Bodyweight One-Arm Pull-up progression
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offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
@pet'
Also... I've dabbled in going for the OAC off and on over the years. I keep coming back to the risk/reward ratio. Probably at the end of the day it's not worth me doing it. It won't make me appreciably better at what I do, so on my practical days (not many according to my wife) I don't see the point. But...
Also... I've dabbled in going for the OAC off and on over the years. I keep coming back to the risk/reward ratio. Probably at the end of the day it's not worth me doing it. It won't make me appreciably better at what I do, so on my practical days (not many according to my wife) I don't see the point. But...
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
I think hanging from one arm, and doing scapula depressions would strengthen all the right muscles. But that's a rather obvious answer. I never had this issue since I remember from day 1 using full retraction because Beastskill.com made me afraid I could damage my shoulder otherwise. So I built up that strength over the many months of OACU training I did.
Hello,
So as expected, I feel pain on my left shoulder. Depression is quite painful
However, I will still keep working "normally" with my right arm. I will use much more progression for the left one. Another option could simply be give up ah ah
Kind regards,
Pet'
Depression shouldn't be painful. It should be difficult because it's a lot of weight, but it should feel like a smooth down pull. Does it hurt if you do it with two arms?
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
Offwidth is right on the money here. The OACU has a really high probability of wrecking your elbows and shoulders. It's not even about "taking it slow". You could take months to let tissues adapt, and still develop overuse injuries.
Even if you DO build up to the OACU, it might not even be in your best interest to do them that much either. I got to the point of doing multiple OACUs per side, even with weights (25 lbs attached), but it always feels like you can mess stuff up with one bad rep.
Nowadays, I never do OACUs. I only do weighted Pull-ups, and not even that often. I find that if I can keep my weighted Pull-ups increasing slowly (maybe 5 lbs a month), that I can just randomly retain my OACU very well. Once a month I'll go to the bar and do one each side, and they feel excellent, crisp and powerful. In this sense, it's possible weighted pull-ups are better for me.
Just some thoughts.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
First, I thank you guys for your answers
@offwidth
Actually, it is pretty stupid and now, I am very careful : I fell during hiking in forest. I did not see a root under the leaves, in a very sloping path. My left shoulder fell on a rock. Due to the back pack weight, I fell heavily on my side...
@305pelusa
Then when you say:
By the way, does someone have a program to increase 1RM on chin ups / pull ups ?
Once again, I thank you for your recommendations. I believe they are wise and I will follow them.
Kind regards,
Pet'
First, I thank you guys for your answers
@offwidth
Of course I can tell.
Actually, it is pretty stupid and now, I am very careful : I fell during hiking in forest. I did not see a root under the leaves, in a very sloping path. My left shoulder fell on a rock. Due to the back pack weight, I fell heavily on my side...
That is also the case for me. Above all if I get injured during training.
@305pelusa
It does not hurt at all with two arms, even with 50 - 60% of bodyweight added, both for pull ups and chin ups.
After all my effort to avoid overtraining in "sport injury", injure myself because of a too hard training is not an option. I workout because I like it and because I look for good health.
Then when you say:
I think it is a pretty wise sentence.
I think I will go for weighted pull ups. It is something that I know I can do without pain. I will progressively increase the load and it will be fine.
By the way, does someone have a program to increase 1RM on chin ups / pull ups ?
Once again, I thank you for your recommendations. I believe they are wise and I will follow them.
Kind regards,
Pet'
Last edited:
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
Sorry if maybe my responses were not very clear. I was not trying to recommend anything. I was just talking a bit about my experience. And to support offwidth's point that you should be careful.
Maybe you can slowly ease into OACU's by doing more depression work. Maybe weighted Pull-ups will be worse for you. I can't tell you that. Only you can determine it. I personally developed elbow tendinitis a couple of times when training the OACU. I rested a week, got back to it, and was fine. You might have a similar experience. Or not.
