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Barbell Old time strength - scepticism?

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Glen

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Just seen this and feel highly sceptical - what's others thoughts?

Among Hermann Görner's many feats of strength were the following notable lifts:

Deadlift – 360 kg (790 lb) with overhand hook grip. 380 kg (840 lb) with mixed grip.
One-handed block deadlift – 333 kg (734 lb) on 20 July 1920 Dresden, Germany
One-handed deadlift – 330 kg (730 lb) on 8 October 1920, Leipzig, Germany
One-handed deadlift – 301 kg (664 lb) on 29 October 1920 for which he won a Guinness World Record[1]
Deadlift – 270 kg (600 lb) using just two fingers of each hand, normal and reverse grip was used, on 30 November 1933, Leipzig, Germany.
Deadlift – Among Görner's best deadlifts was a lift of 830 pounds (380 kg), rather unorthodox insofar as the makeup of the weight lifted was concerned, it was done in the following manner. Goerner took a bar weighing 441 pounds (200 kg), had two men stand, one on each end of the bar, then deadlifted it to full competition height and held it for several seconds to the satisfaction of the judges. Görner was 42 years old at the time.
Pinch lift – 50 kg (110 lb) on 10 July 1934, Leipzig, Germany.
Clean and Press – 177.5 kg (391 lb)
One-hand snatch of 169.75 lb (77.00 kg) barbell with 2 3/8 thick handle
Leg pressing 24 men, total weight 1,870 kg (4,120 lb), on a plank with the soles of his feet, 1921.
At Dresden on 25 July 1920, Görner lifted the enormous weight of nearly 200 kg (440 lb) overhead in the Two Hands ‘Anyhow’ style, performing the feat with four kettleweights in the following manner. He first swung with the right hand to arms length, two kettleweights, one weighing 110 1⁄4 pounds (50.0 kg). and the other 99 1⁄4 pounds (45.0 kg). Still holding the bells overhead, he then bent down and picked up with the left hand a third kettleweight weighing 110 1⁄4 pounds (50.0 kg), which he then swung to arms length and transferred to the thumb of the right hand. Then, still holding the three kettleweights overhead in his right hand, he lowered his body carefully and with the left hand picked up the fourth kettleweight, which he slowly swung to arms length. The combined weight then held overhead for the referee’s court was, as has been stated, no less than 430 English pounds, or 195.5 kilograms.
 
Those number sound legit to me, right up until the 4,000lb leg press part.

It's unlikely that any of the weights he was using were calibrated to the level of accuracy required in modern competition so it's possible that there's a significant margin of error when it comes to the precise weights he used. Without filmed or photographic evidence, it's not really possible to verify but I don't doubt that most of these lifts are certainly possible and that Mr. Görner was almost certainly exceptionally strong, hard-working individual and probably genetically gifted individual.
 
Some people are freakishly strong, I worked with a guy who used a 90# jackhammer overhead blasting brick lining from a 100' long kiln, I saw him take 90# sacks of concrete and crack them easily like eggs into the mixer while holding them up at head height and away from his body at arms length. Another time he lifted a car by the front fender well so the tire could be changed.
This man did not weight train at all. I was at my biggest and strongest then and tried the concrete sack lift, I could do it but couldn't make it look easy. I weighed 250 lbs then at sub 10% BF, he used to throw me around on occasion and laugh when we would wrestle, I'm telling you these people are out there..
 
I'm telling you these people are out there..

My younger brother is one of them: Without any formal training he'll approach a heavy barbell and instinctively proceed to power clean and push press it. He says "That's just what you do with a barbell, isn't it?". He's beat me at arm wrestling since he was 12 years old and can close my CoC number 1 gripper without even having to try.

Some people just seem to have lunatic strength and explosive power built-in as standard. Maybe it all comes from diminished inhibitory reflexes?
 
My younger brother is one of them: Without any formal training he'll approach a heavy barbell and instinctively proceed to power clean and push press it. He says "That's just what you do with a barbell, isn't it?". He's beat me at arm wrestling since he was 12 years old and can close my CoC number 1 gripper without even having to try.

Some people just seem to have lunatic strength and explosive power built-in as standard. Maybe it all comes from diminished inhibitory reflexes?
Maybe more Neanderthal genetics, I know we all carry some, perhaps some carry more than others?
 
Muscle attachment points. My B in L could bench 400lbs without doing any regular lifting, smoker, drinker etc. He was built like a fireplug though.
 
Much simpler answer:

Yes, they’re likely circus trick phony. Sing along with me whenever you hear of these impossible feats; “There’s NO business like SHOW business like NO business I know!!”

