Oxygen advantage vs Wim Hoff

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
An interesting read comparing two systems of breathing which I thought were the same but are not. Reading the oxygen advantage at the moment. It appears to have a cross over into Vo2 max which would be interesting. I have used Wim Hoff before as a relaxation tool and cold therapy for recovery. Haven't used any of the methods from the O2 advantage as yet.

A Comparison of The Oxygen Advantage and Wim Hof Techniques - Oxygen Advantage
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@conor78
Thank you for this link. Very interesting !

It outlines a very important point in WHM : hyperventilation. I admit it is a good method concerning cold management for instance. However, as a diver and free diver, I strongly advise again doing WHM for free diving or long hold breath because this method is based on hyperventilation:

We can read it perfectly in your article "The practice of taking big breaths is based on the misconception that taking in more air will increase the oxygen levels of the blood. Since arterial blood is already almost fully saturated with oxygen (between 95 percent and 99 percent) during normal, healthy breathing, “big” breathing as in the case of 30 large breaths through the mouth, will bring more oxygen into the lungs, but will not add any more oxygen to the blood".

Basically, an O2 blood saturation which exceeds 99% leads to a loss of red cells ability to deliver O2 to the muscles. Plus, a slighlt dose of CO2 blood permits a correct CO2 transfer from muscles to blood (blood CO2 increases), to be then ejected by breathing.

Hyperventilation virtually makes blood C02 tolerance higher...but does not permit a good CO2 eviction from muscles and tissues. During underwater activities, it implies a bad CO2 eviction from heart and brain. Then, we get a loss of focus and sensation, which can be dangerous, even tragic.

High Altitude Training Simulation (HATS), as described in the article, is much more safer (I practice it when I walk) and leads to a better 02 management. Basically, you learn to do as many moves as the usual, but with less O2. This method helps me a lot in free diving.

IMO, a good "combination" is to use WHM for cold management, and HATS for any other activities.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Hello,

@conor78
Thank you for this link. Very interesting !

It outlines a very important point in WHM : hyperventilation. I admit it is a good method concerning cold management for instance. However, as a diver and free diver, I strongly advise again doing WHM for free diving or long hold breath because this method is based on hyperventilation:

We can read it perfectly in your article "The practice of taking big breaths is based on the misconception that taking in more air will increase the oxygen levels of the blood. Since arterial blood is already almost fully saturated with oxygen (between 95 percent and 99 percent) during normal, healthy breathing, “big” breathing as in the case of 30 large breaths through the mouth, will bring more oxygen into the lungs, but will not add any more oxygen to the blood".

Basically, an O2 blood saturation which exceeds 99% leads to a loss of red cells ability to deliver O2 to the muscles. Plus, a slighlt dose of CO2 blood permits a correct CO2 transfer from muscles to blood (blood CO2 increases), to be then ejected by breathing.

Hyperventilation virtually makes blood C02 tolerance higher...but does not permit a good CO2 eviction from muscles and tissues. During underwater activities, it implies a bad CO2 eviction from heart and brain. Then, we get a loss of focus and sensation, which can be dangerous, even tragic.

High Altitude Training Simulation (HATS), as described in the article, is much more safer (I practice it when I walk) and leads to a better 02 management. Basically, you learn to do as many moves as the usual, but with less O2. This method helps me a lot in free diving.

IMO, a good "combination" is to use WHM for cold management, and HATS for any other activities.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Interesting stuff to be sure.
But I'm still not convinced that the adaptations that occur at altitude can be significantly trained in a meaningful way at lower elevations.
 

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I haven't finished the book and I'm generally sceptical of wild claims about how to hack into world class performance with seemingly simple exercises. I am guilty of shallow breathing so the move to breathing through the nose is quite a change. I'll finish the book, try out some of the principles and report back..
 

wespom9

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I really want to read that book as well as Wim Hof's. Clearly from the Wim Hof thread I have many questions about all this stuff and it's so fascinating. Trying to learn the physiology behind all this.
 

MikeMoran

Level 5 Valued Member
I haven't finished the book and I'm generally sceptical of wild claims about how to hack into world class performance with seemingly simple exercises. I am guilty of shallow breathing so the move to breathing through the nose is quite a change. I'll finish the book, try out some of the principles and report back..
The OS Breathing should fix your shallow breathing. ;)
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I haven't finished the book and I'm generally sceptical of wild claims about how to hack into world class performance with seemingly simple exercises. I am guilty of shallow breathing so the move to breathing through the nose is quite a change. I'll finish the book, try out some of the principles and report back..
You can help a bit with the nose breathing by touching the tip of the tongue to the roof of your mouth. Not sure why it helps but it does - learned this through mediation guides etc. Breathing techniques are very interesting and rewarding to try.

This book helped me with breathing better (http://www.arfalpha.com/ScienceOfBreath/ScienceOfBreath.pdf), though I never did quite make it to the more mystical applications...
 

