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Off-Topic Older Athletes: Anyone Use TRT or Peptides?

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
Not me and I am one of the older ones here at 67 (and soon to be 68). I believe TRT is testosterone replacement therapy. If that's right, I have no idea what my level is, and at my annual physical exam, my doctor has never mentioned it to me.

Peptide? A school spirit rally held oceanside? Related to Pepto Bismol? All kidding aside, I've heard the term in the past, looked it up, and if memory serves, it seems to be frowned upon.

The only difference I've noticed in getting older thus far has been that I'm able to do lifting that would have caused me to get hungry and put muscle on me in the past, and it doesn't make me hungry. In every other way, I'm as good as I ever was so far as I can tell, and I keep getting stronger.

Supplements? Vitamins - multi-vitamin every day, and I take potassium and magnesium because I get muscle cramps if I don't, something I attribute to the fact that I eat a whole lot less than I used to and I don't really care for either fruits, or vegetables except cooked, mushy ones. I also take Vitamin D. Lately, I've been experimenting - in large part because of things I read on this forum - with supplementing Vitamin C also.

Medicine? I grew up a very sickly child, and sometimes when I get a cold, I take Mucinex DM, which is a cough suppressant and expectorant just to help me break the cycle of inflamed sinuses that I can fall into. That's maybe once or twice a year. Nothing else, no prescription medicines, no regular use of ibuprofen/naproxen/aspirin.

I'll give you my shoe size and blood type if you want. :)

-S-
Sir, if your multivitamin has vitamin D in it, you might not need extra Vitamin D, my aunt is a doctor and she told me that you don’t want to take more Vitamin D than you need… It might be sth to look at for you.
 

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
And just in case a young person shows interest in to the topic and visit.

It is a very unfortunate reality that many underaged people or people younger than 25-30 are using some sorts of PEDs around the world and a vast majority of them use them in order to look as good as some fitness influencers but not because they are competing in sports.

Don’t use them. More importantly don’t trust people who sells them or who talks about them as a positive thing. I don’t see any English youtube channel openly marketing them but I see many Turkish youtube channels marketing them and many underaged people asking questions in the comments sections.
 

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
I'll say this about peptides as PEDs, as I train pretty regularly alongside people who use them.

[enter soap box]

If your skills suck, it won't make you better.

If you're a good amateur and not an elite professional pushing the boundaries of what is humanly possible, it doesn't give you that much of an edge compared to just being diligent with your recovery, nutrition, sleep, and following smart programming that doesn't leave you at the ragged edge of over-training.

The biggest users (abusers?) I've seen are folks who are just trying to do too much when it comes to balancing training vs real life commitments, weekend warriors who think they can make it to the CF games while holding down a 40 hour a week job and raising kids if they just did 'more'.

And >35 year old men who haven't made the proper lifestyle adjustments in terms of nutrition, sleep, and programming to fit their mid life biological realities, and instead try to eat, drink, and train as if they're 25, but instead of adjusting their lifestyles, look to peptides as a quick fix.

And guys who are eating Doritos and chocolate milk, LARPing as strength athletes, realizing their health markers are horrible, but instead of embarking on serious lifestyle adjustments, cling to their identity as a 'lift big, eat big' kind of guy and turn to peptides to try to compensate.

And guys who don't want to pay the dues in the iron game, do the work, do the reps -- who want in 2 years what it takes 5 to 10 years to get.

All that being said -- it's your body and your choice.

[soap box over]
This post reflects a mind boggling reality. It could not be more true.

Although I don’t go to a gym and train alone, I still encounter stories of people using PEDs with the profile you picture.

I have recently heard that a 40 year old, attending cross-fit classes, started to exercise 3 - 6 months ago in his life was using PEDs.

I have asked the person who tells me the story (his ex wife), why was he using them? She told me that he was saying that, he “deserves them”, he earned the privilege to use PEDs because he is training and he has a job, wealthy etc.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Elite Certified Instructor
Sir, if your multivitamin has vitamin D in it, you might not need extra Vitamin D, my aunt is a doctor and she told me that you don’t want to take more Vitamin D than you need… It might be sth to look at for you.
@Ege, thank you for taking the time to reply.

