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Kettlebell One-Arm Swing Form Check

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jca17

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Hi,
I've been posting here for a few months but I've never given any background or anything.

I have no current injuries. This summer was about finally clearing up lingering injuries from a left shoulder subluxation from July over a year ago. Using swings, TGUs, OS, and correctives from my PT, I haven't had any recurring symptoms of the injury in months.
I am 26, male, 6'0", 150-155lb, under 10% body fat.
There are no natural or functional movements that cause pain for me.
I have not had a recent movement screen. I feel like I move well, and have been told so by PTs (just their observation, not a screen).
I don't compete in any sports. I like to always be ready for a pickup game of basketball, flag football, or whatever may come up.
I'm a college student and I get a lot of walking in around the campus during the day, although I still do a LOT of sitting with classes, commuting, and studying.

Right now I'm working on S&S. I used it as a bridge from my rehab with weights that are below the "average strength" gentleman guidelines in the book. My first "strength" goal coming off of rehab is to hit the "average strength" starting point of the program. My TGU's are there. I was consistently doing 4-6 sessions of 10x10 one arm swings with 16kg with heart rate monitor (180-age +5). I figured it would be a good time to have a form check as I attempt to move up to the next weight. One thing that has happened since trying 24 kg and sometimes 20kg one arm swings, is my knees will have a tight feeling right at the top of shin. Some reps there would be an audible click but that doesn't happen anymore. I've made some adjustments like waiting longer to hinge. I noticed tender spots on adductor longus (although no hip pain that would often accompany trigger points there).
This video is with a 20kg KB.


I'm committed to S&S until reaching the simple goal, and want to be as skilled in the swing and TGU as possible (not just able to do the reps with desired weight, but reaching for mastery).

-Jonathan
 
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First thing I notice is that you are not getting true full hip extension. This is crucial for a number of reasons and is the beginning of your education on how to get tight. When you finish each rep make sure to squeeze your glutes as hard as you can while the bell is floating. I usually give athletes one fix at a time and am happy to keep helping you if you post corrections. There is a good chance you may need to revist your 2-hand swing. If you can post an example of that it would help greatly.
 
To me, it looks like you would also benefit from hiking the bell up higher between the legs when you start swinging, it pendulums about 6 inches lower than where it usually stops in your downswing. Try and and hike it to the same height, it will help keep the stress off the lumbar spine during the first swing IMO
 
Hello Jonathan,
first of all, your swings look not that bad. I would add on what Yogi said. You want your lockout make tight. You wrote, that you sit a lot, that is a pointer to me, that you maybe have tight hip flexors and you could benefit from hip flexor stretches. The next thing you could make adjustments to is your timing of your hips going back (set the YouTube settings on the slowest motion and pause at different times). Stay in the tight lockout position as long as possible, and when your arm upper arm more or less has contact to your torso, then the hip has to go back). The third, most apparent to me is your parallel to the floor upper body. Your shoulders are almost level with your hips then, that is a bit to much. Your hips should somewhere between shoulders and knees.
Stand with your swing stance a few inches before a wall, with your butt facing it. Put your hands in the grease of your hips, and push your but back, till it softly touches the wall while looking with your eyes to a spot 10-15ft away from you at the floor. Grab the floor with your toes, and make sure your weight is completely on your feet. Push your hips forward again, go just a little bit further of the wall and repeat folding at your hips with your shoulders coming down simultaneously. eventually you will find your sweet spot, where your hips pushed back the furthest, while staying connected with your feet. Note your alignment of your upper body according to the floor. It may help, filming yourself doing this drill.
A good cue from Yogi is, to concentrate on one cue at a time.
 
Jonathan,

I agree on a little more hip extension if possible. One way you may be able to do that is to emphasize a biomechanical breathing match - meaning use a short, sharp exhale at the exact moment your hips are snapping. In your video, it seems like your exhale comes during the float of the KB, rather than during the hip snap. You'll find that you are more powerful and will probably get a bit more hip extension if you can dial in a biomechanical breathing pattern.
 
In addition to the comments made already, I'd like to piggyback on Harald's comment about your torso angle. In Harald's description of the touch the wall drill, he mentions the hinging at the hips and the shoulders coming forward as occurring simultaneously. This is how it should be in the swing. In your swing, however, your hips go back and your torso inclines forward, but then when your hips reach the limit of their travel backward, your torso continues to fold forward. This wastes a lot of power and makes your swing a lot slower and weaker than it should be. The bell is swinging you instead of you swinging the bell. You're letting it pull your torso down without loading any more tension into your hips. Then your have to waste hip extension power just to get your torso moving toward upright again before your hips drive forward. Finally, you leave more potential power on the table by not strongly finishing the hip extension at the top.
 
