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Kettlebell Other Kettlebell moves than the getup and swing???

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Me and my problem with writing posts on and off... I'm sorry, now I'm at home and I can handle this with more patience. :)

What I meant is that I haven't got a problem with snatch technique, but with the weight. The program I came up with is meant to overcome this by a relatively slow progression, and can be done in two days a week or three days a week. What I meant is that I can post the "program" here, since it is pretty simple an can be summerized in a post, for you or anybody else more expert than me to evaluate if it is good or bad, but since I don't know if this is against the Forum's rule I'm abstaining myself until I have permission to.

I hope this clarifies my previous, messy post, which I apologize for! :)
 
@Frank_IT, let's please see a video of your heaviest swing and heaviest snatch that you are comfortable with, not a weight you struggle with. I'd rather focus on your technique than on your program design.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides I worked (and I'm working) on my snatch technique with my local SFG II instructor directly (Mr. A. Monari, which is also an SFL certified instructor). He said it's fine, I'm just trying to work with the 24 kg because it actually is my heaviest weight. My technique doesn't suffer from the weight (otherwise, I wouldn't even try it), I'm just trying to get a higher number of reps. I don't want to sound arrogant, really, sorry if this is being the case, it's just that I'm trying to clarify my previous, ranting post as much as I can! :)

I'm going to see my instructor this week just to say hi and probably for an hour of good old StrongFirst practice with kettlebells, anyway I'm going to ask him to review my technique on the snatch. I'm sorry but the space were I train is relatively small and it's almost impossibile for me to film myself without cutting either the drop or the lockout outside of the frame. Thanks anyway for your request, Steve: you are one big resource for this forum (I've no shame admitting I figured out ROP progression following your scheme for heavy days, after almost frying my brain with pen and paper)!

Also, if I'm not mistaken, I think the day long course I'm going to attend with Fabio Zonin on November 12th should include snatch study.

Well, it's 8:00 pm, here in Italy, I'm doing my daily dose of Simple & Sinister! ;)

Catch you later, StrongFirst!
 
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In addition to monotony, I find S&S neglects mostly leg strength-endurance. To simply add some variety to the movements while keeping the overall structure and concept the same I get the most from these:
  1. Goblet Squats, Front Squats, Split Squats, etc.
  2. Farmer Carry, OH Carry, Rack Carry, etc.
Mix and match as you see fit. My favorite is farmer lunges mixed with a heavy atlas carry
 
My experience in using my S&S strength for judo (which is a pretty intense combat sport) was that S&S was ideal for practical strength - at least that kind of practical strength. However, life is more complicated than judo. I think squats are going to have to become part of my routine, as you guys suggest (I'll have to look up what some of those other moves are though!), and I also think standing presses (military or side) will have to be included. I'm looking forward to getting the "Enter the Kettlebell" book that has the ROP programme, which I did not realize was not superseded by S&S in Pavel's system. I get the impression it is more varied and thus maybe more "fun" and perhaps easier to do...? S&S though definitely made a Hercules out of me in a few months.
 
Frank_IT said:
This is something I totally agree with. I might just add "which is a pretty intense, AMAAAAAZING combat sport".
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I'm nobody, but I have done judo for almost 30 years and I've certainly done my duty in the regional level competition circuit. So, from my limited perspective, S&S gives herculean strength and bequeaths many new techniques on a judoka - because of the practical nature of the S&S strength, you can pull off moves that you only saw before in books or by true international level champions. I actualy feel like I've been through a few judo matches while I'm doing the S&S routine. I'd imagine it would have the same effect for BJJ, and likely for MMA too - although when it comes to striking arts, I'm not particularly skilled and so can't really say.
 
Kozushi said:
I'm nobody, but I have done judo for almost 30 years and I've certainly done my duty in the regional level competition circuit. So, from my limited perspective, S&S gives herculean strength and bequeaths many new techniques on a judoka - because of the practical nature of the S&S strength, you can pull off moves that you only saw before in books or by true international level champions. I actualy feel like I've been through a few judo matches while I'm doing the S&S routine. I'd imagine it would have the same effect for BJJ, and likely for MMA too - although when it comes to striking arts, I'm not particularly skilled and so can't really say.
Click to expand...

Here in Italy, Pure Power Academy teaches a seminar of kettlebells for combat sports, K4K. Since it's a project of Mister Zonin, Mister Zedda and Mister Pennese (Master SFG, SFG II and SFG II respectivly, Mister Zonin is also an SFB and SFL, Mister Zedda a SFB and Mister Pennese a SFL) and relevant to the topic, I feel it's safe to post a video here to give you an example of how kettlebell work can be applied to other combat sports or Martial Arts. By the way, Pennese is a MMA fighter himself and a trainer of international level athletes (one of his trainee won his UFC debut fight last month, if I'm not mistaken). Enjoy! ;)

Attention: contains Manowar!



Edit: don't say you're a nobody with 30 years of experience in Judo, Kozushi Sensei.
 
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@Geoff Chafe Carrying a heavy stone, stump, sandbag, etc. at your chest like a bear hug. I call them atlas carries just because I usually do them with an atlas stone.
 
