Paleo question

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
I admit, the paleo guys make alot of good arguments. But, there have been alot ifof civilizations that weren't paleo and did quite well. The Spartans ate grains and comsumed dairy. The Mongolians consumed alot of dairy. Does this mean Paleo man was healthier? Was it just a matter of necessity and not evolving to the next step yet? Some of the paleo guys are saying there's some benefits to adding some dairy to the diet now. Matter of time till some grains creep in?
 

The Scientist

Level 3 Valued Member
I'll offer a few ideas. I follow most of the paleo principles for about 90% of my food intake, but make exceptions for things like dairy and the occasional beer.

It is important to remember that the dose makes the poison. Will a few packs of sugar cause anyone harm? Of course not. Will several cans of soda each day cause harm? Absolutely, in the long run. I think that the beauty of the paleo-approved foods is that you can enjoy as much as you want without worry. I eat as much as I want, which is often very much, and never have to worry about body composition problems. I can imagine a person choosing only three or four "paleo" foods (perhaps salmon, eggs, a fruit and a green vegetable), eating nothing but those things and being very healthy.

I can't imagine the same for processed foods (including whole grains) and dairy. A little is probably fine for most people, but they are just not dense enough in nutrients to sustain a person well in the long run.

As for the paleo crowd accepting grains: I know some that seem to accept rice in moderation for athletes that need more carbs, but I doubt others like wheat will ever get acceptance. It is just too central to much of their argument and would invalidate all the claims they have made.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
I don't use alot of dairy. A cup of yogort (whole unpasteurized organic) everyday and a splash or two of half n half at night with my eggs before bed.
 

Northern Kettlebells

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
In my opinion you need to find what foods work well for you.

Cut out processed food, grains, dairy, legumes and nuts for a couple of weeks, then if you want add one food back in to your diet and see how you feel.

By doing this I've found gluten free grains and nuts are good, legumes are indifferent (I can't think of reason to eat them), processed food, glutenous grains and dairy bad.

I've no idea idea if this is classed as paleo, and don't really care, because it works for me
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
It is remarkable how many diet experts there are that contradict each other, and each of them tells his story about how unhealthy he was when he ate the way the other guys do, and how healthy he became when he started eating the way he does now.  And each of them have their own followers that tell their stories about how converting to that way of eating saved their lives.

It seems common sensical that it is a good idea to cut out the sugars and processed grains.  As far as to the timing and frequency of meals, intermittant fasting, never fasting, etc etc etc, try and see.  You will know if you feel better, get leaner, or whatever.

I think the medical community missed the boat by prescribing a low fat, high carb diet.  But, the proof of the effectiveness of any way of eating should be easy enough to obtain.  Try it and see.

I even tried being a vegetarian for a while.  I read a few books.  They seemed to make sense.  But, when I tried it it just didn't work out.  I have tried Paleo.  Even bought a side of grass fed beef.  Overall, I felt pretty good.  But, I think some of those Paleo guys take it a little too far.

The first step of any diet should be to cut out the sugars and refined grains.  That makes beer off limits.  I just wish I could make my car quit going to the Sonic to order a Blast.
 

JamesO

Level 4 Valued Member
Chris gave you great advice regarding how to find out if an elimination diet is ideal for you.

Jeff, I think you'd Like "Diet Cults," by Matt Fitzgerald.  The big take away is that humans are highly adaptable to many different ways of eating.
 

puddleduck

Level 6 Valued Member
The Paleo concept is primarily about marketing.  I wouldn't worry about whether or not a caveman ate grains.  Observe your own responses to food and read credible research about nutrition, (i.e. not stuff cherry picked by people who have a sale to make).  Sorry if that sounds cynical.
 

GreenSoup

Level 6 Valued Member
A lot of indigenous societies today are very healthy while eating non-paleo foods like beans, dairy, and prepared grains.  The Weston A. Price Foundation has cataloged this kind of stuff for decades, as have other profiles of long-lived civilizations like in The Blue Zones.

Unless there are specific issues with gluten, allergies, etc, the eating philosophy of “don’t eat stuff that can only be found with added sugar, weird chemicals, or in a sealed bag or box” seems to do well for anyone.  “Don’t overstuff yourself all the time” also seems to fit the pattern of good health. No marketing category like “paleo” is necessary to realize the benefits.

The Neolithic diet [presumably whatever you can find in a good supermarket today] allows you the opportunity to get the best foods from all over the world all year round.  Don’t miss out on the opportunity!

And Geoffrey, don’t miss out on a trademark for your Neolithic Diet!
 

streetbobcraig

Level 1 Valued Member
I was going to post this as a new thread but, it seems to dovetail nicely here. I am working my way though a new book called "The Big Fat Surprise: Why Butter, Meat, and Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet"  by Nina Teicholz and it is an eye opener. It is not a diet book, it is a history of how Americans, and then later, the world got so screwed up about what to eat and why.

I cut and paste the publisher's summary from Audible. I couldn't help but think of Pavel's advice to avoid chicken as I dove along listening to this book. He nailed it again.