Thank you very much everyone. I'm taking a day off today. That tight sensation in my knee came back today. Just walking around, sometimes I get a click from my knee, and it feels like there's tension under the knee cap to the top of the shin. It's not pain, but its tight and sometimes uncomfortable. I don't feel anything during the swing. One arm with 16kg never caused this. It's when I started doing 24 kg that it started, and then after yesterday's session with the 20 kg, its there again. When I stopped for a week and only did two arm with 24 kg and worked trigger points in the adductor longus a few times a day, it went away.

I will work on the extension and see if it's a mobility limitation or if I'm not driving through as much as I can. My first priority though is to fix whatever is going on in my one arm swings that is causing the tightness and clicking, they could very well be related (either lack of extension, or excessive hinge). I imagine that if I just practice through it, it will get to be painful, so I'm going to wait to work out the trigger points again before making adjustments, and go back to two arm swings since they don't cause the knee thing.

Here are some more videos of the same session (yesterday).
Two-arm swings with 24 kg:


One arm swings with 20 kg from a different angle:


It looks like the torso angle with the one arm swings is the same as my two arm swing, so that's something I can probably fix with the two arm swing first. I will work on the pointers already given, but is there anything in the 1 arm swings that anyone thinks may be causing the knee tightness and clicking after training? Is there anything different from my two arm swings that I'm doing?
 
Jonathan, your swing looks good and you have some really excellent suggestions there. I learn so much from what others see!

I don't have any thoughts on your knees, but a simple thing to try is just moving from plank to hinge, unloaded, without a kettlebell. Try a lot of subtle shifts in the hinge position (and also the plank position with the hip extension and tightness in the legs) and notice how all of them feel at your knees. Maybe something will become apparent to you.
 
Allow your feet to turn out to match where your knees are going - it looks like you are trying to keep your feet too straight ahead.

Would like to see a KB DL to check some slow motion positioning
 
I did 6 sets of 24kg 2 arm swings today, no issues at all in the knees. Again, its the 1 arm swings that do it, but I really want to nail down the 2 arm first, and it may actually take care of the 1 arm problem.
Here are the swings.


I think that the extra shirt tucked into the front of the shorts makes it harder for me to see the hip lockout angle in the front, but is there any noticeable difference from the last videos? I felt like I was pushing through the glutes harder, and also felt like I was not swinging so low, but the reality may be different than the perception.

And for @Brett Jones, here's a few deadlifts from different angles. Also, I have some goblet squats in here in case anyone notices anything with those:


Thank you so much for your feedback. Should the angle of my feet be a little more turned out throughout, or should they slightly pivot in the course of the swing?
 
Turned out throughout (definitely not pivoting)

Looks like you are trying to posterior tilt at the top of the DL/swing - the finish of hips does not include a posterior tilt
 
Oh, ok. I was intentionally pushing my glutes forward more this session, trying to get more hip extension. I'm misunderstanding how to increase the hip extension that others have pointed out to me. What is the relation between hip extension, hip tilt, and clenching the glutes? If I just think "get tall", will that more or less create the alignment I want? It feels like as I push forward through the hips, there's a point where I'm tallest, and then as it continues to push and roll posteriorly, I kind of shrink again.
 
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"It feels like as I push forward through the hips, there's a point where I'm tallest, and then as it continues to push and roll posteriorly, I kind of shrink again."

Stop where you are tallest with tight glutes don't push through to where you tilt posteriorly and shrink

goal is a level pelvis with tight glutes
 
I'm having a hard time disassociating "cramping the glutes" from posterior tilt. I think all of my hardstyle "lockout"/plank positions have that feeling. Right now, that means the top of the goblet squat, swing, and TGU. That's not appropriate for the top of the swing, but that is the sensation that Pavel talks about elsewhere as shortening the distance from the tailbone to the belly button, right?

Will a truly maximal contraction of the glutes bring the hips past neutral and into posterior tilt?
 
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jca17
Stand with you quads tight (kneecaps pulled up and knees "locked") and cramp the glutes - this should level your pelvis not posterior tilt you

This position is the same for all of the drills you mentioned

For 99.9% of people the drill I describe above will simply bring you to neutral not posterior tilt

the sensation shortening of the distance between the tailbone and belly button is a subtle sacral nutation not a posterior tilt
 
rickyw said:
maybe think maximal isometric contraction at the top
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's how I'm thinking of it. It's just that relative to what I was doing it doesn't feel as tight, but even just practicing anytime I was standing today has helped reset my idea of where it should be.

Thank you Brett. I think also the cue to drive the feet into the ground, to root, helps negate the tilted sensation I've become accustomed to. When my hips are tilted, even though I certainly feel a heavy contraction of the glutes, I don't feel as strong of a drive into the ground. When I think of rooting to the ground AND cramping the glutes at the same time, I get the contraction feeling while also staying level.

This forum is really amazing that we get to pick the minds of the great ones. It's like Gary's article today. Find the great ones, then listen to what they say :)
 
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