Paleo + training= 100% muscle loss... wtf?!

aussieluke

Level 6 Valued Member
Just to point out again that 'paleo' does not mean low carb.

 

You can do 'low carb paleo', but you don't have to.
 

ideaman

Level 3 Valued Member
Ok. Point was that we followed a very specific plan, that is highly published and touted, right down to the recipes. It is categorised and promoted under the title of Paleo. Yes, it is a version of, and not a required one. However thousands of people attempt it, and if they are going to promote it as Paleo, then I felt compelled to put my results out as such as well, in order to reach the most people possible, with the intent of helping the most people possible... just as I am sure their intent is.

I have not named it and won't as it is not my intent to bash the person. His is just one of a lot of programs like it. I can theoretically help more by reporting on the results of the type of program than hammering the writer.  Besides, when I tested the idea in my little world about what Paleo means... I simply asked people I run into... 100% said they think Paleo means low or no carb. Doesn't matter if "technically" it doesn't mean low or no carb. People's PERCEPTION is that it does mean exactly that.
 

mhanch

Level 1 Valued Member
it isn't that Paleo isn't "technically" low carb or not. To call out an entire band of diets, the majority of which are not strictly low carb (and not one paleo diet is no carb, period), and state that it is detrimental to one's health, is a bit far.

You won't name the diet, so we can make any kind of rational evaluation, and are making  sweeping statements about the impact.

I really don't know how to carry the conversation forward without specifics.

But I can say, virtually every strength athlete I know follows a paleo-type diet, they just pick the variant that fits them best. And they adjust their diet to fit their body.
 

Karen Smith

Level 6 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
Iron Maiden
I started Premade paleo about a month ago. Not 100% but in place of some of my eating out due to my busy schedule. The food takes good and is very quick to prepare...which I loved.
I am the lightest I have been in years. My heavy weight is about 128, normal about 124 and I weighed in this am at 121lb. Pretty sure my BF% is up. DOWN side - I know I have lost muscle/ strength. Which doesn't sit well with me....so back to the drawing board.

My strength is way more important to me than being light.
 

mhanch

Level 1 Valued Member
What is Premade Paleo? Is that pre packaged?

As I mentioned before, I'd recommend Whole 30. Just eat real food. it works wonders.
 

Karen Smith

Level 6 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
Iron Maiden
My orginial plan was to start Whole 30, and I found the link to www.premadepaleo on the whole 30 website. Figured it would make the process easier for me to start.  The food is good and quick to fix, it comes premade, packaged and you can either microwave or use skillet.

Then life and travel go in the way - so it wasn't 100% whole 30 or 100% paleo. ;)
 

mhanch

Level 1 Valued Member
Very cool. I'm not a big one for premade foods, but that looks pretty good.

When I was trying to lose weight, I was really strict, but now I try to be strict 80% of the time, and just do my best the rest of the time. My weight and BF% are stable, so that's good enough for me.
 

ideaman

Level 3 Valued Member
Right, got it. Total resistance to the idea that something DOESN'T work. As I said... many will shoot the messenger for the message, attack the irrelevant details, such as the label, etc. I tend to like to warn people so they don't get hurt rather than defending an ideology to the death. As I mentioned, it works for some, but not for everyone. I simply wanted to warn people of what can happen if it doesn't work for them.
 

mhanch

Level 1 Valued Member
Wrong Bill,

Total resistance to the idea that we can have a discussion without facts. If you are going to tell me that "System X", be it Diet, Lifting, Auto Tuning, whatever - doesn't work, then you have to define what "System X" is. Otherwise we aren't having a conversation.

There are plenty of "Paleo" diets that won't work, and plenty that will, on an individual basis. Since you aren't giving any details, I have to assume that you are telling the truth, and that this diet didn't work, but it's completely meaningless for conversation, as I have no idea what you did.

From the little that I could gather, it sounds like you were eating a Low Carb, Low Fat, High Protein diet. If so, then I would agree with you that that works for almost no one. But I don't actually know, so here we are.
 

ideaman

Level 3 Valued Member
Trasnform in 28, and yes, as I stated over and over in the thread, the basis was low carb, high protein. I jumped both the fat and the protein up considerably in an attempt to stick with the foundation of their philosophy. Intermittent fasting was also an integral part. Green Tea, plant-based protein for the shakes, etc were supposedly key. In essence, it follows the thinking from some of these whacked scientists (some have been referenced in this thread) that the body doesn't REALLY need carbs.

