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Barbell OHP Issues When I Go Heavy

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Steve Freides said:
And now for something completely different: :)

Get a coach. First, get medical clearance, then get a coach. Coach will help you figure out realistic goals, good paths to achieving them, point out changes you should make in your form, and more.

Too expensive? Meet only once every few weeks. Rather just do it yourself? Suck it up, buttercup. :). Remember that getting injured isn’t a problem, recovering is, and every recovery from the same injury is almost always worse in every way: takes longer and often it’s a little less complete each time.

-S-
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This ☝️

I see this sort of thing from lifters in my office all the time and it’s different for everyone.

Could be technique.
Could be a neck thing.
Could be a shoulder thing.
Could be a volume/programming thing.

Without knowing your history, it’s impossible to know which of those things it may be, so best bet is to get checked out by a GOOD PT who understands lifters and can help you pinpoint the source of the issue so you can develop a targeted plan to fix it.

Emphasis on GOOD PT, as most unfortunately have very little knowledge around strength training and the classic banded PT drills aren’t all that useful.
 
william bad butt said:
Its been a a year or 2 since I've done doubles pressing. I don't own a 44. I have a 40 and 48 though. I usually train much lighter though. I can't do many reps with the 2 big bells. Too hard. Right now I do some single bell pressing. On Sundays, at Planet Fitness with wife, Ill crank out reps with the 75 lb DBs. They aren't too heavy. I know it isn't true, but I find pressing a DB feels heavier than pressing a KB of the same weight. Standing press. Sets of 5. This is my primary form of overhead pressing at the moment.
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Feel free to shoot me down.

It sounds like you're working loads for overhead press are 140-185lbs, and this issue only pops up when you start working in that 225lbs range. Could it be that that's just too heavy relative to what you've adapted to train with in addition to everything else you're training? I guess I'm thinking that it seems to be load is the issue, not necessarily pressing itself since you can handle the press with what sounds like pretty decent volume, which would make me think either the load is too much, or your technique is changing with the load (so ... the load is still too much).

Another idea, still kind of related to the load, but this time the overall load on your shoulders... Since you were doing a lot of closed chain pressing + benching (everything barbell based) it was just too much closed chain work for that block and overstressing your shoulders. Right now, you're doing barbell bench + dumbbell press and sound symptom free, what if you flipped to dumbbell bench + barbell press and pushed the press while working on just reps with the dumbbells (flipping what it sounds like you're doing now). I find if everything is barbell my shoulders (and neck) get a lot crankier a lot quicker than if I'm doing, say, barbell bench + kettlebell press. Totally doesn't make sense if you want to be Mr Powerlifter, but it might be something to think about after this meet IF you do want to try barbell pressing again.

I don't speak any of this from science, just brostuff from working with myself and other (much stronger) meatheads.

Also, in general, I'm not a fan of the "oh if it hurts when X - just stop" when it comes to training. Training might require modifications, or temporarily modifying something, but we can continue training.
 
John K said:
It sounds like you're working loads for overhead press are 140-185lbs, and this issue only pops up when you start working in that 225lbs range. Could it be that that's just too heavy relative to what you've adapted to train with in addition to everything else you're training? I guess I'm thinking that it seems to be load is the issue, not necessarily pressing itself since you can handle the press with what sounds like pretty decent volume, which would make me think either the load is too much, or your technique is changing with the load (so ... the load is still too much).
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This is possible. Usually when I'm training the Press, I'm not benching. Those loads seem pretty reasonable.

John K said:
Also, in general, I'm not a fan of the "oh if it hurts when X - just stop" when it comes to training. Training might require modifications, or temporarily modifying something, but we can continue training.
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Me 2. I have stopped, but for a different reason. Focusing on powerlifting. I will continue to push to get stronger. People will advise to do volume, and I will. But 1 day I hope to be pressing 250 lb too. I have a lot more in me.
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Any chance you got a vid?
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@Mark Limbaga & All:

Here are 2 video's. 1 from the front and 1 from the back. This is my 1st time pressing and cleaning in many years. 134lb. I did this after a "fake powerlifting meet" where I really pushed myself. You can read about it in my "Last Man Standing" workout log. I am pretty beat up, sore, and exhausted in this video. But I figured I better do it now, because I have no interest in touching a barbell for a long time! I appreciate any thoughts you have on this. Let me know if the video doesn't work.