Frank_IT said:
Here in Italy, Pure Power Academy teaches a seminar of kettlebells for combat sports, K4K. Since it's a project of Mister Zonin, Mister Zedda and Mister Pennese (Master SFG, SFG II and SFG II respectivly, Mister Zonin is also an SFB and SFL, Mister Zedda a SFB and Mister Pennese a SFL) and relevant to the topic, I feel it's safe to post a video here to give you an example of how kettlebell work can be applied to other combat sports or Martial Arts. By the way, Pennese is a MMA fighter himself and a trainer of international level athletes (one of his trainee won his UFC debut fight last month, if I'm not mistaken). Enjoy! ;)

Attention: contains Manowar!



Edit: don't say you're a nobody with 30 years of experience in Judo, Kozushi Sensei.
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All of that stuff is excellent for judo and similar sports, I think. All those movements are reproduced almost exactly in combat, even those "halo" moves, which are exactly what you have to do sometimes to resist chokes and head grabs. The Turkish getups reproduce beautifully the movements needed for the all important bjj "sweeps". I'll go further and say that I think that one's time is better spent doing those moves than extra time with a partner wrestling around or practicing techniques. I don't really believe that partner training increases strength much -- you have to use a smart weight training regimen to develop decent fighting level strength. The scary guys were normally guys who trained in both judo/bjj AND weights. Guys who did the sports alone were a bit weak, and those who trained weights alone, while they could learn very fast, were a bit "dumb" when it came to fighting to actually win. The confounding factor is, I think, though, that after you get experience fighting for a few years and you know how to use a number of good techniques, weightlifting becomes significantly more important for you than mat time to progress. Manipulating your opponent's weight is what judo/bjj technique is all about, and kettlebells (or similar) are training in just that, now aren't they? I don't do judo anymore, although I'll likely restart at some point, but my weight training keeps me in perfect fighting form, I feel. My kettlebells are now my personal home dojo.
 
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Kozushi said:
All of that stuff is excellent for judo and similar sports, I think. All those movements are reproduced almost exactly in combat, even those "halo" moves, which are exactly what you have to do sometimes to resist chokes and head grabs. The Turkish getups reproduce beautifully the movements needed for the all important bjj "sweeps". I'll go further and say that I think that one's time is better spent doing those moves than extra time with a partner wrestling around or practicing techniques. I don't really believe that partner training increases strength much -- you have to use a smart weight training regimen to develop decent fighting level strength. The scary guys were normally guys who trained in both judo/bjj AND weights. Guys who did the sports alone were a bit weak, and those who trained weights alone, while they could learn very fast, were a bit "dumb" when it came to fighting to actually win. The confounding factor is, I think, though, that after you get experience fighting for a few years and you know how to use a number of good techniques, weightlifting becomes significantly more important for you than mat time to progress. Manipulating your opponent's weight is what judo/bjj technique is all about, and kettlebells (or similar) are training in just that, now aren't they? I don't do judo anymore, although I'll likely restart at some point, but my weight training keeps me in perfect fighting form, I feel. My kettlebells are now my personal home dojo.
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Came across this old post of mine. I restarted judo about 6 months ago, full tilt, and I can say I still agree exactly with this post.
 
Hello,

@Kozushi
How is your shoulder going ?

Bent Press & Pistol also transfer pretty well to whole body strength (regarding the title of the thead). Indeed, both of them implies great coordination, lots of core work and spine flexibility, plus balance and leg strength and hip flexibility / opening.

For a while, I trained only BnP & pistol. Then, I wanted to test the GU again. It was perfectly maintained.

The drawback is that the session lasts a bit longer because you go for 2 grinds instead of only 1.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Alternatives to conventional S&S:

-Snatches (as a swing replacement)
-Bent press (as a GU replacement)
-High pulls (as a a swing replacement)
-Push press (as a GU replacement)

Or just substitute a whole session with 10mins (total work time) of crawling (preferably non stop).
 
+1 crawling!
If I'm not doing s&s I block my training into dan johns movement patterns. Push pull squat hing loaded carry and everything else.
So it may look like this
Everything else=warm up crawling streching 5 min.
Pair upper pull, squat between 5-20 min
Pair hing, upper push between 5-20 min
Finish loaded carry 5 min.
It can take you as little as 20mins total to an hour. With 5 min blocks expect 2 sets of each movement with minimal rest and with 20 expect 3-8sets (or 3-4 ladders) depending on rest. I do suggest timing each section.
This isn't my idea. I stole it from I believe max shank or dan John, or both. Probably both.
Anywho hope that helps
 
Clean & Jerk, single or double. Single armed version is great fullbody conditioning movement.

I just made 18min nonstop set few days ago. Easy pace, handswich every five reps.

Great conditioning....
 
[QUOTE="Kozushi "What other moves do you recommend for days I don't feel like doing the regular S&S programme?[/QUOTE]

Nothing exotic, but I just grab a heavy kettlebell in each hand and walk barefoot around the backyard as long I can before having to set it down.
 
Right shoulder is sore - just sore. I can do push presses fine with the 32kg bell. I can do presses carefully with the 24kg bell. Because of my 3 days a week elite level judo training which is massive on the cardio and the legs, I am developing an expressly non-cardio training regimen with my kettlebells. Evidently, presses factor hugely into this.
 
Two variations to S&S
1) SW 10R + 1 TGU R + SW10L + 1 TGU L x 5 rounds, using the TGU as your rest so take a good minute to finish it. Note that I often snatch or jerk my last rep up and do a reverse TGU then from the top a swing switch to change sides.
2) Keeping things simple, I love handstand holds and pushups between sets of 10 swings.
 
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