For my own personal well being, I should have stuck with the advice of great simplists (that a word?) like our wonderful Dan John, and said "no, that just doesn't make sense", and not done it. However I had what I thought was compelling evidence from others I know and trust that it did in fact work for them. One being someone very similar to me in workout ethic, training goals, etc. The last challenge saw an alleged 100% success rate. This one MUCH lower, as there were a few of us who went in with an already high degree of fitness, and not a truckload of fat to lose. Of course now I am doing what I also should have done, again following Dan's advice, and asking more and better follow-up questions of those it supposedly worked for. With the exception of 1 person now (haven't had chance to really dig in with him yet), I see why it either worked, or (most cases) it may not actually have worked, but they THINK it worked... failed to get one of the 2 scans, inconsistency with who was doing calliper measurements, and a myriad of other important details. But they fit into clothes, lost weight, etc and saw that as success.
 

aussieluke

Level 6 Valued Member
(Not for me to speak for Dan John but) I think Dan John would also tell you that meat, leaves and berries are pretty much the ideal diet for most people.

 

Sounds to me like the program didn't match your goals.
 

Chris Veilegaard

Level 2 Valued Member
bill i need to speak my mind now. you are wobbling on a fine line of just being a internet troll.

you are not the messenger about paleo you did some wierd variation that from what you a saying sounds like your local globo gym pt came up with.

if you read just a little bit about paleo by the people who practiced and studied it for decades then you would never have done what you did.

dont blame the system if you havent done it.

its like all these idiots out there teaching bad form kettlebells because its popular not because they know jack sh#t about teaching it.

it sounds like you did atkins with fasting mixed into it.

and i have respect for you for being able to do that for 28 day. i would have killed my trainer and eaten him after 5 days on that kind of diet.

and since you bring up Dan John i believe he advocates the meat leaves and berries. which from my understanding is similar or could be called a paleo-style diet.

what i understood of the whole think when i stated reading about this caveman stuff was that we all gotta listen to our body and eat what we all need not just what someone wrote in a book. i eat every meal till im full and the bulk of it being meat. as a side some starchy but mostly non starchy veggies. and i eat as much fruit as i feel like.

i do eat crazy mounts of food like you talked about in the begining. but to me thats okay because i like to eat good food and i dont feel heavy and sleepy after like i did before.

but hey you probably wont listen. trolls dont usually do. but this forum is for gentlemen and ladies not for bashing for the sake of bashing.
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
Chris, can't talk of this diet, any diet anyway, just curious, what is " every meals ", how many, for you.
I don't have any doubt on your knowledges in matter on paleo diet,I will be happy to have the guidelines, from you. Internet is not the quicker for me, find my answers.
I heard of this paleo diet for a while, and find all sorts of things.
Can't find anything in your post related to your training, my opinion, is that a diet is specific to everybody, and also, sports specifics.
Thanks you.
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
I also would like to know, the real goal of this diet ? Fat loss ? Training ?
Healph ?
Thank you
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
Chris, thank you for the link, but I am not certainly the only one on this forum, to know the basics guidelines and purpose of this paleo diet define.
I re- read all the posts, and didn't find anything precise.
Meat, leaf and berries...I don't know what does that mean...
Same as " every meals " and " till I am full " what is the quantity for you to be full ? And what do you consider as " good food ", went on your link, interesting, I know more about your training, still not in " paleo diet "
Thank you again for sharing.
 

mhanch

Level 1 Valued Member
Bill: looks like that diet was far more fat-loss focused (for those who are not athletic), and more Atkins-like than Paleo-like.

I still recommend trying something that is food-based, rather than shake based. The two I pointed out earlier are good starts, and they have all their basic information free online. It's worth a try.

 

Have fun!
 

ideaman

Level 3 Valued Member
Thanks. Actually ours was very food based once the detox was over. It would appear that in the case of 5 of us now... results still coming in... the premise of low carb, with a single "re-feed" once per week just didn't cut it. So far, 100% of those who have scanned have had greater than 50% muscle loss. Some people lost some fat too, others none. The goal was fat loss.

Now that I finally starting to eat "normal" again, but intelligent, I am beginning to return to normal. Respectable workout last night, but kept it light and "easy". Loaded up with spaghetti with meat sauce and salad last night, protein shake before workout this morning. Went in this morning thinking I would again take it easy, as I was using this week as a back off week... but then it happened... the real me stopped by for a visit, the mojo teased me with a little umph, and I couldn't help myself... smashed out a great workout & was hungry for more. Felt great, but did the wise thing and walked away, relishing a long-awaited good workout that was actually fueled.
 
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