Regards,

Eric

Rear View:



Front View:
 
@Mark Limbaga I can see them; just have to click the "watch on youtube" link.

@william bad butt after reading some of the others' comments, I too, wonder if it's as simple as a load issue. Bear with me just a bit here.... Speaking from my own anecdotal experience, I know that if I just grab a weight or do a movement that loads me to where I have to strain a bit, other muscles outside of what's needed to complete the move kick in, mostly in/around my neck.

Bear in mind that you are far far stronger than me, so maybe take it with a grain of salt, but this is what has been helping me with neck tension from pressing. I just use a light enough weight that I can do the movement as slow as needed to insure my neck isn't tensing up. I can't currently call it strength training proper; it's more like "strength-coordination" or something. It's my hope that building volume here will ingrain neural pathways to better isolate the muscles I need to be working, as opposed to letting my nervous system just turn on everything in the vicinity to get the job done. I can definitely lift/push heavier than I have been , just not without repurcussions.

Are you able to feel your neck "off" or relaxed when you do overhead pressing? For instance, does your jaw clench? It might be just that you need to find that edge where you are training it as heavy as possible without the neck chiming in, and then let things progress from there.
 
william bad butt said:
@Mark Limbaga & All:

Here are 2 video's. 1 from the front and 1 from the back. This is my 1st time pressing and cleaning in many years. 134lb. I did this after a "fake powerlifting meet" where I really pushed myself. You can read about it in my "Last Man Standing" workout log. I am pretty beat up, sore, and exhausted in this video. But I figured I better do it now, because I have no interest in touching a barbell for a long time! I appreciate any thoughts you have on this. Let me know if the video doesn't work.

Regards,

Eric

Rear View:



Front View:
Click to expand...


Looked pretty normal to me for a sub max load for reps.
 
bluejeff said:
@Mark Limbaga I can see them; just have to click the "watch on youtube" link.

@william bad butt after reading some of the others' comments, I too, wonder if it's as simple as a load issue. Bear with me just a bit here.... Speaking from my own anecdotal experience, I know that if I just grab a weight or do a movement that loads me to where I have to strain a bit, other muscles outside of what's needed to complete the move kick in, mostly in/around my neck.

Bear in mind that you are far far stronger than me, so maybe take it with a grain of salt, but this is what has been helping me with neck tension from pressing. I just use a light enough weight that I can do the movement as slow as needed to insure my neck isn't tensing up. I can't currently call it strength training proper; it's more like "strength-coordination" or something. It's my hope that building volume here will ingrain neural pathways to better isolate the muscles I need to be working, as opposed to letting my nervous system just turn on everything in the vicinity to get the job done. I can definitely lift/push heavier than I have been , just not without repurcussions.

Are you able to feel your neck "off" or relaxed when you do overhead pressing? For instance, does your jaw clench? It might be just that you need to find that edge where you are training it as heavy as possible without the neck chiming in, and then let things progress from there.
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I think you are right. In these presses, the weight is light enough that I can turn down the full body tension. But when the Intensity gets north of 80 or 90%, every muscle is trying to fire (think Pavels hyper irradiation concepts from Naked Warrior or Power to the People). When I'm in 2nd gear, I don't think I can isolate and turn off tension. Maybe that is a skill I need to develop. I've always trained the opposite. Or become stronger so 225lb press can be done in 1st gear! If the analogy makes sense.

It is possible for me to generate so much tension that I do damage. Maybe that is what is happening here.

Thanks! I like your strength coordination concept.
 
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