Paleo question

The Scientist

Level 3 Valued Member
Jeffrey,

I never claimed that I can prove the non-existence of any of the thousands of gods that humans have imagined, and biological evolution doesn't require that no gods exist to be true. There is simply no evidence supporting the existence of any gods, so I live my life as though they don't exist - much like tooth fairies and easter bunnies.

This statement I just don't get: "Saying that the world evolved is as much a religious statement as saying it was created."

Are you not aware of the enormous body of evidence supporting biological evolution and detailing its process? Molecular genetics (the field in which I earned my doctorate) has made very fine details of this process clear. Since there is an enormous amount of evidence, no faith is required. Creationism on the other hand has no evidence to speak of and has no hypothesis to test. This leaves it in the realm of faith and superstition.

As for your lack of embarrassment, I am not surprised. Those who locked up Galileo for demonstrating that the earth revolved around the sun were not embarrassed at the time, but would be now. The religious groups who fiercely held onto their claim that diseases were divine judgement and not caused by microbes were also not embarrassed at the time (not that long ago), but would be now. The priests who told Ben Franklin that he was going to hell for trying to subvert god's divine judgment with the lightning rod showed no embarrassment, but they seem awfully silly now. Some day history will judge you as being as laughably wrong and ignorant, just like every other case of religion being stubborn and stupid, and then having to play catchup with science a few decades or centuries later.

I realize that this has nothing to do with strength and does not belong here. I am just too tired of having to work with my students to erase years of them begin brainwashed by this nonsense. I also know that you will not change, but I just can't help but try.
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
Geoffrey,

you did not deny the existence of God.  My last post was more in response to Scientist.

As far as the OP, my main point was the fact that even if a position is logically consistent, the merits of that position could be flawed if the presuppositions the position is based are incorrect.  I believe the Paleo diet has its merits, but the whole premise of the Paleo diet is based on the premise that man evolved over millions of years to eat a certain way, and then about 4,000 years ago there was an agriculture revolution that allowed man to base his diet around things that are foreign to the diet we evolved to eat.  The OP asks about grains and dairy.  It goes back to the premise that the Paleo diet is based on.  The easy answer to the OP is systematicly eliminate or add grains and dairy and see if you can tell the difference.
 

guacadoggie

Level 3 Valued Member
Wow, this thread went downhill... Religion and politics should stay out of forums not dedicated to such topics. The original post was about diet, which is related to our strength goals. Religion, not so much.
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
Geoffrey,

That is really interesting.

While it is interesting to study what different people in different parts of the world ate at different times in history, it seems like the best way to go is to study the effects of foods available today on health.  Just because potato chips weren't available a thousand years ago doesn't prove that potato chips are not a healthy addition to a diet.  But, I think it can still be proven that they really aren't a healthy addition to a diet.

When you look at the way Pavel sets up and discusses his own programs, there is no religion involved.  Pavel says to do this many reps for this many sets, and it will develop this particular metabolic pathway and develop this kind of strength.  There isn't any sort of speculation about what some hypothetical humanoid may have done at some distant past.  I still insist that is a religion, sorry Scientist.  If it denies God, it is religion whether you like it or not.  Thing is, it is not productive to speculate on what some hypothetical humanoid may have been like, because that is not what any of us are.

Why wouldn't the most productive studies on diet involve modern humans eating food that is available?  What good would it do me to know that some other life form that no longer exists ate a type of food that also doesn't exist, or is not available to me?  And what if I want to eat potato chips and ice cream?  How bad could it be?  No speculation necessary.  I think we see for ourselves how bad it can be.  Sort of.  There are so many variables.

 
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
Arryn,

I sort of agree.  But oftentimes discussions of diet and exercise can have a religious component to it.  When people insist that a certain way of eating or exercising is best because that is how we evolved, it becomes a religious discussion.  It can still potentially be a polite and respectful discussion.  Scientist doesn't necessarily have to shoot a flame thrower on those he disagrees with.
 

JamesO

Level 4 Valued Member
I think we can go far when we are able to hear the positions of others and allow them the right to hold them.
 

The Scientist

Level 3 Valued Member
It is impossible to force someone to abandon a belief. I'm just pointing out how absurd it is. If  I came on the board and insisted that the best way to get strong is to be tied on a rack and stretched until your joints dislocated, nobody would hesitate to laugh and call me crazy and stupid. Jeffrey's claim is equally absurd, but I am a bad guy because it involves religion instead of something less controversial like strength training. I think we can go far when we refuse to let ignorant people get away with spouting nonsense about very important topics that they know nothing about. We are all adults and can think for ourselves, but people say things like this to children and they don't know better, so they believe it. This has real and important consequences.
 

The Scientist

Level 3 Valued Member
Jeffrey,

You are mistaken about several things. We are not talking about a different species. Modern humans have been alive for several hundred thousand years. We have their fossils and their DNA. This is not speculation or a matter of faith. It is a matter of fact.
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
Scientist,

I understand you disagree with me, but I don't quite get why my belief in God and the fact that God created the world makes you so angry.
 

GeoffreyLevens

Level 7 Valued Member
Jeffrey, impossible to really determine a person's emotional state from internet posts. Possible anger, possible just strongly expressed opinion driven by many years of seeing children's minds "damaged by superstition".
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
So you are concerned for my well being, and you want to deliver me from God?
 

The Scientist

Level 3 Valued Member
"I understand you disagree with me, but I don’t quite get why my belief in God and the fact that God created the world makes you so angry."

I am angry because a huge amount of progress has been made in the last several hundred years thanks to science superseding religion as the primary source of information in the world. It drives me crazy that there are still people who hold on to a belief system that has historically been wrong about nearly every claim they have ever made, and discount the thousands of hard working scientists who have done more for the world (technology, medicine, etc...) than religion ever has.

"So you are concerned for my well being, and you want to deliver me from God?"

Of course not. You are free to believe whatever you want. It is having to hear about it that bothers me. Also the expectation by many that it be taught in schools.
 

The Scientist

Level 3 Valued Member
Geoffrey,

It is not a raging, violent anger, but sometimes I feel a type of exasperated anger that is mostly rooted I frustration. I think that if most people would just get some education on the topic we could clear up so many misunderstandings. I was raised by religious fundamentalists and was only shown a better way by my college advisor. I never really believed any of the religious teachings I was exposed to, but I was much to afraid to ever say it out loud before I was an adult for fear of being ostracized by my family and friends. I don't think that anyone should have to go through that.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
Christianity. The belief that some cosmic jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Makes perfect sense. I always say believe in yourself before you believe or put faith in something that isnt real or there. How many people have been murdered and butchered in the name of god and religion?
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
And you cant debate with these people because its the same old argument. You just have to have faith, or he works in mysterious ways.
 

The Scientist

Level 3 Valued Member
Hunter,

Well said.

Jeffrey,

It is very telling that you just dodge all my points that I make by ranting about faith, as if that gets you out of having to make a real argument. This is a sure sign of someone who is too insecure to engage in a real discussion.
 

Jeff

Level 4 Valued Member
Ranting?  Hmmm.  I don't know about that.

To be honest, it was never my intention of changing your mind, so I guess you could say I never felt the need to make a real argument.  But, really, why are you so angry?
 
Top Bottom