My reading - not recently but perhaps within the last 5-10 years - on Vitamin D suggests that what are considered normal levels may, in fact, be significantly too low. My multi has 1600 IU of Vitamin D in it. I also take something called BeyonD3 which contains 5000 IU of D3 plus several other things are supposed to be a good match with D in helping absorption and whatever else. I've been doing this for a number of years now with no ill effects that I'm aware of.

And nothing against your aunt, of course, but in my experience doctors, taken as a group, are not well-informed about nutrition, diet, exercise, and many of the things we discuss here.

-S-
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I'm approaching 40, bro =[
Get your levels tested. If they are low enough to justify use, then have a conversation with your Dr.

The best insurance against declining T is to train consistently and forever. Some evidence that spikes of lactate and HIIT are particularly useful for the older athlete, but lean body comp and consistent training are the most important.
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
TRT or peptides
Excel Male

Nelson Vergel will provide more of the information tnat you need.

The site provides educational information for individual who have low testosterone.

HIV

Vergel was diagmposed with with HIV and began TRT Treatment 34 years ago.ff

Michael Mooney (Medical Researcher) and Vergel address this approach in...

4159Iq+yWvL._SX383_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Muscle Wasting

One of the issue with individual with HIV is Muscle Wasting. To combat it physician will prescribe TRT medications.

Some physican also at time will prescribe TRT for cancer patient to combat Muscle Wasting...

Cachexia

Cachexia is the involuntary loss of muscle and adipose tissue that strongly affects mortality and treatment efficacy in patients with cancer or chronic inflammatory disease. Source: Inflammation and Skeletal Muscle Wasting During Cachexia.

Low Testosterone Health Issues

Low Testosterone leads to a multitude of health issues.

For individual with Low Testostere. TRT Treatment addresses those issues.

Once you start you have to stay on it.

TRT Treatment

TRT for Low Testosterone is similar to other medication for other health issues need to be maintained; "You have to stay on" them.

Low Testosterone doesn't disappear.

Examples

1) Hypertension

I have slightly, chronically High Blood Pressure. It is genetic.

My mother who was 100 lbs had it.

Thus, I have to be on Lisinopril and stay on it.

2) Low Thyroid

Individual with Low Thyroid cause health issues.

Thus, these individual need to be on a Thyroid Medication and stay on it.

You can stop taking it but your boy’s may not come back.

Testosterone Therapy Assistance

One of the main issues with physicians who only prescribe Testosterone is that your Natural Testosterone shuts down.

Thus, the approach of only prescribing Testosterone aloe is not the most effective; it shut down your natural production.

Essentially, the body AutoRegulates.

A knowledgeable medical specialist will circumvent an individual's decrease Natural Testosterone Production by prescribing a medication in conjunction with Testosterone such as: hCG, Nolvadex, Clomid, etc.

These medication stimulate and enable your to Natural Tesosterone Production to be maintained.

Due to you Natural Testosterone Production remaining elevated a Low Dosage of Testosterone is required.

As with all medication, you want to take the least amount that achieves the optimal effect.

Research on another approach...

A Randomized Pilot Study of Monthly Cycled Testosterone Replacement or Continuous Testosterone Replacement Versus Placebo in Older Men file:///C:/Users/Admin/Downloads/Low%20Testosterone%20Replacement%20(3).pdf

This is an intersting approach. Individuals cycle on and off Testosterone.

Doing so, allows you to maintain you Natural Testosterone Production without taking medication that stimulate it.

"Cycled testosterone improved body composition and increased muscle strength compared with placebo and increased FSR similarly to continuous testosterone. (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 96: E1831–E1837, 2011)"

However, most physican most likely are unfamiliar with this approach. Due to thier lack of knowlegeage, they are less likely to employ this method.
Know Your Number

Individuals should know what their Testosterone Level Number is.
 

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
@Ege, thank you for taking the time to reply.

My reading - not recently but perhaps within the last 5-10 years - on Vitamin D suggests that what are considered normal levels may, in fact, be significantly too low. My multi has 1600 IU of Vitamin D in it. I also take something called BeyonD3 which contains 5000 IU of D3 plus several other things are supposed to be a good match with D in helping absorption and whatever else. I've been doing this for a number of years now with no ill effects that I'm aware of.