My point is, I just want to share a bit of my experience and let you decide from there
Maybe you can slowly ease into OACU's by doing more depression work. Maybe weighted Pull-ups will be worse for you. I can't tell you that. Only you can determine it. I personally developed elbow tendinitis a couple of times when training the OACU. I rested a week, got back to it, and was fine. You might have a similar experience. Or not.
My point is, I just want to share a bit of my experience and let you decide from there
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
As @offwidth said, the goal is only to get better, not get injured. I never experienced tendinitis, even when I was during high rep sets with two arms in full ROM.
I appreciate your help and the fact you are also sharing your experience with all these details. That is always helpful
Tonight, as a test, I tried a strict (from dead hang position) weighted CU@ 42 (bdw 64). I passed without any pain problem. I think I can go heavier. Tomorrow I will try 45 or 46. I don't know an "equivalence" between a weighted and an OAC but I suppose 85-90% of bdw added is close to to an OAC. It will be my goal !
Kind regards,
Pet'
I know, don't worry !
As @offwidth said, the goal is only to get better, not get injured. I never experienced tendinitis, even when I was during high rep sets with two arms in full ROM.
I appreciate your help and the fact you are also sharing your experience with all these details. That is always helpful
Tonight, as a test, I tried a strict (from dead hang position) weighted CU@ 42 (bdw 64). I passed without any pain problem. I think I can go heavier. Tomorrow I will try 45 or 46. I don't know an "equivalence" between a weighted and an OAC but I suppose 85-90% of bdw added is close to to an OAC. It will be my goal !
Kind regards,
Pet'
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
The OACU seems to be almost a new skill compared to a 2 handed CU. I never found any direct correlation between the two. Sure there's a carry over but it never worked as the numbers would indicate for me.
There's been times where I've focused on the OACU and was capable of a few reps but couldn't pull twice my bodyweight in the two handed variety. I've also focused on two handed lifting and was capable of lifting twice my bodyweight but couldn't do a OACU.
& if you don't experience tendonitis while training for the OACU I think you will be one of the very few lucky ones who don't
There's been times where I've focused on the OACU and was capable of a few reps but couldn't pull twice my bodyweight in the two handed variety. I've also focused on two handed lifting and was capable of lifting twice my bodyweight but couldn't do a OACU.
& if you don't experience tendonitis while training for the OACU I think you will be one of the very few lucky ones who don't
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@Tarzan
@305pelusa
Do you follow a structured progression ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
@Tarzan
Sure there is also a skill to get. On theory, being able to lift twice bdw is enough (even more than enough). I think the skill is as difficult as the strength to get for that move.
@305pelusa
I tested this morning during my routine : 44 added is ok !
Do you follow a structured progression ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@305pelusa
Thanks ! I take a look.
I also took notes of how 5/3/1 program precisely works.
If it can help other, this article is pretty simple to understand figures:
5/3/1: How to Build Pure Strength | T Nation
Kind regards,
Pet'
@305pelusa
Thanks ! I take a look.
I also took notes of how 5/3/1 program precisely works.
If it can help other, this article is pretty simple to understand figures:
5/3/1: How to Build Pure Strength | T Nation
Kind regards,
Pet'
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I write this post now I finally got the strict one arm pull up, my "holy grail", my "top of the food chain" bodyweight pull exercise !
I do not know if lots of folks here have this goal too. If so, I write it to modestly explain how I did, with my mistakes and what I learnt from them. I just hope it will help a little. If you can find anything useful here, then just pick it up and use it.
Before I started this journey, I already worked a lot my pull ups. I did 30 strict full ROM in normal pace without any issue. I do not say that it is a requisite. Most tutorial report about 20.
I used several methods to get there.