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Patrick Mc Keown would be well respected over here. My brother is training for a white collar MMA contest and he was saying that all of the instructors reference Wim Hoff quite a bit. I've a few days off and I plan to finish the book over the weekend. This material is starting to seep into the mainstream.
 

Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
@conor78 , any thoughts on the Oxygen Advantage?

I finished the book a week ago and I'm now trying to fit the exercises in my daily life. So far I've been doing great and I think my bolt is improving, it has also helped with alergies.
 

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Hi Oscar,
I read it about a month ago and since then I have been using Butyeko app on a daily basis. My bolt score has improved and I try to integrate into my recovery for kettlebells and M Thai. I have watched quite a few of Patrick Mc Keowns YouTube videos as well..it all makes a lot of sense.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

I would like to give a try to Oxygen Advantage protocol.

Compared to WH, which I daily practice after my training session for recovery, would oxygen advantage do the same ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

jef

I am a student of strength.
Certified Instructor
@pet'
Oxygen advantage is based on Buteyko, and goes a little further into breathing for sport performance.
There are two branches in Oxygen advantage. One is really about Buteyko (functional breathing, hypercapnic training). The other branch is for sport performance, and high altitude training simulation (intermittent hypoxic training).

As @Steve Freides pointed out, if you want to practice Buteyko, there are many methods being taught, not only Oxygen advantage. They differ mostly on the way they teach, not really on the underlying principles.
If you want to develop breathing for sport performance, I cannot recommend Oxygen advantage enough.
I would also recommend to go the Second wind seminar, by Pavel. It is not only about breathing, but the largest part is.

If you want to know more about Oxygen advantage in French, I am so far the only French certified instructor.
 

Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
Hello,

I would like to give a try to Oxygen Advantage protocol.

Compared to WH, which I daily practice after my training session for recovery, would oxygen advantage do the same ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
Pet, I suggest you read the book and see what you think. Also try the exercises. If you like what you read, I strongly recommend you practice Buteyko with an instructor. I had mediocre results from the exercises in the book, and then saw excellent results working with an instructor in only 1 month.
In my case the results were amazing.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Yes I ordered the book to get some information from it.

If you want to develop breathing for sport performance, I cannot recommend Oxygen advantage enough.
This is mainly what I am after. I wanted to dive into it after listening a podcast about breathing and freediving.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@Steve Freides
I read the entire book. I really liked it a lot. Simulating the high altitude sounds quite interesting actually. I am sure it could help a me a lot for my cardio / conditioning activities, such as boxing and diving.

In the book, different protocols are mentioned, using cycling, etc...
Do you think I could incorporate the same kind of routine using jumping rope during my routine ?
Do you think it can be "detrimental" to perform both WH and Oxygen Advantage ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

jef

I am a student of strength.
Certified Instructor
@pet'
Choose a system and stick to it.
Combining WHM and OA does not seem like a good idea to me, as the breathing part has some fundamental differences. OA is never hypo-capnic (low levels of CO2), while WHM breathing exercices are by design. Two really different approaches and adaptations.

If you want to go to OA and the Intermittent hypoxic training it recommends, it is fine. You can still do cold exposure and meditation, as in WHM, but for the breathing, it is better to choose one method or the other, not to mix it.
 

Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
Hello,

@Steve Freides
I read the entire book. I really liked it a lot. Simulating the high altitude sounds quite interesting actually. I am sure it could help a me a lot for my cardio / conditioning activities, such as boxing and diving.

In the book, different protocols are mentioned, using cycling, etc...
Do you think I could incorporate the same kind of routine using jumping rope during my routine ?
Do you think it can be "detrimental" to perform both WH and Oxygen Advantage ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
Im not Steve but...

About using jumping rope: I think it could work, but I would suggest you try it while walking first. It is not so easy to do and it requires focus. It is also not easy to deal with the air hunger with a high heart rate. So walking would be the place to start, and then you can progress when you get a feel of it.

About Wim Hof: I dont know much about it, but I understand that overbreathing is used at times. This is the exact opposite of Buteyko so it might be counterproductive. Maybe you can keep the cold showers and dont do the Wim Hof breathing while you are practicing Buteyko.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Hello,

@Steve Freides
I read the entire book. I really liked it a lot. Simulating the high altitude sounds quite interesting actually. I am sure it could help a me a lot for my cardio / conditioning activities, such as boxing and diving.

In the book, different protocols are mentioned, using cycling, etc...
Do you think I could incorporate the same kind of routine using jumping rope during my routine ?
Do you think it can be "detrimental" to perform both WH and Oxygen Advantage ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
@pet', this isn't a subject on which I can comment more than what I've said in post #13 in this thread above. I don't practice or teach either of the two things you're considering.

-S-
 
Top Bottom