Old Forum "Old PM" + S&S

[Andrew Palmer]

I started off with TGU's and Swings in line with S&S, but switched to the old PM dyad of Bent Presses and Snatches, as I suspected that it would help make my jobs easier, which they have.

I'm currently doing bent presses with 24/32 kg and snatches with 16/24kg.

I set myself the Simple goals as;
Bent Press: 32kg
Snatch: 24kg

Sinister goals;
Bent Press: 48kg
Snatch: 32kg

Just wondering what some of the forum members thoughts are on this variation, and if anybody is doing the "old PM".

 

[Steve W.]

It really becomes a different program with snatches and bent press, so I don't think there are direct equivalencies in the goals.

I've never practiced the bent press, so I can't make an informed comment about that, except that a bent press rep is obviously a lot less time under tension than a TGU rep, so the S&S time standards wouldn't necessarily apply in the same way.

100 24kg snatches in 5 minutes is basically the level 1 certification snatch test, and IMO this is a lower bar than 100  32kg 1-arm swings.

The grip and overhead support demands of the snatch and swing are different, as are the timing parameters. Snatches take more time per rep, but you can adjust your snatch cadence by pausing in the lockout, whereas your swing cadence will be pretty uniform. So for a given time frame and rep goal, you will have less opportunity to put the bell on the ground when snatching, but more opportunity to conserve energy when the the bell is off the ground.

So basically, I would think of this as just a different minimalist program and not a variation of S&S. Figure out how you want to structure your progression with your chosen lifts and just follow that progression, without directly comparing it to the S&S goals. The "Program Minimum" in the orginal RKC book wasn't really a specific program beyond the two exercises recommended, so for these lifts you might consider looking at other specific snatch and press programs that are structured very differently from S&S.

 

 

 

[Zach Ganska]

I don't recall a previous version of the PM that included bent presses and snatches. I don't see the plan as you currently have it working, the amount of overhead work would most likely lead to shoulder issues.  Maybe try the TNT gym's plan given the level of success the have had using these two lifts?

http://www.strongfirst.com/how-we-train-for-the-tsc-at-tnt/

Do you know your current shoulder mobility?  Have any hip mobility restrictions?

 

 

[Andrew Palmer]

Steve, for fun and some focus, I tried to relate the S&S goals, as most healthy males can meet the simple goals with a bit of training, but reaching the sinister goals will take a concerted effort and will to reach them.

I really like the S&S progression, and have used it successfully with other lifts in the past. It basically fit my needs and the kettlebell movements in a minimalist program. I have tried Easy Strength previously, but that would have taken all my training time, as I only have 20-30mins each day to train. So the S&S numbers actually fit very nicely.

I do like your thoughts on the cadence and time available for rest.

Zach, no mobility issues.

I have done the bent press/snatch combo 5-6 days previously and didn't notice any issues with the shoulders, other than my neck/traps getting a little sore, which a good self-massage fixed in 10mins.

I currently do this twice a week now on my off days from a "serious" strength program, and still notice gains, although takes longer to realise them.

I also think Two Hands Anyhow and One Arm Jerks could be used with S&S very effectively, but haven't had the opportunity to try them.

Basically, I think S&S is highly adaptable.

 

[Andrew Palmer]

Or insert any exercises/movements required for a spot on Quadrant III program; bench press/deadlift, TGU/front squat, etc

 

[Phil12]

Zach, I believe it's from The Russian Kettlebell Challenge (2001).

Incidentally, that book is now available on kindle for $3.

 

[Zach Ganska]

AH, thanks Phil, someone ran off with my original copy a few years ago, just ordered the replacement

Look forward to hearing about your results Andrew.