The first one (and I do a special thank to @305pelusa !) is the counter pulley system. Firstly, I had to test the lightest counter weight I had to use to get an OAC. Finally, this weight is an assistance. From there, I used the following "basic" frame:
1st wk => 5x5 at 80%max
2nd wk => 4x4 at 85%max
3rd wk => 3x3 at 90%max
4rd wk => deload
The percentage is based on the lightest counterweight I could use. To a certain extent is a kind of % 1RM.
At the begining, I trained 4 days a week. However, I noticed that this volume is too significant for me, despite pretty good results. Then I cut off a session a week, to train only 3 times. It was better for me that way. I not overthought the week and %max. Indeed, sometimes, I stayed longer on a %. The idea is to get really comfortable before moving on.
I slowly made my way to a 4kg counterweight. I tried another cycle then. However, it seemed I reached a plateau. From there, I changed my training. I switched to weighted chin up.
I followed a pretty linear progression at the begining. Using the pulley, I get a pull up with a comfortable 42 (or even 44kg added on good days) for a bdw @62
So I started by a 4 * 4 frame, based on my 4RM (I used the 42 as my 1RM), twice a week. I did not test if this had improved my 1RM or not, because I wanted to above all build a strong "strength endurance".
When I changed my main routine, I wanted to kept things simple, so I chose then a daily dose. I started the daily dose @42, using 3 singles. Progressively, I get 3 in a row. So I tested my max and got 44. So I did 44 in singles, then in a row, etc... I finally reached a 1RM @50. From time to time, I'd have used a deload to manage better rest.
At this moment, I worked a lot on negative. Maybe it was an error working on it that way. Indeed, the negative does not teach the shoulder packing required to initialize the move.
For a long time, I simply maintain the 1RM.
Recently, I got back to S&S and heavy GUs. This move is a fantastic tool to get the shoulder pack. I tried my strict OAC yesterday...and here it was !
So, if I had to do it again, I would do things simpler:
A progression based on weight : 3 * 3 or 4 * 4, twice a week, based on 3RM or 4RM. This focuses a lot on the shoulder pack to initialize the move. I'd change the weight each time I'd feel comfortable. Beyond the biceps strength, the shoulder strength and coordination is just crucial. So, simultaneously, I would use a dead hang position, and work my shoulder pack.
Kind regards,
Pet'
I write this post now I finally got the strict one arm pull up, my "holy grail", my "top of the food chain" bodyweight pull exercise !
I do not know if lots of folks here have this goal too. If so, I write it to modestly explain how I did, with my mistakes and what I learnt from them. I just hope it will help a little. If you can find anything useful here, then just pick it up and use it.
Before I started this journey, I already worked a lot my pull ups. I did 30 strict full ROM in normal pace without any issue. I do not say that it is a requisite. Most tutorial report about 20.
I used several methods to get there.
The first one (and I do a special thank to @305pelusa !) is the counter pulley system. Firstly, I had to test the lightest counter weight I had to use to get an OAC. Finally, this weight is an assistance. From there, I used the following "basic" frame:
1st wk => 5x5 at 80%max
2nd wk => 4x4 at 85%max
3rd wk => 3x3 at 90%max
4rd wk => deload
The percentage is based on the lightest counterweight I could use. To a certain extent is a kind of % 1RM.
At the begining, I trained 4 days a week. However, I noticed that this volume is too significant for me, despite pretty good results. Then I cut off a session a week, to train only 3 times. It was better for me that way. I not overthought the week and %max. Indeed, sometimes, I stayed longer on a %. The idea is to get really comfortable before moving on.
I slowly made my way to a 4kg counterweight. I tried another cycle then. However, it seemed I reached a plateau. From there, I changed my training. I switched to weighted chin up.
I followed a pretty linear progression at the begining. Using the pulley, I get a pull up with a comfortable 42 (or even 44kg added on good days) for a bdw @62
So I started by a 4 * 4 frame, based on my 4RM (I used the 42 as my 1RM), twice a week. I did not test if this had improved my 1RM or not, because I wanted to above all build a strong "strength endurance".