And nothing against your aunt, of course, but in my experience doctors, taken as a group, are not well-informed about nutrition, diet, exercise, and many of the things we discuss here.

-S-
Thanks for the information! And could not agree more about doctors…
 

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
Many many of the people I know using PEDs don't look like they use, either -- they're trying to use PEDs to look better, but they're not getting results.

If you're a low responder, or just not putting in the work, they don't make miracles.
Very true. And most of them either getting results or not, that I hear are using enormously high amounts. Enough indeed to be at the stage on an IFBB pro comp.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Very true. And most of them either getting results or not, that I hear are using enormously high amounts. Enough indeed to be at the stage on an IFBB pro comp.

I think that's an exaggeration.

Some IFBB pros are cycling huge amounts of HGH, tren, clen, 1000 mg of Testosterone, insulin, etc.

I don't think recreational peptide users are running the Liver King stack.
 
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Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
I think that's an exaggeration.

Some IFBB pros are cycling huge amounts of HGH, tren, clen, 1000 mg of Testosterone, insulin, etc.

I don't think recreational peptide users are running the Liver King stack.
Unfortunately in Turkey the situation is quite bad, except insulin and GH their total is well above 1000 mg ( they lump some all while talking) tough the purity and content of what they use is very questionable. The youtubers promote stacks w tren, danabol, test etc with huge amounts.

The pro body builders in Turkey, when they start to work w Coaches from usa, make fun of their dosage recommendations. The joke is, we use that amount as ear drops…

The information I have on this manner is not first hand. I watch some of them to kill time instead of Netflix.

Bottom line, your approach to peptides what-so ever makes sense to me, and I know much little than you know. So maybe they are plain lying about amounts they use, would not be surprised maybe selling those amounts (debatable purity) let them make more money? It is a dark space in Turkey.
 

cwheeler33

Level 5 Valued Member
TRT - unless there's a serious need that's confirmed by my Doc, forget it. It'll mean I have to quit competing in Judo permanently. There may be other sports where I'll face expulsion if I use them.

Now that said, most of that is mitigating through diet and exercise. And so I don't waste money on supplements that don't work, or that hinder one another I got my hands on the various guides from Examine.com They go through the various major issues and put a list of supplements that work or don't... It doesn't replace a good consult with Registered Dietician, but the info really helps one be informed. When I bought it, the guides were their own product, it seems now they changed their model. Might be able to get the guides with a single month membership (which would have been cheaper).
 

Jayrob

Level 2 Valued Member
70 here and I don't take anything I just eat natural food and drink water. Why would you want to take stuff that shortens your life? If you want to get strong, look like a bodybuilder, a juggler, or whatever, it takes time and training.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Unfortunately in Turkey the situation is quite bad, except insulin and GH their total is well above 1000 mg ( they lump some all while talking) tough the purity and content of what they use is very questionable. The youtubers promote stacks w tren, danabol, test etc with huge amounts.

The pro body builders in Turkey, when they start to work w Coaches from usa, make fun of their dosage recommendations. The joke is, we use that amount as ear drops…

The information I have on this manner is not first hand. I watch some of them to kill time instead of Netflix.

Bottom line, your approach to peptides what-so ever makes sense to me, and I know much little than you know. So maybe they are plain lying about amounts they use, would not be surprised maybe selling those amounts (debatable purity) let them make more money? It is a dark space in Turkey.

I think we’re talking about two different populations.

The peptide users I know aren’t interested in bodybuilding.

They’re CF, obstacle course, functional fitness, ultra endurance, or ‘aesthetic focused’.

They’re not trying to be 300 ln mass monsters

(Except for some of the PL guys)
 

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
I think we’re talking about two different populations.

The peptide users I know aren’t interested in bodybuilding.

They’re CF, obstacle course, functional fitness, ultra endurance, or ‘aesthetic focused’.

They’re not trying to be 300 ln mass monsters

(Except for some of the PL guys)
I could be very off. I don’t know the names and exact differences. I know for a fact that the underground market is big, and many PTs and influencers are praying on un knowledgable people. Speaking for Turkey, I don’t believe sellers or go to people know much about what is what either. The so called fitness community in Turkey is constantly discussing some of their nipple operation due to abuse of PEDs.

I smell a similar vibe with TRT. I don’t say no one needs it. Or it maybe really sth that we all need :) but the way it is being marketed through many content creators annoys me.
 

Wagner SFG

Level 2 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
IMHO I think it's great that it's an open discussion in the landscape now and the stigma is being addressed. Women undergo hormone therapy from a young age with birth control. Melatonin is a form of hormone control. It's an accepted treatment for women going through menopause and the elderly with various ailments. I'm only 41, but plan on probably starting TRT within the next couple years at a minimal effective dose. I may change my mind by then, or even after, but a lot of the fears I'm seeing voiced here seem to be based on the preconceived notion that all PEDs are bad mostly because of heavy usage or crazy cycles (pro wrestlers, pro bodybuilders, almost ANY olympian). PEDs as a term covers a very broad spectrum, from your typical testosterone to things that simply give you an endurance boost like EPO. As an athlete that's never competing in a sport that regulates it, and if it (test) can improve my quality of life overall, why not at least consider it? I feel fine, and my T levels are OK for my age (actually naturally went up from 523 to 593 since starting strongman training), but minimal effective dose of T doesn't seem to pose much long-term health risk. I'm cautious though and have no qualms changing my mind otherwise. You get regular bloodwork to make sure you are staying healthy. With proper balance the chances of things like gynecomastia, cardiovascular, or liver problems are almost non-existent. Guys go "off cycle" and are not completely shut down if smart about it, so it's not impossible to come off it without serious long term damage. I just think it shouldn't be demonized and openly discussed so the fears that rightfully surround the use of these drugs are sussed out, can be better researched and monitored. My .02
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
IMHO I think it's great that it's an open discussion in the landscape now and the stigma is being addressed. Women undergo hormone therapy from a young age with birth control. Melatonin is a form of hormone control. It's an accepted treatment for women going through menopause and the elderly with various ailments. I'm only 41, but plan on probably starting TRT within the next couple years at a minimal effective dose. I may change my mind by then, or even after, but a lot of the fears I'm seeing voiced here seem to be based on the preconceived notion that all PEDs are bad mostly because of heavy usage or crazy cycles (pro wrestlers, pro bodybuilders, almost ANY olympian). PEDs as a term covers a very broad spectrum, from your typical testosterone to things that simply give you an endurance boost like EPO. As an athlete that's never competing in a sport that regulates it, and if it (test) can improve my quality of life overall, why not at least consider it? I feel fine, and my T levels are OK for my age (actually naturally went up from 523 to 593 since starting strongman training), but minimal effective dose of T doesn't seem to pose much long-term health risk. I'm cautious though and have no qualms changing my mind otherwise. You get regular bloodwork to make sure you are staying healthy. With proper balance the chances of things like gynecomastia, cardiovascular, or liver problems are almost non-existent. Guys go "off cycle" and are not completely shut down if smart about it, so it's not impossible to come off it without serious long term damage. I just think it shouldn't be demonized and openly discussed so the fears that rightfully surround the use of these drugs are sussed out, can be better researched and monitored. My .02

There is a pretty big gap in the research data on exogenous test vs peptides and SARMs when it comes to long term effects.

Peptides and SARMs are much newer, so you’re entering territory that is less well known in terms of long term health.
 

Bill Lets

Level 5 Valued Member
If I were forty or fifty years old and had t-levels in the say, five hundred range. I would not go on T just to make my lift’s go up and and put my confidence in the availability of getting a prescription refill.

My reason being is that 2020, 2021 and 2022 are are going to look like a walk in the park compared to 2023 and beyond (my thoughts). In America big pharma, big food the media and big government control everything. It’s all about the money.

For those who truly need TRT and take it they loose fat gain muscle and are not depressed. It’s a win.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
If I were forty or fifty years old and had t-levels in the say, five hundred range. I would not go on T just to make my lift’s go up and and put my confidence in the availability of getting a prescription refill.

My reason being is that 2020, 2021 and 2022 are are going to look like a walk in the park compared to 2023 and beyond (my thoughts). In America big pharma, big food the media and big government control everything. It’s all about the money.

For those who truly need TRT and take it they loose fat gain muscle and are not depressed. It’s a win.

I don’t get what the year 2023 has to do with TRT?
 
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