak for themselves. Yeah I’m carrying a bit more body fat currently, but I’ve got more energy and my progress has been steady. I’m actually having to find ways to get enough calories which is a more pleasant alternative to starving going to bed at night.
 
I base my opinion on studies that show processed oils containing trans fats and other harmful compounds. So it's not just an issue of balance between the pro-inflammatory omega-6 and anti-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids - it's about a entirely new (practically nonexistent before the 20th century) type of fats that offer no nutritional value, and are harmful to your health. So it's not a question of how much, or precise ratio of this to that - the optimal dosage is zero.
I'm gluten intolerant and also struggle with normal size servings of dairy, so I eat very little processed food other than some (non-daily) gluten free and dairy free products. Which are super processed.
I understand the concept of zero portion size but I'm not sure I could live without fried foods, e.g. mushrooms, eggs, omelettes, stir fry, bolognese, chilli con carne, curry, etc.

What I don't know is how I can tell whether or not I'm struggling with inflammation.
 
So it's not a question of how much, or precise ratio of this to that - the optimal dosage is zero.

There may be some confusion here across the pond differences: canola oil is rapeseed oil.

Cold pressed rapeseed oil is not canola oil, no heat involved. No hydrogenation.

In UK foods containing hydrogenated fats must be labelled as such.

I'm only talking pufas not trans fats.

Canola oil was until recently banned in UK. Still the unhealthiest nation in Western Europe here in Scotland. So...no canola oil but plenty of obesity ?
 
This has been my exact experience.

I’m 34yo male 5’11” 205lb with a lean body mass around 160lb according to stomach and neck measurements and a naval method calculator. I’m up from 165lb with a 145lb lab mass in April.

I had been cutting calories for a year to get there and was pretty much perpetually getting only about 1500/day to include upwards of 5 BJJ sessions in a week. I constantly had small injuries and aches and pains and was in a bad mood at home.

In July I switched to 2500 then 2800 then 3000 and now 3300 calories as I’ve hit plateaus combined with a heavier double kb Clean and Press program and the results speak for themselves. Yeah I’m carrying a bit more body fat currently, but I’ve got more energy and my progress has been steady. I’m actually having to find ways to get enough calories which is a more pleasant alternative to starving going to bed at night.
The beauty of this is if you ever want to cut you can drop 500 cal, still be eating 2800 and the body fat will melt off. It just gets to a point when the calories are so low that there is no where else to go!
 
The beauty of this is if you ever want to cut you can drop 500 cal, still be eating 2800 and the body fat will melt off. It just gets to a point when the calories are so low that there is no where else to go!
Exactly! 1200 calories would have been the next step down and you are basically falling apart with that small of portions and hard training
 
I'm gluten intolerant and also struggle with normal size servings of dairy, so I eat very little processed food other than some (non-daily) gluten free and dairy free products. Which are super processed.
I understand the concept of zero portion size but I'm not sure I could live without fried foods, e.g. mushrooms, eggs, omelettes, stir fry, bolognese, chilli con carne, curry, etc.

What I don't know is how I can tell whether or not I'm struggling with inflammation.
If you cannot eat dairy, there are still a lot of options for frying: coconut, peanut and olive oil, lard, tallow... basically anything that has been in existence longer than 150 years.
 
Polyunsaturated fats (pufas) are essential fatty acids. They are necessary in our diet as they provide fat molecules that our bodies cannot make.
There are pro inflammatory and anti inflammatory types. Veg oils are pro inflammatory.
I just wanted to add that replacing saturated fats with PUFAs has been shown to reduce cardiovascular disease risks, the studies looked at veg oils included in that as well as fish oils. I think you are right on about weight increase being why people think they are bad for you though.

 
1. Could you please point me to a Nutrition 101 article that could propel me in reaching the simple goal?
No. There is too much we don't know about nutrition. Read, try things, do something that works for you. "Simple" is reached through training, and the diet requirement is: Don't mess up your diet so much that it interferes with your training.

2. What should I do with my weight as I continue to train with the S&S routine? ... So my idea would be to press hard with my training, and just eat to maintain my weight around 160 lb. But then I've also read that this is a bad idea and bulking/cutting cycles are better. I honestly want the simplest, most maintainable plan, which is what I think keeping my weight static would be. ... What do you recommend?
Again, I don't think we can provide an answer for you. We can offer you a lot of opinions, though!

My personal experience is that, for most of us with modest body composition goals, "bulking/cutting" can happen without going crazy over either, e.g., you can lift and eat a little more, and put on a pound or two over the course of a couple of weeks, then you can continue getting on the scale every day and eat a little less and drop that pound or two, and repeat those mini-cycles. This approach is, IMO, simple.

-S-
 
  • Like
Reactions: ali
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom