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Kettlebell One hand swing karate-style off hand position

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WhatWouldHulkDo

WhatWouldHulkDo

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I tried to search the articles on this, didn't see anything obvious, so I'll throw the question out there.

I'm a karate practitioner. One thing we teach religiously at our dojo is a good pullback - you project power into the striking fist with a good snap back in the opposite hand (along with some good hip rotation ).

Lately I've tried this with one arm swings as an experiment. Instead of having the off arm follow the bell, I reach forward with the off arm during the hike back, and pull it back as the bell swings up - essentially moving the off arm counter to the bell. It actually feels pretty good.

But, this seems to be outside of the generally described technique. I'd love to hear opinions on taking this approach, or if there's some article out there I missed.

I'd post a video, but I'm scared of youtube
 
I´ve had a similar experience as @Steve Freides says. When I swing a challenging kettlebell, the most useful tool I find to avoid rotation is to forcefully swing the passive arm as well.

From my little experience with Karate, the punch originates from a rotation motion at the hips, its kind of the opposite of what you want to achieve with the swing, isnt it?
 
I've experimented with placing my offhand behind my back. I've also experimented with externally rotating my active hand palms up at the top, which seems to make for a stronger inverted fist/shovel punch.

I agree with not encouraging any additional rotation, but under load, using the offhand as a counter might actually dampen rotation - similar to the recoil counterbalance rod on the AK107. I'd have to try it for a few...
 
@WhatWouldHulkDo I can't seem to wrap my head around this manoeuvre: It seems that it would almost certainly give you an unfavourable predisposition to unwanted torso rotation.

Is there no chance of a video upload? My curiosity is well and truly piqued and I'd love to see what your swing looks like.
 
Chrisdavisjr said:
I can't seem to wrap my head around this manoeuvre: It seems that it would almost certainly give you an unfavourable predisposition to unwanted torso rotation.
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I think that's the important point that our original poster was, perhaps, missing. That rotation is a desirable thing in a punch but not in a kettlebell swing.

-S-
 
How about placing/swinging the arm between the legs, but with the hand held flat(like a karate chop), and not touching the Kettlebell? I think this is the best for me in terms of anti-rotation, otherwise my form is just wonky.
 
Steve Freides said:
I think that's the important point that our original poster was, perhaps, missing. That rotation is a desirable thing in a punch but not in a kettlebell swing.

-S-
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Sorry, I don't think I was clear in that post: I understood that much; I should have been replying to @North Coast Miller's post about using the non-KB arm as a 'counterweight' to dampen rotation. That was the part I didn't understand.
 
Chrisdavisjr said:
Sorry, I don't think I was clear in that post: I understood that much; I should have been replying to @North Coast Miller's post about using the non-KB arm as a 'counterweight' to dampen rotation. That was the part I didn't understand.
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If you try a few with no weight, it seems possible the off hand could actually damped the tendency to rotate - per the AK 107 analogy. Rifle has a weighted rod that moves forward when the bolt goes back, effectively countering the recoil impulse.

Extending the arm forward at the bottom of the swing will keep that shoulder more forward than bringing the off arm back, partially countering the tendency to rotate at the bottom of the hike. Similar effect at the top.

I would have to try it a few times (and will), but it seems this could actually dampen rotation more than moving the opposite arm in a shadowing or complementary path.
 
Thanks for all the replies and thoughts - I think you've all hit the nail on the head, I'm increasing the rotation, turning it into a different exercise.

I'll post a video if I figure out how to join the 21st century, but will abandon the experiment for now.
 
I tried it today for my workout and rotation decreased. I actually had to activate more pec to keep the bell somewhat centered on the bottom of the hike or it was passing too close to my load-side knee.

It made the swing more difficult. Bringing my arm down to my hip level when the bell was at the top of swing seemed to trigger some additional muscle activation across the entirety of my upper back.

I did it with my arm mostly straight - extended out in front of me and at a angle at the bottom, and as I came up I brought it in close to my body.

In my case it seemed to work like the arms do when walking - dampening torso rotation rather than increasing it.

This might call for a video...
 
Been trying this out for a couple of workouts, is actually more difficult than the conventional method, not sure if it is as effective or what other pro/cons might arise.

Am going to keep at it for a few more sessions. Is still a work in progress, but this is how I pictured the OP - more or less. Have to work on extending the arm down a bit instead of straight out as it looks like I'm not getting quite deep enough.

 
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It's a cool variation. At the back of the swing it almost looks like you're doing a front crawl. I wonder if this would work for swings outside of the knees.
 
Chrisdavisjr said:
It's a cool variation. At the back of the swing it almost looks like you're doing a front crawl. I wonder if this would work for swings outside of the knees.
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Outside the knees usually calls for even more rotation, but I'll give it a try anyway.

I'll also have to put up another video once I have this dialed in better. Last two workouts I am shifting toward tighter form, straighter arm throughout, no halt/stutter as I pull it back in when the bell rises. Also means there is less pop/float and the KB reaches the top of its arc the same time the hips center and the extended arm is full retracted in line with the body.

This change does make it more challenging. Purists will say it robs you of power, but it does make you work harder - the off arm moving in a complimentary path definitely adds momentum. The atmosphere feels a little thicker doing them this way.
 
Alright, here's another quick demo from the Adirondack Room training center!

Have tightened it up a bit and improved the timing. Is still a work in progress, but tightened up I am really liking this.

A thank you to @ WhatWouldHulkDo for posting this, as I've never seen this variation performed before by anyone.

 
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