That’s not saying he wasn’t strong - even freakishly so. But how likely to you think it is that he was much, much stronger than 400lb mastodons like Brian Shaw and Hafthor Bjornsen?

C’Mon, Man....
 
Muscle attachment points.

Chimps are very muscular, partly just genetics, partly from doing all sorts of body weight and bar work all day every day....and--

Chimpanzee Strength vs. Human Strength
"But even being as muscular as they are, that is not what makes them so much stronger than humans. It has to do with muscle insertions. See, chimps have muscle attachments that are located farther from the joints point of rotation. We all know what crowbars are here, this is similar to the concept of comparing a longer crowbar to a shorter crowbar. The longer handle allows a person to apply more torque at the point of rotation. It is the same with chimpanzees."​
 
Much simpler answer:

Yes, they’re likely circus trick phony. Sing along with me whenever you hear of these impossible feats; “There’s NO business like SHOW business like NO business I know!!”

That’s not saying he wasn’t strong - even freakishly so. But how likely to you think it is that he was much, much stronger than 400lb mastodons like Brian Shaw and Hafthor Bjornsen?

C’Mon, Man....

Looking at the numbers, Goerner was not "much, much stronger " than any of these two overgrown babies.

The only exception is, obviously, one-hand deadlift; he might have just trained for it. Moreover, if memory
serves me well, he was around 290lbs at times.
 
A PT Barnum quote comes to mind.

I think for me the light came in at the claim that Arthur Saxon bent pressed 370lbs with one arm. No....he didn’t.

This is the lifting equivalent of the Shaolin monks knocking down huge groups of “opponents” - really their own beguiled students - without touching them. Wave the hands around, down they go, dutifully twitching and spasming. Behold Bullshido!!
 
The one finger deadlift stuff no way.

The leg press of 24 men probably had some stunt stuff built into it.

Pinch lift – 50 kg (110 lb) on 10 July 1934, Leipzig, Germany.

Depends what they mean by "pinch lift." Current record for one-hand pinch grip using the Ironmind block is 51.40 kg. If he used a thinner block and maybe had some sticky stuff that he sneakily put on his hand maybe.

Clean and Press – 177.5 kg (391 lb)

I will cautiously say possibly.

One-hand snatch of 169.75 lb (77.00 kg) barbell with 2 3/8 thick handle

With a regular barbell possibly. With that thick of a handle no way.

Here's Klokov doing a one-hand snatch with 90 kg:

 
I think it was the 200kg anyhow that I was most sceptical of. 150kg one arm overhead in stacked kettlebells- truly mind boggling
 
In Seljord, Norway, a 570 kg Heavy rock is placed outside the local church. It is claimed that a local guy lifted it and carried it for some distance sometime in the 1700's. Sterke Nils, which roughly translates to "Nils the strong", was raised on horse milk and "frightfully strong", according to local chronicles.

1280px-Sterke-Niels.JPG
 
In Seljord, Norway, a 570 kg Heavy rock is placed outside the local church. It is claimed that a local guy lifted it and carried it for some distance sometime in the 1700's. Sterke Nils, which roughly translates to "Nils the strong", was raised on horse milk and "frightfully strong", according to local chronicles.

Is this the same legend as the Husefell stone? It sounds different.
 
I think it was the 200kg anyhow that I was most sceptical of. 150kg one arm overhead in stacked kettlebells- truly mind boggling

Just curious which ones you think could be legit. People made some good points here, e.g., Neanderthal genes etc.
 
Some people are freakishly strong, I worked with a guy who used a 90# jackhammer overhead blasting brick lining from a 100' long kiln, I saw him take 90# sacks of concrete and crack them easily like eggs into the mixer while holding them up at head height and away from his body at arms length. Another time he lifted a car by the front fender well so the tire could be changed.
This man did not weight train at all. I was at my biggest and strongest then and tried the concrete sack lift, I could do it but couldn't make it look easy. I weighed 250 lbs then at sub 10% BF, he used to throw me around on occasion and laugh when we would wrestle, I'm telling you these people are out there..
My grandpa was a brick mason.

He laid 12 inch block with one arm.. They are probably 60-7olbs, imagine laying 500 of those a day? He also did this trick with fire brick, stacked 6 high. No one else could ever do as much as him. His arms where probably 18/19 inches around. I got a picture of him i should dig out. One time time a bookie was ordered to stab him, and the bookie wimped out because he thought, if the knife didn't take him out, my grandpa would of killed him.
 
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