Craig

Summary:

Dish up the red meat, eggs, and whole milk! In this well-researched and captivating narrative, veteran food writer Nina Teicholz proves how everything we've been told about fat is wrong.

For decades, Americans have cut back on red meat and dairy products full of "bad" saturated fats. We obediently complied with nutritional guidelines to eat "heart healthy" fats found in olive oil, fish, and nuts, and followed a Mediterranean diet heavy on fruits, vegetables, and grains. Yet the nation's health has declined. What is going on?

In The Big Fat Surprise, Teicholz reveals how 60 years of nutrition science has gotten it so wrong: how overzealous researchers have made basic scientific mistakes that, through a mix of ego and bias, allow dangerous misrepresentations to become dogma, and how scientists who dared oppose this consensus have been ostracized. For eight years, Teicholz has pored over the massive research literature and interviewed hundreds of leading experts to unravel the shockingly distorted claims of nutrition studies. She brings these researchers to life and shows how their ambitions, loyalties, and rivalries have undermined a field of research already full of difficult pitfalls.

With a lively narrative style akin to Michael Pollan's in The Omnivore's Dilemma and the scientific rigor of Gary Taubes in Good Calories, Bad Calories, Teicholz convincingly upends the conventional wisdom about all fats. Her groundbreaking claim is that more dietary fat leads to better health, wellness, and fitness. Science shows that reducing the saturated fat in our diets has been disastrous for our health as a nation, and we can, guilt-free, welcome these "whole fats" back into our lives.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
What's her view on grains? From what I'm gathering, grains are o.k.ish in limited quantities. Just stay away from processed crap.
 

streetbobcraig

Level 1 Valued Member
She really doesn't take a stance. This is a history lesson not a diet book, but she lists many examples of different groups who view grains and fruits and vegetables as feed for their food (animals) and is only eaten in extreme times of famine. Some of them are the Masi tribe in africa (meat blood and milk), many native American tribes, The Inuits in the arctic. The way they get the micro nutrients is by eating the viseral meats (organs) that are dense with them. One of the big things I got from it was, stay away from vegetable oils in all its forms (EXCEPT olive oil which is mono-unsaturated so it acts more like animal fats). I'm still working on the book but as of right now I'm thinking of looking into the Paleo life. I could care less to eat grains and I only crave carbs when I'm dehydrated anyway so I think i'll be a good fit.
 

MarkPaul

Level 1 Valued Member
I'd recommend reading <a title="http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/" href="http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/">http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/</a> for a pretty well researched criticism of the Paleo movement. There are several extensive posts about Teicholz, Taubes and other low-carb/high-fat/anti-wheat advocates.
 

GeoffreyLevens

Level 7 Valued Member
Geoffrey, don’t miss out on a trademark for your Neolithic Diet!
Working on it. Just found out the Kuna indians in Panama traditional diet mostly plantains, coconut, and fish but even the very most traditional group today eats donuts fairly often! May have to incorporate this info in my coming book.  Look for it!
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
The whole concept of the Paleo Diet, whether you like it or not, hinges on a religious belief.  I believe that the Flood (think Noah's arch), occurred roughly 4,000-4,500 years ago.  That is about the time that the Paleo Diet guys say that the Agricultural Revolution took place.  So, we both agree that something big happened during that same time frame.  But since I believe that God created in world in a literal six days, and that the Flood occurred about 4,000-4,500 years ago, then that precludes the concept of evolution that the entire Paleo Diet is based on.

Now, I realize that places me in the minority, which is fine.  The point, though, is the fact that sometimes an idea can be logically consistent and still be wrong if the presuppositions are wrong.

I don't doubt that there are foods that are common today that might not be the best thing for us.  But, I wonder if that is because of genetic engineering that has taken place on the food.
 

GeoffreyLevens

Level 7 Valued Member
I don’t doubt that there are foods that are common today that might not be the best thing for us. But, I wonder if that is because of genetic engineering that has taken place on the food.
I think not so much genetic engineering though that is part of it but rather just "engineering". Food industry scientists have been working hard for many years to find just the right combo of sugar, fat, salt, and flavor enhancing chemicals to addict people and get them to eat more and more "product". That has created a whole food culture of "metabolic poisons" that really make up the majority of what most people eat.

Go to a Walmart super store or a CostCo sometime and just watch what goes to the register in peoples' baskets! It is horrifying and appalling. Also the biggest contributor to why they US "health care system" (so called) is such disarray and near collapse
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
To follow up, I believe that due to the cataclysmic events that occurred at the time of the Flood, atmospheric conditions changed, which affected the qualities of the plants that men eat.  It is interesting that prior to the Flood, God had allowed men to eat only plants, but after the Flood, God allowed men to eat both plants and animals.  It was also at this time that the recorded lifespans of men began to drastically reduce as compared to before the Flood.
 

GeoffreyLevens

Level 7 Valued Member
Anyone can believe anything they want to. Correlation between belief and reality is another issue though.

 

I believe I don't need to train to get stronger, only eat spinach...
 
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