When I changed my main routine, I wanted to kept things simple, so I chose then a daily dose. I started the daily dose @42, using 3 singles. Progressively, I get 3 in a row. So I tested my max and got 44. So I did 44 in singles, then in a row, etc... I finally reached a 1RM @50. From time to time, I'd have used a deload to manage better rest.
At this moment, I worked a lot on negative. Maybe it was an error working on it that way. Indeed, the negative does not teach the shoulder packing required to initialize the move.
For a long time, I simply maintain the 1RM.
Recently, I got back to S&S and heavy GUs. This move is a fantastic tool to get the shoulder pack. I tried my strict OAC yesterday...and here it was !
So, if I had to do it again, I would do things simpler:
A progression based on weight : 3 * 3 or 4 * 4, twice a week, based on 3RM or 4RM. This focuses a lot on the shoulder pack to initialize the move. I'd change the weight each time I'd feel comfortable. Beyond the biceps strength, the shoulder strength and coordination is just crucial. So, simultaneously, I would use a dead hang position, and work my shoulder pack.
Kind regards,
Pet'
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
+1 for weighted Pull-ups. I didn't use them the first time I build up to a OACU (only Pulley) but use them pretty much exclusively for Pulling work nowadays. My OACUs have never felt as damn effortless in the past frankly. It's a terrific exercise.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
To be honest, I owe this move to you and your useful tips Thank you !
In a while, I will test my 1RM to see how it goes.
In terms of figures, we weigh more or less the same (62 if memory serves). We passed it with a 1RM @50 / 52. A. Kavadlo talks about sets of 3 or 4 reps @75% bdw added to get the raw strength. so, for 62kg, this is 46,5. I managed to do that. I guess you too, or even more ?
I know that transfers are different from a person to another but it gives an idea of the metrics in terms of weights. Then, this is technique, but that's another story
Kind regards,
Pet'
Yes it works very well ! I will do OAC as my only one pull exercise. I want to consolidate them. I also want to be careful with my wrists and shoulders. I noticed I pass them easier in the morning than the evening after my working day.
To be honest, I owe this move to you and your useful tips
Thank you !In a while, I will test my 1RM to see how it goes.
In terms of figures, we weigh more or less the same (62 if memory serves). We passed it with a 1RM @50 / 52. A. Kavadlo talks about sets of 3 or 4 reps @75% bdw added to get the raw strength. so, for 62kg, this is 46,5. I managed to do that. I guess you too, or even more ?
I know that transfers are different from a person to another but it gives an idea of the metrics in terms of weights. Then, this is technique, but that's another story
Kind regards,
Pet'
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
@pet' : I appreciate the kind words very much. I think your idea to use weighted Pull-ups was ultimately what got you there. And after having done them for some time, I'm pretty confident is recommending that coupled with Pulley work. I think the Pulley has some really great benefits too, so it might be a matter of figuring out ratios of each to train.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I do not know if there is a weight limit or not. I've always heard things like 'the heavier you are, the harder it is for that move'.
Kind regards,
Pet'
90 I do not know. The heaviest person I know who does OAC weighs about 68 - 70 (not on SF).
I do not know if there is a weight limit or not. I've always heard things like 'the heavier you are, the harder it is for that move'.
Kind regards,
Pet'
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@Lenny
In addition to the "raw strength", there is also a significant factor : technique. In terms of strength, I think if you can reach a 1RM with 80% bdw added (for me it was 50kg added), you have the "equivalent". 2 or 3 sets @70 - 75% added would also theoritically lead you to the same strength amount.
Kind regards,
Pet'
@Lenny
In addition to the "raw strength", there is also a significant factor : technique. In terms of strength, I think if you can reach a 1RM with 80% bdw added (for me it was 50kg added), you have the "equivalent". 2 or 3 sets @70 - 75% added would also theoritically lead you to the same strength amount.
Kind regards,
Pet'
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